Worst Flight I've Ever Flown - Many Mistakes

azure said:
And truth be known, many owners don't fly all that much because either they've sunk most of their disposable income in the fixed ownership costs, or the plane is down for weeks on end for maintenance, and the result is the same: skills get rusty.

Though my experience has been a bit luckier. I've managed to log over 250 hours in my plane since I bought it two years ago.
Click to expand...

You're doing far better than I. I've consistently flown my aircraft roughly 50 hours a year since I started. Finances and weather. The latter often doesn't cooperate when one wants to fly. One of the reasons I keep having to drive to fly-ins.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
You may all change your tune after seeing this. A picture is worth a thousand words, never thought I'd use Cloud Ahoy against me. Kind of hard to follow but you get the idea (chaos until straight in):

6962263748_c4b935d312_b.jpg
Click to expand...

What I see in that picture is a pilot getting the lay of the land before committing to a landing. I call that good judgement. A bad pilot would land before she was ready.

And the fact that you self-critique and see a need for improvement is another positive sign.
 
Just have to talk to BF tonight, pretty sure I have a plane and CFI scheduled for this weekend. Expensive, but at a new (towered!) airport which will be "good" for me. Very near two "difficult" small airports too and even Booneville though I don't personally see the need to go that far away.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Exactly right. Even if a tie down or hangar was only $200 and insurance was only $100 that is $300 per month. Solo in my 150 I could get 3 hours which is a 1 hour flight almost every weekend.

So renting is for me.
Click to expand...
On the other hand, shared ownership can cut the costs quite a bit. The cheapest flying I ever did was as a non-equity partner in a friend's plane. Right now with airplane values dropping, non-equity partnership might well be the least expensive way to go.

Of course that only works in your favor if the bird isn't a maintenance pig. If it is, then you're back to renting to scratch your flying itch.
 
azure said:
On the other hand, shared ownership can cut the costs quite a bit. The cheapest flying I ever did was as a non-equity partner in a friend's plane. Right now with airplane values dropping, non-equity partnership might well be the least expensive way to go.

Of course that only works in your favor if the bird isn't a maintenance pig. If it is, then you're back to renting to scratch your flying itch.
Click to expand...

I doubt this could be cheaper than $0 - what I am saying is that there has been a month where I didn't have any extra money. I am getting "club" prices now without paying monthly dues. I can't "sign up" for any monthly anything.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
A couple of notes on this:

1. I do not think the two or three CFI's that I have had so far are "right" for me. I met a GREAT CFI who I really like, but he is at another airport. He gave a presentation on safety / fatal accidents / the causes - and I talked to him in private after the show. He seemed like the kind of person I would want if I get back and do more ratings. Problem is he flies out of another airport whose planes are more expensive. Not sure if they have 172's there. After posting this I decided to email him today to see if we could meet to discuss my concerns this weekend. Ground only but it is better than nothing. Perhaps I will realize that paying a few more dollars to go somewhere else in a similar plane is "good enough" and I don't have to fly my exact 172 to see the benefits. I have no plans of switching airports or schools since I get the best prices and service in the area.
Click to expand...

This is touchy with insurance and what-not, but directly ask him if he'd be willing to talk to your club about being listed as a CFI on their insurance, etc. It probably won't work these days with dwindling student starts and competition, as well as insurance complications... maybe even non-compete clauses from the school he's at... but it doesn't hurt to ask. You can fly the plane over to him for lessons.
 
cirrusmx said:
I can relate to your frustration of not making that perfect flight. take it easy and learn from your mistakes. The time will come when you will make a flawless flight from engine start to shutdown, in weather, at night, with ice, tons of heavy traffic in the terminal area and it will feel like you just made a hole in one. Best feeling ever!!!


Cheers!
Click to expand...

