Xyla Foxlin and the FAA Medial Wing

Sierra1

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Sierra1
Interesting video bringing some of the current issues many are experiencing. More people hearing the message maybe can get some further movement in the right direction for those experiencing the joys of the FAA medical division. It’ll be interesting to see the journey for her.

 
Sort of a sad tale and I just don't understand not letting the third class expire and fly as a Sport Pilot. But we all probably sometimes do things viewed as irrational by others. She probably can jump through the hoops and get that magical SI after years and $$$ and move on if she really wants to.
 
Sort of a sad tale and I just don't understand not letting the third class expire and fly as a Sport Pilot. But we all probably sometimes do things viewed as irrational by others. She probably can jump through the hoops and get that magical SI after years and $$$ and move on if she really wants to.
She learned to fly in 2020, and she's young enough that she'd be on the 5-year plan for a third class medical.

But, she spoke up about some mental health issues she had as a result of getting her IUD replaced, and someone downloaded that video and reported her to the FAA. So she wasn't trying to get a new medical, she just had someone drop a dime on her, after she was better, and now she can't fly. Probably some jackwagon who thinks girls shouldn't fly.
 
In general, the FAA seems to take a dim view of this Youtuber-as-celebrity-pilot phenomenon.
 
In general, the FAA seems to take a dim view of this Youtuber-as-celebrity-pilot phenomenon.
As discussed on a previous thread about her, she's not an aviation YouTuber. In fact, I think this is only her third video about aviation at all: She made one about buying her airplane (C140), one about flying it to Oshkosh last summer, and this one.

Her channel is about making stuff. She builds various things out of various materials in her shop and/or with friends. She also is involved in high-powered rocketry and has had several videos about building and launching her rockets. It's really good content, and I enjoy it a lot.
 
I hope she has an impact. Can’t make it any worse.

By the way, how do you get a grant to build a Pietenpol? I can’t figure that one out at all. Who do you get to pay for that and why would they?
 
…Probably some jackwagon who thinks girls shouldn't fly.
Apparently, she has a history of another woman creating havoc in her life.


 
. . . . how do you get a grant to build a Pietenpol? I can’t figure that one out at all. Who do you get to pay for that and why would they?
You ask people for money. They'd contribute because they know you, they trust you, they are impressed by your proposal, and / or because they can use the tax write off that is a part of your proposal.

Before I bought a minority share in my airplane from an experienced owner, I put together a proposal to form an LLC and buy a Cub as an investment. I think that the numbers were rock solid . . . BUT . . . that experience taught me how much that I did not know about airplane ownership . . . and by extension how much I would have to pay others.
 
You ask people for money. They'd contribute because they know you, they trust you, they are impressed by your proposal, and / or because they can use the tax write off that is a part of your proposal.

Before I bought a minority share in my airplane from an experienced owner, I put together a proposal to form an LLC and buy a Cub as an investment. I think that the numbers were rock solid . . . BUT . . . that experience taught me how much that I did not know about airplane ownership . . . and by extension how much I would have to pay others.
What you are describing does not sound like a grant.
 
What you are describing does not sound like a grant.
I wasn't writing a grant proposal. My plan was that everyone would make money. But it is the same process.

Figure out your goals, figure out who has the ability to fund your goals, figure out what their goals are. Collect accurate data. Double check your data. Write a clear and concise plan that addresses their goals. (I am not suggesting that you act as if you are not benefiting, just that you don't focus on yourself. Everyone should be acting in their own self-interest.)

Practice delivering the proposal, figure out likely questions and prepare answers. Never forget that you are selling yourself, your knowledge and trustworthiness more than your proposal.
 
I wasn't writing a grant proposal. My plan was that everyone would make money. But it is the same process.

Figure out your goals, figure out who has the ability to fund your goals, figure out what their goals are. Collect accurate data. Double check your data. Write a clear and concise plan that addresses their goals. (I am not suggesting that you act as if you are not benefiting, just that you don't focus on yourself. Everyone should be acting in their own self-interest.)

