You are NOT bothering ATC. Students read this.

SixPapaCharlie

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In March, AggieMike arranged a tour of ft. worth Center.
I posted a write-up at student pilot but didn't post it here.
I just saw a post where someone thought they were putting ATC out by talking to them.

At any rate, there may be some experts that want to change some of this but I did the tour and this was my takeaway. What I learned not only busted a few myths but has changed my flying moving forward.

Thoughts I had prior to this tour:

1. I am annoying them requesting Flight following
2. They don’t really want to deal with me, it is just a courtesy
3. I should only request it if my flight is longer than X miles
4. I can’t get flight following unless I am going from point A to Point B meaning they can’t assist while I am just practicing
5. This is a few people in a tower and I am increasing their workload

I will address why ALL of those are wrong but first, what is Flight following? Or more importantly Who are they?
If I am leaving my field, I can call center frequency and if they are not busy, they will help.
So who are “they”?

Closest one to me is Ft. Worth Center. Ft worth center is a building about 5 miles south of DFW airport. When you walk in, it looks like a movie set, something out of CSI or a submarine movie. It is dark. They work with the lights off and it is rows and rows of computers like you wouldn’t believe. I don’t care where you work. Your company server room has nothing on these guys.
happy0159.gif


Along with these machines are rows and rows of stations consisting of several screens at each station there are between 1 and 3 people working. Each station is responsible for a specific chunk of airspace for a specific altitude.

So how many people are watching this section of airspace for us?
350! (this will vary from location to location, but WAY more resources than I ever imagined)

The Fort Worth Air Route Traffic Control Center (ZFW) is a typical ARTCC. The Center has approximately 350 controllers. The airspace is broken up into 42 sections with between 1 and 3 people watching each section for enroute traffic and there are more watching for weather and other aviation related tasks.

There are 18 low altitude sectors.
There are 7 Intermediate Altitude Sectors.
There are 16 High Altitude Sectors
There is 1 Ultra High Altitude Sector

Each of these has portions monitored by multiple people. This is for enroute traffic advisories, and there are a whole additional group of people focused on weather, military, refueling ops, and just about any other activity along the aviation spectrum. It is a lot of people watching out for us.


Myths busted:

I AM ANNOYING THEM REQUESTING FLIGHT FOLLOWING.
Guess what. Even if we are not talking to them, we are already on their radar screen. They are dealing with us whether we get flight following or not. The problem is that if we DON’T talk to them, they know very little about us. It is more annoying for us to be on their radar and they not know who we are then it is to see us on the radar and have all of our info.

Without FF they see: random plane, squawking 1200, altitude, climbing/descending.

With FF, they have tail number, Alt, airspeed, origin, destination, aircraft type, and time to hand off. If you provide your intended heading, that will appear to and they can anticipate where you will be at a given point in time. If we file a flight plan, there is a ton more info for them

They also have this ability to click a button that shows where all planes will be in 1, 2, 5, and 8 minutes to detect possible collisions given current direction and rate of flight.

So to point 1 we are not annoying them, we are helping them because they know our intentions, and what our aircraft is capable of. By getting flight following, WE are helping THEM.



THEY DON’T REALLY WANT TO DEAL WITH ME, IT IS JUST A COURTESY
Wrong. They told us straight out that this is not true. They would rather be talking to us than not. And they don’t like to use the word Courtesy because they stated they are not “doing us a favor” but rather “we are all using the system to benefit one another. “

If there is an emergency and they need to free up some people, the VFR Flight following pilots may be terminated so resources can be shifted but they are not sitting there thinking “Oh crap, I have to deal with this VFR traffic *sigh*”

It is the opposite, they are thinking “Crap, this guy is not talking to us and I don’t know what he is planning. I wish he would contact us”

The gentleman leading the tour said he can’t count the times there is an audible sigh in the room when 2 VFR planes are on a collision course with one another and not talking to ATC and they just watch and hold their breath until they see the planes come out the other side of one another. They alluded to the fact that they have seen some not end well.


I SHOULD ONLY REQUEST FF IF MY FLIGHT IS LONGER THAN X MILES

Wrong. There is no minimum flight distance that warrants flight following more than another.
Per Ft. Worth ATC: “Unless you are staying in the pattern, please call us up and get flight following.”
I always used this mythical number I pulled out of the air of 50 miles. If it was less than 50, I wouldn’t bother ATC. They said there is no such minimum flight distance. “You are on the radar, so tell us who you are and where you are going.”


I CAN’T GET FLIGHT FOLLOWING UNLESS I AM GOING FROM POINT A TO POINT B.
THEY CAN’T ASSIST WHILE I AM PRACTICING MANEUVERS.

Wrong. If we are out maneuvering / practicing, etc, we are just as entitled to usage of the ATC system as the Boeing 757 headed across the U.S
However the phrasing is slightly different.
Instead of saying: “Request Flight Following”
Say: “Request Traffic Advisories”

When we are done, we need to let them know we are returning to the airport and once we have the field in sight, request radar service termination or they will terminate.