There happens to be a good book by Richard Collins titled "The Perfect Flight" in which he discusses that rarest of animals:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Perfect-Flight-Richard-Collins/dp/002527161X

With respect to owning: IMHO it only makes sense for most of us if we find ourselves spending ~$12,000/year (+/- 4000) flying over the course of several years. That assumes there is something you can rent at all.
 
denverpilot said:
This is touchy with insurance and what-not, but directly ask him if he'd be willing to talk to your club about being listed as a CFI on their insurance, etc. It probably won't work these days with dwindling student starts and competition, as well as insurance complications... maybe even non-compete clauses from the school he's at... but it doesn't hurt to ask. You can fly the plane over to him for lessons.
Click to expand...

Since I can only afford one lesson right now I'll save this thought for another day. I'm going to WINGS and possibly Gastons so right now those are what I'm saving up for. And there will be CFIs to learn from so it is not just a vacation it is a good value for money.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Exactly right. Even if a tie down or hangar was only $200 and insurance was only $100 that is $300 per month. Solo in my 150 I could get 3 hours which is a 1 hour flight almost every weekend.

So renting is for me.
Click to expand...

Kimberly, unless you rent 100 + hours a year and plan to do so for the forseable future, it is more economically viable to rent.
 
bobmrg said:
From now on, make every landing a short field landing; if you are not solidly on the runway in the first one-third, go around. No exceptions (you can log the extra time). Runway length is irrelevant if you can put it down before the 500 foot mark.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

Bob is a highly-respected pilot and author. The only thing I would humbly quibble with here is the use of the term "short field." One can make a soft field landing, still within the first third of the runway. I think that making whatever landing you are doing in the first third is the main point.
 
Unless you get an inexpensive airplane in a partnership with 3-5 pilots.
 
Kim, some days are diamonds, some days are coal.

Flying is a depreciable skill.

The fact still remains your critiquing of your flight and ability to find fault are traits of a superior pilot, and a great person.

There will be better days.
There will be worse days.

It's okay.
 
STS and Art will be good for you and money well spent. I suspect this will be a good weekend of flying for you. Sorry I will not be there to watch but my cheerleader of 41 years and I will be celebrating in the Redwoods.
:goofy:
 
Geico266 said:
Kim, some days are diamonds, some days are coal.

Flying is a depreciable skill.

The fact still remains your critiquing of your flight and ability to find fault are traits of a superior pilot, and a great person.

There will be better days.
There will be worse days.

It's okay.
Click to expand...
I'm going to quote Geico here because he said it so well and eloquently. (Do you mind Geico? Should I pay you royalties? ;)). Kim, you are hard on yourself but I think this is probably a good trait, as a pilot. And like everyone else said, nothing was hurt, so tweak what you didn't like and keep flying. :yesnod:
 
Tracey said:
I'm going to quote Geico here because he said it so well and eloquently. (Do you mind Geico? Should I pay you royalties? ;)). Kim, you are hard on yourself but I think this is probably a good trait, as a pilot. And like everyone else said, nothing was hurt, so tweak what you didn't like and keep flying. :yesnod:
Click to expand...

Thank you, no royalties needed. This is why PoA is so important to me and to all of us. We are pilots, we are a family, learning, critiquing each other, and attempting to become better people, and pilots.

We are Pilots of America.




:D
 
Threefingeredjack said:
IMHO this is nearly impossible for a beginning pilot to do. Sure, relaxing is important, but that relaxation should come from a sense of preparedness, not lax attitude. I don't want to bore you with old war stories, but when on active duty and a call came in, we didn't rush out to our A/C and launch. We met as a crew, briefed and got all to information possible organized and departed. I guess what I'm trying to say is Do what makes you feel most prepared. The time will come when you can see a sunny sky and launch to a nearby airport with what seems now minimal planning. But all the previous flight experience you have earned will prepare you for that day. Keep it up, you'll get there.
Click to expand...

You may have to put qualifiers on that for some people...:rofl:
 
Palmpilot said:
What I see in that picture is a pilot getting the lay of the land before committing to a landing. I call that good judgement. A bad pilot would land before she was ready.

And the fact that you self-critique and see a need for improvement is another positive sign.
Click to expand...