Practice delivering the proposal, figure out likely questions and prepare answers. Never forget that you are selling yourself, your knowledge and trustworthiness more than your proposal.
I think you're missing my point, but I appreciate your enthusiasm.
 
I love the, "You might have an untreated suicidal pilot," trope, as though anyone would want a treated suicidal pilot. I know I wouldn't.

Most of the youtuber's premises are false, but setting all that aside, in her individual case, we're talking about someone diagnosed with major depressive disorder who sought treatment for mental illness that debilitated her for a year, and publicly expressed a desire to hide it from the FAA. She's hardly the poster child for bringing those with minor issues in from the cold.

Histrionic Personality Disorder:
For people with histrionic personality disorder, their self-esteem depends on the approval of others and doesn’t come from a true feeling of self-worth. They have an overwhelming desire to be noticed and often behave dramatically or inappropriately to get attention.

People with histrionic personality disorder often don’t realize their behavior and way of thinking may be problematic.
Nah, that could never be an issue for someone who lives her life for clicks. And contrary to her claim, "histrionic" and "hysteria" have different etymologies. (Not that I think this alone should necessarily be grounding.)
 
I hope she has an impact. Can’t make it any worse.

By the way, how do you get a grant to build a Pietenpol? I can’t figure that one out at all. Who do you get to pay for that and why would they?

Looks like she got $100K to produce a YouTube documentary on the process from the Independent Media Initiative. :o

I did notice that Destin Sandlin from Smarter Every Day was on the committee. His channel is fantastic - Extremely interesting content, and he has gotten inside some places that are difficult to get into!

Apparently, she has a history of another woman creating havoc in her life.


Wow... That's crazy. https://medium.com/1517/beauty-and-the-invisible-beast-c2a8d771e467

I love the, "You might have an untreated suicidal pilot," trope, as though anyone would want a treated suicidal pilot. I know I wouldn't.
Treated means no longer suicidal. Obviously if they can't treat it to that point, you still don't let them fly. But pilots know that even the slightest thing is going to get them into a world of hurt, so they hide it instead of getting treated.

And it's not like the current system is preventing things. I think the main reason we haven't had a US airliner go down due to a suicide is luck, with a side of always having a second person in the cockpit. But foreign medical standards are also stringent (in fact usually more so), and so far we've managed to kill 943 innocent people with suicidal airline pilots between 1982 and 2022.
Most of the youtuber's premises are false
Do tell.

in her individual case, we're talking about someone diagnosed with major depressive disorder who sought treatment for mental illness that debilitated her for a year, and publicly expressed a desire to hide it from the FAA.
... Because it was, by nature, temporary, but the FAA doesn't give a crap, they will make your life miserable PERMANENTLY.

Histrionic Personality Disorder:

Nah, that could never be an issue for someone who lives her life for clicks. And contrary to her claim, "histrionic" and "hysteria" have different etymologies. (Not that I think this alone should necessarily be grounding.)
It's not just etymology.

Currently, most physicians do not accept hysteria as a medical diagnosis. The blanket diagnosis of hysteria has been fragmented into myriad medical categories such as epilepsy, histrionic personality disorder, conversion disorders, dissociative disorders, or other medical conditions.​
​
Traits such as extravagance, vanity, and seductiveness of hysteria have similar qualities to women diagnosed with HPD.​

What isn't clear is where the line is or should be drawn between "mental disorder" and "old white man who doesn't think women or minorities should fly". Frankly, while she does fit the basic description of HPD, pretty much every pilot and every YouTuber does!
 
As discussed on a previous thread about her, she's not an aviation YouTuber. In fact, I think this is only her third video about aviation at all: She made one about buying her airplane (C140), one about flying it to Oshkosh last summer, and this one.

Her channel is about making stuff. She builds various things out of various materials in her shop and/or with friends. She also is involved in high-powered rocketry and has had several videos about building and launching her rockets. It's really good content, and I enjoy it a lot.
“…previous thread…?” Link ??
 
…What isn't clear is where the line is or should be drawn between "mental disorder" and "old white man who doesn't think women or minorities should fly".
Well, that’s what mental health practitioners are for. Keep in mind, the FAA doesn’t diagnose. From a regulatory perspective, the FAA can only investigate a complaint and, if found substantive, take certificate action.