THERE ARE A FEW PEOPLE IN A TOWER AND I AM INCREASING THEIR WORKLOAD

Wrong. There are a HUGE number of people ready to help us fly safely. We are not making their job more difficult, or putting them out in any way by requesting flight following.



So I just wanted to pass this along in case there were others like me that thought FF was a burden or it should only be used for certain trips based on time or distance, etc. They said not to do that.

I think it is the equivalent of saying "well this is just a small mine field so I don't need my metal detector"

So if you don't want to use it because you don't want to, that is fine but if you don't want to use it because you think somehow your mission isn't important, long, or far enough, phooey! call em up. If you don't want to use it because you feel like you are stressing out their work load, call em up. If they are overstressed and can't handle it, they will deny. After that tour, I will be calling center upon departing the pattern moving forward because anytime I hadn't got FF it was due to apprehension based on the above concerns.

Hope this helps at least a little for any other students or new pilots that have misconceptions about getting flight following.


Just for a visual (photos not allowed on our tour)
Rows and Rows and Rows of this:

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Good write up and sums up how 99.99% of controllers feel on a daily basis.
 
Nice write up! Agree with all you have said. Touring a tower/ARTCC is a great thing to do, really is eyeopening and well worth the time and effort.

Gary
 
My local ATC facility is bothered by my calls. They tell me so explicitly.
 
Q:

Near controlled airspace, why center instead of approach?

For the tour or the write up and info?


For the tour, that was the folks I made connection with (zfwtours@gmail.com). I didn't research a tour connection for Regional Approach.

Center was just as interesting since we not only got to see the "big sector" controllers in action, but also got to talk with the guys who are monitoring overall flow and are poised to help deal with things when it goes TU.

Quite a bit goes on behind the scenes to aid in flow. More than we ever knew before we did the tour.
 
I would like to add that ATC is not only very willing to help us VFR pilots but *usually* very tolerant of mistakes. I should know - I've made my share of mistakes while learning the busy SoCal airspace!
 
Most controllers are helpful, I agree.

I once heard a SoCal controller decline services to an aircraft because his accent was so thick, he could not be understood. Frankly, I don't blame the controller.
 
I know. This is mainly directed at new pilots / students that like myself were led to believe somehow that FF was a favor that ATC didn't really want to mess with.

As a student I recall talking to other students and having conversations about how "I only get FF if it is more than about 50 miles" or under some other condition for fear of bothering them.

I used to never use it because I felt this way. Going on that tour changed my perception a great deal.
 
I've always been a fan of using ATC services. Sure, you get the jerk ones from time to time, but mostly they're all friendly and helpful if you return the favor. Up here in Chicago at approach control I'll get the occasional jerk, and to him I reply, "I'm just trying to help you out!"... that usually softens them up. They almost never take a flight following hand-off (inbound) though.

A student should never be afraid to talk to them - they're there for the pilots, it's not the other way around.

-Andrew
 
Had the controllers from Tampa and Sarasota ,to a meet the controllers night. Was great talking to them. You would be surprised what can be accomplished with some one on one time.
 
Most controllers are helpful, I agree.

I once heard a SoCal controller decline services to an aircraft because his accent was so thick, he could not be understood. Frankly, I don't blame the controller.

Probably the guy we have out of TOA. Can't tell if his accent is French or Spanish it's so thick :)
 
The pilots accent was thick, not the controller's.
 
Yep, one time departing RIC (class C) I told them I just wanted to exit to the north. They asked what my destination was, and I told them I was going to IAD but we were going to circle Kings Dominion (local theme park) for the benefit of the kids. They told me that was fine, they'd still give me flight following.

My initial call to departure after takeoff.

27K: Richmond Departure Navion 5327K 1200 climbing 3000.
RIC: 5327K Radar Contact report Kings Dominion in sight.
 
Q:

Near controlled airspace, why center instead of approach?

What do you consider "controlled airspace" to be?

If you're in airspace that's under the jurisdiction of an ARTCC you call Center. If you're in airspace that's under the jurisdiction of a TRACON or equivalent you call Approach.
 
This was a great read! I had a few of those preconceived notions, and your write up just fixed that nonsense!

Perception is a funny thing, and that helped a lot.

:thumbsup:
 
What do you consider "controlled airspace" to be?

If you're in airspace that's under the jurisdiction of an ARTCC you call Center. If you're in airspace that's under the jurisdiction of a TRACON or equivalent you call Approach.


I am usually handed off to approach on departure.
Sometimes I am handed to departure on departure and sometimes I am handed to departure on approach.

Its always 118.1
 
The pilots accent was thick, not the controller's.


HAHAHA!!!!!

That would be some funny siht right there

"I am unable to provide you separation services today. My English is a little weak" :goofy:
 
Great write up. I would add that anyone who can find a way to visit an ATC facility should take advantage. Like 6PC and a few others here my eyes were opened after the visit. Bottom line to what I think I have learned, and this reinforces, is most controllers would rather be talking to you than not.
 
You got it mixed up.

Good [original] post, 6PC.

Thanks. I'm trying to get back to a 75/25 ratio of flying/nonsense postings and this seemed important.

That said, I am still sitting on a "This week on POA" that I need to wrap up.
 