I just really looked at the pattern and what you said and thought, "yep, bout right' The pattern is very similar in that view to what I use to clear a field and gain working energy to drop in; however I don't see her airport survey altitudes.
 
Henning said:
I just really looked at the pattern and what you said and thought, "yep, bout right' The pattern is very similar in that view to what I use to clear a field and gain working energy to drop in; however I don't see her airport survey altitudes.
Click to expand...

I think even aimless meandering serves a purpose if it doesn't get in anyone's way and helps the pilot formulate a plan for making a safe landing in unfamiliar terrain. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
 
Last edited:
Geico266 said:
Thank you, no royalties needed. This is why PoA is so important to me and to all of us. We are pilots, we are a family, learning, critiquing each other, and attempting to become better people, and pilots.

We are Pilots of America.




:D
Click to expand...
With liberty and justice for all... ;)
 
spiderweb said:
Kimberly, unless you rent 100 + hours a year and plan to do so for the forseable future, it is more economically viable to rent.
Click to expand...

This is utterly true. I guess what I was driving at is if financial limitations limit the hours to one or two a month, one must accept that they won't be Bob Hoover. So long as one can safely carry out the flights, I consider it good.

However, I don't own the words to sufficiently commend Kimberly for her attitude. If everyone had such an attitude about everything they did, the world would be in a far better state.
 
As a newly minted private pilot I did my first XC to a completely new destination with a passenger to Augusta, ME. Augusta has automated weather, and I had planned to overfly the field and enter a left downwind for the longer of the two runways which the automated weather seemed to indicate was the best choice (the shorter crosswind runway was closed by NOTAM). But once I was actually overflying the field I looked down at the wind sock and it was pointed indicating a crosswind, and in fact, the wind sock kept changing position and I considered landing in the other direction. So I flew several circles around the airport, waffling before finally deciding that I would land "uphill" (the runway also slopes) which was the direction the windsock seemed to indicate more of the time.

My passenger was not horrified and I was my own worst critic in apologizing for the disorganized flying around. Once we were on the ground I learned a valuable lesson about the windsock. If the wind is almost completely slack but variable the sock can move around a lot but it doesn't really matter! I probably landed with a 1-2 knot crosswind component and a 1 knot crosswind/tailwind component depending on what the winds were doing at that point of time. With plenty of runway - uphill no less - it was silly to fret about the dancing of a mostly slack wind sock.

The important part of being a good pilot is to criticize your actions and learn from your own mistakes and I think Kimberly has done an excellent job of that. My experiences at Augusta led me to seek out new pilot controlled fields where there wasn't somebody telling me what runway to use like Nashua's ATIS did. If you let your experiences guide what you practice, you'll do good.
 
Our company limit is a 10kt tailwind component. If its that or less I will take it to land quicker. And takeoff quicker for that matter.
 
spinfire said:
...
The important part of being a good pilot is to criticize analyze your actions and learn from your own mistakes and I think Kimberly has done an excellent job of that. My experiences at Augusta led me to seek out new pilot controlled fields where there wasn't somebody telling me what runway to us like Nashua's ATIS did. If you let your experiences guide what you practice, you'll do good.
Click to expand...

Fixed that for ya.
 
So a bit of an update.

I may have a full house but will brief everyone to not speak during the flight. The BF has been gone for over a week and said he would like to come along (after all, he's never seen a lesson and Sunday is his first day home). I thought, OK, no big deal, I'll ask the CFI (and no, Patrick, this is not Art). This airport is a new airport for me and only 10 minutes from the BF's house. Then - I get emails from the 99s about upcoming trips - and notice they are going to Yosemite. One young woman replies asking if there are any empty seats, saying she is here from out of state and doing instrument training in Petaluma. I called last night to see if one day we could fly together (XC, to split cost) and she agreed to chat. She wants to meet so I invited her along too! The CFI is incredibly laid back about all of this.