The system isn’t perfect, but the FAA didn’t start this and we only have one side of the story.
 
And if all she did was go to counseling, that's a yawner and we issue the cert. The youtube is leaving something out....
What she admits is that she was diagnosed with major depressive disorder, treated by a psychiatrist, debilitated for a year, is still in therapy (maybe a yawn, maybe not), and was denied by the FAA after a full HIMS psych eval.

Whatever anyone thinks about the process, she went through all of it. So this is about the outcome and we don't have enough info (nor should we) to decide whether we agree with the outcome.
 
Food for thought: I see many parallels between depression and alcohol use with regard to flying “qualification”.

We’ve seen a lot of conversations on here about alcohol misadventures and how the FAA addresses them. Some people get upset with the process and “conservatism” of the FAA with regard to heavy drinking. Yet I think few of us push back too hard on the 8-hour rule even though many probably personally believe we’d be safe to fly with just one beer or glass of wine.

Virtually everyone gets depressed to some degree at some point. As with the 8-hour rule, if we are aware our distraction because of the loss of a loved one or a job change or whatever may impact our flying, we know we should “self-ground” until we’re in a better frame of mind. More or less like if we had a beer at lunch.

Alcohol use and depression are both on a continuum (both in quantity and frequency) from none through low likelihood of impact to impairment. The FAA’s job is to protect the public from aviation-related issues. Yes, they’re conservative (and I don’t think it’s because they don’t want to get sued, as she says) and they DO make adjustments along the way (such as SSRIs and even Basic Med).

Understandably, those subject to the consequences of apparently being on the high side of the continuum think the system is broken. Then again, there are people who swear they’re OK to drive after a lot of drinking.

Can the system be improved? Absolutely. But the cost of being conservative is to impact a relative handful of people (who, by the way, at least have a potential way forward in most cases, albeit expensive). The cost of being lenient can kill lots of innocents.

Again, just food for thought.
 
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I think she’s exaggerating a bit about other pilots, too. I agree that some change is needed at the FAA, but some people can go through incredibly difficult situations and maintain levels of competence, sanity, etc. without needing therapy or other treatment. Lord knows how many airline pilots or the rest of us have gone through frustrating and messy divorces, family crisis, financial stressors, or other huge life things while flying safely and maintaining the necessary focus.
 
And if all she did was go to counseling, that's a yawner and we issue the cert. The youtube is leaving something out....
“Yawner” experiences are tough to monetize on social media…;)
 
I think she’s exaggerating a bit about other pilots, too. I agree that some change is needed at the FAA, but some people can go through incredibly difficult situations and maintain levels of competence, sanity, etc. without needing therapy or other treatment. Lord knows how many airline pilots or the rest of us have gone through frustrating and messy divorces, family crisis, financial stressors, or other huge life things while flying safely and maintaining the necessary focus.
Simply having been to therapy is definitely a red herring if you're looking for suicidal people. It just has way more stigma attached to it than there is any evidence for. The old "Everyone can probably use a little therapy" canard is probably more true than not.
 
I think she’s exaggerating a bit about other pilots, too. I agree that some change is needed at the FAA, but some people can go through incredibly difficult situations and maintain levels of competence, sanity, etc. without needing therapy or other treatment. Lord knows how many airline pilots or the rest of us have gone through frustrating and messy divorces, family crisis, financial stressors, or other huge life things while flying safely and maintaining the necessary focus.



Everyone handles things differently, and there is so much that we don't know. Some people may lose focus and not have their head in the game when going through tough times. Some others may become laser focused on the task at hand simply to use it as a distraction from the tough times they are experiencing. That's not really saying it's a good time to be responsible for the lives of others, but that may also be when they are at their absolute individual best. We have a lot to learn, and until we do, I don't blame the FAA for being a bit over-conservative.
 
Food for thought: I see many parallels between depression and alcohol use with regard to flying “qualification”.