Ok here's a question, if your flight is going to be sightseeing and you don't really even have a specific route in mind, you just want to kind of fly around and go check out anything that looks interesting what's the correct way to handle that?

You just call up, ask for flight following and tell them you're sightseeing in the general area? Always assumed this would work but never tried it.
 
Ok here's a question, if your flight is going to be sightseeing and you don't really even have a specific route in mind, you just want to kind of fly around and go check out anything that looks interesting what's the correct way to handle that?

You just call up, ask for flight following and tell them you're sightseeing in the general area? Always assumed this would work but never tried it.

That works.
 
Ok here's a question, if your flight is going to be sightseeing and you don't really even have a specific route in mind, you just want to kind of fly around and go check out anything that looks interesting what's the correct way to handle that?

You just call up, ask for flight following and tell them you're sightseeing in the general area? Always assumed this would work but never tried it.

center, cessna 123
practicing maneuvers, 4,500, request traffic advisories

That is what I have done. It hasn't happened to me but I have heard sometimes when you do this they will give you a block that is all yours.

My experience so far is it s just like being on ff.

If you are practicing steep turns maybe you will hear "traffic 2 miles out at your 2 O' clock, 3 O' clock 4 O' clock, 5 O' clock" :)

As far as just sight seeing, I haven't really done that as I tend to go to airports but I have heard pilots say they want advisories while circling for photos or looking at something specific in the area
 
Great write up Bryan...:thumbsup:..


This question is for MarkZ, Steven and any other controllers here....

Jackson does not have radar in the cab, but the BI-6 signal is sent back to ZSLC 200 miles away..

If I pick a slow day and slow time, can I program my GPS with various waypoints to spell out BEN.. Or maybe even N801BH.. Get FF with a good code number.. Seems all the ones with 1000 /0000 will not get picked up on flightaware...

So, Off I go to a place out of the traffic area and clear of any incoming and outgoing flights and I stay low, but high enough to still get transponder hits and proceed to draw a note in the sky like Boeing did with the 787....

1-.. Will I pizz off the controllers for that request?

2- Do I really need a code above 2000 ?

3- Has anyone else done this besides Boeing ?

Thanks in advance...

Ben..
 
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Great write up Bryan...:thumbsup:..


This question is for MarkZ, Steven and any other controllers here....

Jackson does not have radar in the cab, but the BI-6 signal is sent back to ZSLC 200 miles away..

If I pick a slow day and slow time, can I program my GPS with various waypoints to spell out BEN.. Or maybe even N801BH.. Get FF with a good code number.. Seems all the ones with 1000 /0000 will not get picked up on flightaware...

So, Off I go to a place out of the traffic area and clear of any incoming and outgoing flights and I stay low, but high enough to still get transponder hits and proceed to draw a note in the sky like Boeing did with the 787....

1-.. Will I pizz of the controllers for that request?

2- Do I really need a code above 2000 ?

3- Has anyone else done this besides Boeing ?

Thanks in advance...

Ben..


I tired to spell something once but I overestimated the distance at which I would get bored.

I have secretly wanted to post a contest on here to see who can "draw" or spell the most outlandish thing on flight aware. I suspect it will devolve into who can fly the biggest wang pattern at some point though.
 
I tired to spell something once but I overestimated the distance at which I would get bored.

I have secretly wanted to post a contest on here to see who can "draw" or spell the most outlandish thing on flight aware. I suspect it will devolve into who can fly the biggest wang pattern at some point though.

Well, that is fine. I guess if you had two planes acting in coordination you could get rather creative.

Seriously though, thanks for the write-up. Just got back from my first flight out of the local area without requesting flight following. Wanted to see how it felt really. I did file a flight plan, knowing that is quite a bit less protective. It was a pretty flight though. A 100 nm loop that took me over some snow-covered mountains. Next time I'll give Center a ring.
 
It will also exponentially speed up your radio proficiency versus using CTAF and Towered fields.
 
If I am using VFR flight following. 1. Will they hand me off to approach if they have my destination? 2. Will flight following automatically terminate when I am handed off to approach, land, and turn the aircraft off or should I be cancelling flight following while still flying?
 
If I am using VFR flight following. 1. Will they hand me off to approach if they have my destination? 2. Will flight following automatically terminate when I am handed off to approach, land, and turn the aircraft off or should I be cancelling flight following while still flying?

They will hand you off to approach

It does not terminate when handed off, approach just takes over. You will still be squawking but now talking to approach.

If you land at a non towered fields, they will ask you to tell them when you have the field in sight. Once you tell them you have the field, they will let you know if there are any aircraft between you and the field and have you squawk 1200 and approve frequency change.

There is not a lot for you to initiate on FF they tend to handle it all and tell you what to do. Once in a blue moon, they may forget about you and you may pipe up and ask if you need to change freq. or something but that isn't likely.

At any point during your flight, you can say "I wish to cancel FF" if you like but you are never required to do so.
 
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That really is a good post. I use ff when I go x/c and don't file, but usually do my circuit of practice vfr approaches and such without. That's going to change.

Thanks.
 
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