Yes, I realize lessons are not a social time, but it will give her a chance to safely see me as a pilot with a CFI in a 172 (which is what she flies). Then we can decide our plan going forward. No rush since she is not checked out to solo in her 172 yet, and has only had 4 lessons (instrument). The CFI says I can help her (she can wear foggles and practice approaches) and then I can get XC time (I can fly us back). It seems it will be a good thing. So glad I'm checked out in 4 planes at two flight schools now.

I asked her to speak to her CFI about it after we meet on Sunday. Funny thing, she is flying in 56G and with my primary CFI. Not sure yet if that is a good or a bad thing. It will be neat to get back into 56G, flew it last in January or February I think, but they don't have currency requirements there.

So I sent my "story" (just the first post), a bit of explanation, plus the map (crazy pattern approach) to the CFI. He says Booneville is tricky, and, though it will cost me more, he would like to do this:

(From his email, something he does before the checkride for his students):

"We should meet at 9:30 and review the airports and aircraft information and any questions you have. A "round robin" I usually do with my students is Healdsburg, Angwin, and Skypark (if there is time). As far as preparation, you should make note of items like field elevation, frequencies, traffic pattern directions and have an idea of which direction to point the plane going from one airport to another."

So yes, more money than I planned to spend (more like 2 hours instead of one hour) but you need to remember we are departing a class Delta which gives me radio practice and adds a third (or fourth) airport to my flight. I do not think I've ever landed at more than 2 other airports before. Even the 3 point solo cross country is only two "foreign" airports and then my home drome.

The plane is $136 per hour and I didn't choose the $115 per hour 152 because to be honest I think I do really well in 152's - why not spend the extra dollars? Most of my passengers prefer my 172, it has a Garmin 430, it is faster (180hp), so althought this will end my love affair with two seaters it has to be done. I was never that good in a larger plane. Sure this is a "new" plane but I hope it is close enough to help me. Also, I've never had a full 172 before and I know that will affect my landings / CG (will be a new thing for me). The CFI is $55 per hour so I expect to pay no more than:

CFI - 9:30am - 12:30pm (3 hours) - $165
Plane - 10:00am - 12:00pm (new girl has to be at her instrument lesson by 1pm so I told my new CFI we need to land by noon) - 2 hours - $272

$437 total

That's a hell of a lot to pay so I'm going to buy an external mic (found an old handheld sony voice recorder from my lessons) and record both the ground and flight time. My plan is to play it back in my car when I drive so that it "sticks" whatever he tells me. I often don't listen or retain information when I'm flying so this is a huge help.
 
I'm already really impressed with my new CFI (he doesn't mind all my emails and the one phone call I made).

But one thing I did ask: I asked if there would be time, while we are flying to all these places, to do "other stuff" like on the checkride stuff. I told him I'm not comfortable practicing on my own because I haven't done it (and never did when solo). Things like slow flight, stalls, etc. He said we can try to fit that in. I told him I'm not due for a BFR until August of 2013 but asked if what we will do can "count" as WINGS - the flying WINGS. And he said yes and that he will electronically sign me off on that.

Very cool when a CFI tries to combine many things into a lesson. Perhaps in a few lessons I won't be due until even later than August 2013. Then again, I don't like the two year thing. Maybe I'll "never" run out. Just keep my training up. I think I lack any plan and miss training since you always learn something. There is no structure once you get your cert and low income people like me think "now what do I do".
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I think I lack any plan and miss training since you always learn something. There is no structure once you get your cert and low income people like me think "now what do I do".
Click to expand...

This is common for recreational pilots. If you don't set goals for what you wanted to do with the airplane (or go hunting for them actually), flying around boring holes in the sky often becomes blasé or is a financial burden that isn't a good return on investment.

I can say from experience that it's possible to quit for many years, raise your income significantly with hard work by utilizing all that free time you would have been flying for studying and furthering your career goals, and start anew many years later when the airplane money is more in line with the budget.

I can also confirm that you'll still look up at every passing airplane and wish you hadn't stopped flying for however long that process takes. ;) So who's to say it isn't that good of a return on investment...?
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
...