We’ve seen a lot of conversations on here about alcohol misadventures and how the FAA addresses them. Some people get upset with the process and “conservatism” of the FAA with regard to heavy drinking. Yet I think few of us push back too hard on the 8-hour rule even though many probably personally believe we’d be safe to fly with just one beer or glass of wine.

Virtually everyone gets depressed to some degree at some point. As with the 8-hour rule, if we are aware our distraction because of the loss of a loved one or a job change or whatever may impact our flying, we know we should “self-ground” until we’re in a better frame of mind. More or less like if we had a beer at lunch.

Alcohol use and depression are both on a continuum (both in quantity and frequency) from none through low likelihood of impact to impairment. The FAA’s job is to protect the public from aviation-related issues. Yes, they’re conservative (and I don’t think it’s because they don’t want to get sued, as she says) and they DO make adjustments along the way (such as SSRIs and even Basic Med).

Understandably, those subject to the consequences of apparently being on the high side of the continuum think the system is broken. Then again, there are people who swear they’re OK to drive after a lot of drinking.

Can the system be improved? Absolutely. But the cost of being conservative is to impact a relative handful of people (who, by the way, at least have a potential way forward in most cases, albeit expensive). The cost of being lenient can kill lots of innocents.

Again, just food for thought.

There is one HUGE difference. Alcohol has killed NO ONE in part 121 aviation. Zero. Precious little involvement in 135 or even GA.

Suicidal pilots have killed HUNDREDS.

I see no reason to be so conservative when there isn’t actually a problem. Hell, an inability to simply set power and attitude has killed hundreds in part 121.

Ironically, HIMS has killed more than it’s saved….
 
We’ve seen a lot of conversations on here about alcohol misadventures and how the FAA addresses them. Some people get upset with the process and “conservatism” of the FAA with regard to heavy drinking. Yet I think few of us push back too hard on the 8-hour rule even though many probably personally believe we’d be safe to fly with just one beer or glass of wine.
Like many of us I used to figure that I'd be fine after a single beer. This was years ago -- early this century. We had a family event going on, I'd had a beer, and about half an hour later we needed something small from the store. I hopped on the motorcycle for the five-minute trip. As I was making the left out of our neighborhood, it suddenly became very apparent to me that I had absolutely no business on that machine at that moment. Might not have noticed it in a car, but on the bike it was a lesson very quickly learned. No mishap and I'm sure I was well under the legal BAC limit, but in that moment I realized that was not up to snuff. Since that time my policy is -- once the can or bottle gets opened, I'm done with vehicles and power tools for the day, period.

Understandably, those subject to the consequences of apparently being on the high side of the continuum think the system is broken. Then again, there are people who swear they’re OK to drive after a lot of drinking.
As we have pointed out to our kids -- especially the one who had a long history of alcohol and substance abuse which by the grace of the Almighty seems to be behind him -- the very first thing most people lose when they start drinking is any decent judgment they might normally have. Zero to full Dunning-Kruger in one drink, in some cases.
 
Which really makes ya wonder about texting and driving. ZERO loss of judgement yet still happens, same consequence.

Why would the faa let someone THAT stupid operate an aircraft?
 
Which really makes ya wonder about texting and driving. ZERO loss of judgement yet still happens, same consequence.

Why would the faa let someone THAT stupid operate an aircraft?
I would argue that texting while operating a vehicle (I wouldn't call what most of them do "driving") is in itself evidence of poor judgment, just not brought on by drugs or alcohol.
 
Treated means no longer suicidal. Obviously if they can't treat it to that point, you still don't let them fly. But pilots know that even the slightest thing is going to get them into a world of hurt, so they hide it instead of getting treated.
Bring suicidal isn't "the slightest thing " So what's the point of this always being brought up in these discussions? I think we all agree that suicidal pilots, treated or not, shouldn't fly--at a minimum--until they're treated to the point of cured. So what should the FAA change in order to encourage suicidal pilots who currently avoid treatment for great of losing there medicals? Tell them that as long as they're in treatment they can fly? Tell them they won't have to jump through any hoops to get back in the air once they say they're "better"? Both sound like terrible ideas, so what then?

The suicidal pilot SHOULD be grounded. If he avoids treatment or lies about it to avoid being grounded, how is that the FAA's fault?

The whole "you might have a suicidal pilot and not know it" thing is actually an argument for MORE FAA scrutiny of reportedly health pilots.
 
Bring suicidal isn't "the slightest thing " So what's the point of this always being brought up in these discussions? I think we all agree that suicidal pilots, treated or not, shouldn't fly--at a minimum--until they're treated to the point of cured. So what should the FAA change in order to encourage suicidal pilots who currently avoid treatment for great of losing there medicals? Tell them that as long as they're in treatment they can fly? Tell them they won't have to jump through any hoops to get back in the air once they say they're "better"? Both sound like terrible ideas, so what then?

The suicidal pilot SHOULD be grounded. If he avoids treatment or lies about it to avoid being grounded, how is that the FAA's fault?

The whole "you might have a suicidal pilot and not know it" thing is actually an argument for MORE FAA scrutiny of reportedly health pilots.
Everybody says to have a backup plan in case you lose your medical, but apparently nobody does.
 
Everybody says to have a backup plan in case you lose your medical, but apparently nobody does.
Or maybe those that do, are also less likely to end up needing to? Just maybe. I know that if I ever lost my medical I could probably still hire a commercial pilot to keep doing aerial photography.
 
Did you look through all 25,000 of you posts? :)
Um, no. But I looked through what I thought was enough to find it!

Maybe it got closed and hidden by the MC. Yeah, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. ;)

Bring suicidal isn't "the slightest thing " So what's the point of this always being brought up in these discussions? I think we all agree that suicidal pilots, treated or not, shouldn't fly--at a minimum--until they're treated to the point of cured. So what should the FAA change in order to encourage suicidal pilots who currently avoid treatment for great of losing there medicals? Tell them that as long as they're in treatment they can fly? Tell them they won't have to jump through any hoops to get back in the air once they say they're "better"? Both sound like terrible ideas, so what then?
Maybe allow for simple talk therapy for lesser issues without grounding them and making them jump through a zillion hoops and spend many thousands of dollars to prove themselves worthy, all while being grounded for years.

The suicidal pilot SHOULD be grounded. If he avoids treatment or lies about it to avoid being grounded, how is that the FAA's fault?
Because maybe that pilot wouldn't have gotten anywhere close to suicidal if they could have had easy access to mental health care early on without risking their career.

The whole "you might have a suicidal pilot and not know it" thing is actually an argument for MORE FAA scrutiny of reportedly health pilots.
I think the only way you could have more is if you made ALL pilots get a mental health evaluation every renewal, and that would bring the entire system grinding to a halt.

Everybody says to have a backup plan in case you lose your medical, but apparently nobody does.
Finding a job that pays what most pro pilots get paid these days is not trivial, no matter how good your backup plans are.

Not to mention, it's not just about the money. The idea of not being able to fly, to me, feels like not being able to eat. Every so often, I've just gotta get the heck off the ground. My happy place is in the left seat.
 
The suicidal pilot SHOULD be grounded. If he avoids treatment or lies about it to avoid being grounded, how is that the FAA's fault?
A suicidal pilot should be grounded, yes, but what about the person who had, and a doctor noted, a brief suicidal thought 5 years ago while going through a difficult time and has had no trouble since?
Everybody says to have a backup plan in case you lose your medical, but apparently nobody does.
My backup plan was flying LSAs as a Sport Pilot.
Maybe allow for simple talk therapy for lesser issues without grounding them and making them jump through a zillion hoops and spend many thousands of dollars to prove themselves worthy, all while being grounded for years.
In many cases the problem is that the doctor has to enter a diagnosis in order for insurance to pay for that therapy. In Xyla's case, "histrionic personality" is less of a "disorder" and more of a career skill.

And yes, I have seen the adverse personality effects of birth control hormones on women close to me, effects that stopped when the hormones were discontinued. I never knew that IUDs released hormones, though.
 
I never knew that IUDs released hormones, though.
Some do, some don't. Some use pH (eg. copper) as a secondary. Plus, just for fun, there are hormone disrupting chemical compounds (like BpA) in plasticizers.
 
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