CFI - 9:30am - 12:30pm (3 hours) - $165
Plane - 10:00am - 12:00pm (new girl has to be at her instrument lesson by 1pm so I told my new CFI we need to land by noon) - 2 hours - $272

$437 total

That's a hell of a lot to pay...
Click to expand...

And THIS is one of the reasons I now own.

After getting my cert, it seemed ludicrous to be spending $400 on a short hamburger run. Consequently, I didn't fly much.
Then, I found a cheap rental and flew more.
Now, I own. Probably pay more, but I ain't adding up that bill!!!
 
JoeSelch said:
And THIS is one of the reasons I now own.

After getting my cert, it seemed ludicrous to be spending $400 on a short hamburger run. Consequently, I didn't fly much.
Then, I found a cheap rental and flew more.
Now, I own. Probably pay more, but I ain't adding up that bill!!!
Click to expand...

Right, I found an $80 rental (but with fuel surcharge is more) and thought I had found someone to split that with. Looking like maybe not (long story). Now the girl this Sunday MIGHT split time with me in a 172 which costs about $125 so only $62 each. That is currently my best option. The idea is I would get out and one of us would sit left seat each way. We both need XC hours. We shall see, what I'm finding that other people make things hard. The best I can probably do is just rent the 150 by myself for $80 - $90 and make some goals for myself.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Right, I found an $80 rental (but with fuel surcharge is more) and thought I had found someone to split that with. Looking like maybe not (long story). Now the girl this Sunday MIGHT split time with me in a 172 which costs about $125 so only $62 each. That is currently my best option. The idea is I would get out and one of us would sit left seat each way. We both need XC hours. We shall see, what I'm finding that other people make things hard. The best I can probably do is just rent the 150 by myself for $80 - $90 and make some goals for myself.
Click to expand...

Just make sure you flip for who flies the eastbound leg.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Just make sure you flip for who flies the eastbound leg.
Click to expand...

I thought about this, but remember:

1. My guy for splitting $80 isn't working out

2. My gal for splitting $125 isn't yet checked out in that plane

I think the best thing to do is trade. I fly the outbound leg one flight, next flight they get to. And I might want to do one pattern too before going home if I didn't land there, since we are already there and I need to practice landing at different airports.
 
JoeSelch said:
And THIS is one of the reasons I now own.

After getting my cert, it seemed ludicrous to be spending $400 on a short hamburger run. Consequently, I didn't fly much.
Then, I found a cheap rental and flew more.
Now, I own. Probably pay more, but I ain't adding up that bill!!!
Click to expand...

Not wanting to add up the total cost is not much of an advertisement for owning!
 
steingar said:
This is utterly true. I guess what I was driving at is if financial limitations limit the hours to one or two a month, one must accept that they won't be Bob Hoover. So long as one can safely carry out the flights, I consider it good.

However, I don't own the words to sufficiently commend Kimberly for her attitude. If everyone had such an attitude about everything they did, the world would be in a far better state.
Click to expand...


It's just fine so long as you accept that your survival is mostly due to luck and the inherent reliability of our machines, because if you never fly more than 100 hrs a year, you'll never be 'good'.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I think the best thing to do is trade. I fly the outbound leg one flight, next flight they get to. And I might want to do one pattern too before going home if I didn't land there, since we are already there and I need to practice landing at different airports.
Click to expand...

When I have split a flight with another pilot, we just write down the Hobbs when we switch off, and each pilot pays for the Hobbs for when he/she is flying. That way, if one of us wants to throw in some pattern work, there are no worries about whether it's fair.
 
Palmpilot said:
When I have split a flight with another pilot, we just write down the Hobbs when we switch off, and each pilot pays for the Hobbs for when he/she is flying. That way, if one of us wants to throw in some pattern work, there are no worries about whether it's fair.
Click to expand...

That is a good idea. My only requirement is that we go somewhere at least 50nm away so I can log XC time. But I still am unclear if I can / cannot log it as XC if I land at every airport on the way home. If not, then forget the 50nm rule, I just need to get to new places.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top