Woman kicked off of a flight

When was it that we started letting everyone fly with their lap-dogs? My wife has 2 little ankle-biters. And I swear, if she insisted on flying with one or both of them, I'd refuse to go.

Lately, I've been seeing more and more pets in the cabin on commercial aircraft. The last time I flew from JAX to SEA, there was a woman with a cat in a soft-sided carrier that meowed all the way.
 
wilkersk said:
When was it that we started letting everyone fly with their lap-dogs?
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I believe the trend started when folks started figuring out what a horrible environment a jet ramp is for a dog in a crate. And some airlines killed a few putting them in the wrong baggage bin.
 
wilkersk said:
When was it that we started letting everyone fly with their lap-dogs? My wife has 2 little ankle-biters. And I swear, if she insisted on flying with one or both of them, I'd refuse to go.

Lately, I've been seeing more and more pets in the cabin on commercial aircraft. The last time I flew from JAX to SEA, there was a woman with a cat in a soft-sided carrier that meowed all the way.
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Pit the meowing cat and the crying baby against each other. PPV in-flight entertainment!
 
And for a couple hundred bucks your dog can be classified as a service animal and it's free to go along with you anywhere in the U.S. on a commercial flight! Embarrassingly enough my daughter took her Blue Healer from Atlanta to Seattle and back in June.:redface: They both had a great trip, but I begged her not to do it, she's 26 and she paid for the ticket.:dunno:

Service animal:


denverpilot said:
I believe the trend started when folks started figuring out what a horrible environment a jet ramp is for a dog in a crate. And some airlines killed a few putting them in the wrong baggage bin.
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txflyer said:
So you can travel with your lap dog not in a box? WTF? Or did she have it classified as an aid dog?

She's probably still bitching about it to her butler and threatening to sue.

I wouldn't bang her with a ten foot pole. :vomit:
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I got little issue with dogs.

Folks who bring poorly behaved kids on the otherhand, I've yet to hear a dog on a plane get as loud as the kids, or kick the back of my seat :lol:
 
I've seen some dogs at the airport the last couple times I flew commercially, but haven't seen any on board any of my flights. What I HAVE seen is more and more people taking their dogs with them to restaurants and other events, but they put one of those special vests on them so nobody can tell them no.
 
Matthew said:
I've seen some dogs at the airport the last couple times I flew commercially, but haven't seen any on board any of my flights. What I HAVE seen is more and more people taking their dogs with them to restaurants and other events, but they put one of those special vests on them so nobody can tell them no.
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That is a big scam by people who get their kicks by getting over on the system and ****ing off other people. It is all a game. Unless you are blind and do not have another person to accompany you, you do not need a service animal. All of these people who claim that they need their dog with them at all times to give them emotional support are full of dog poo.
 
SkyDog58 said:
That is a big scam by people who get their kicks by getting over on the system and ****ing off other people. It is all a game. Unless you are blind and do not have another person to accompany you, you do not need a service animal. All of these people who claim that they need their dog with them at all times to give them emotional support are full of dog poo.
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You can't say that it violates the ADA!! :mad2::mad2: You can't even ask why they need the dog, only that they have the proper paperwork as a service dog. Like I said I am embarrassed that my daughter did it!:mad2:
 
Matthew said:
I've seen some dogs at the airport the last couple times I flew commercially, but haven't seen any on board any of my flights. What I HAVE seen is more and more people taking their dogs with them to restaurants and other events, but they put one of those special vests on them so nobody can tell them no.
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Yep, we are seeing this more and more at the hotel. By law, we must offer them a room, even if we are sold out of pet-friendly rooms.

Which makes promising an animal-free environment to the next guest who may be allergic to dogs problematic. Basically, we lose an entire day on that room, with the housekeepers washing the walls with sudsy ammonia.

Oh, and we aren't allowed to charge a pet fee. I figure a service dog in a non-pet room costs me about $190 in lost business in the season.
 
Ask Fastmetal about his experience when he and his student got chased away from doing pattern work at MCI because someone's dog couldn't hold it:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/25654369/dog-pooping-on-plane-forces-diversion-to-kansas-citys-airport

I used to have a buddy with a real service dog, his seeing eye dog. And I don't have a lot of problems with making accommodations for them. But with websites that offer some sort of registry for a couple of bucks that advertise "Take your dog anywhere!", and "Please use this registry responsibly" in tiny print, the legitimate users of these animals are being lumped in with all the other people and their pets.
 
I was interested to learn that the USDOJ uses the ADA guidelines to define a service animal as a dog and no other species. They also deny emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals as being service animals.
(Attached)
And that the rules the airlines go by do not define a S.A. as only a dog.
(Attached)
Also, there is no requirement for documentation, vest, ID tag to prove a dog is a service animal; only the word of the person with the dog is required. (document 1)

I predict big changes in this over the next 5 years as more people complain about service alligators on the airline, Flatulent Fido being presented at restaurants as a service animal.
 

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Let'sgoflying! said:
Also, there is no requirement for documentation, vest, ID tag to prove a dog is a service animal; only the word of the person with the dog is required. (document 1)
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We have been advised that it is illegal to ask the dog owner for proof that the dog is a service animal.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I was interested to learn that the USDOJ uses the ADA guidelines to define a service animal as a dog and no other species. They also deny emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals as being service animals.
(Attached)
And that the rules the airlines go by do not define a S.A. as only a dog.
(Attached)
Also, there is no requirement for documentation, vest, ID tag to prove a dog is a service animal; only the word of the person with the dog is required. (document 1)

I predict big changes in this over the next 5 years as more people complain about service alligators on the airline, Flatulent Fido being presented at restaurants as a service animal.
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I just looked through those documents and noticed the same thing: The DOJ definition of a "service animal" under the ADA is, "... a service animal is defined as a dog that has been individually trained..." and also specifically says that "emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals" are NOT considered service animals. It then says that State laws might apply differently.

The Air Carrier Act says "...dogs and other service animals...". If they stick to the ADA definition of "service animal" then it can only be a dog.

Jay Honeck said:
We have been advised that it is illegal to ask the dog owner for proof that the dog is a service animal.
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That DOJ memo does say that staff can only ask 2 questions: Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? What work or task has the dog been trained to perform?
 
Jay Honeck said:
We have been advised that it is illegal to ask the dog owner for proof that the dog is a service animal.
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That's wild.

We'll be down next week with our two 80# chocolate English Labs. They're quite laid back, and take care of my emotional health. I tend to weep when I see airplanes, so I need my labs with me. You've got a pool, right? Awesome. They love to swim also. Thanks, Jay. :D
 
nddons said:
That's wild.

We'll be down next week with our two 80# chocolate English Labs. They're quite laid back, and take care of my emotional health. I tend to weep when I see airplanes, so I need my labs with me. You've got a pool, right? Awesome. They love to swim also. Thanks, Jay. :D
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Ask him to add a nice doggie ramp to his pool, too.
 
Matthew said:
Ask him to add a nice doggie ramp to his pool, too.
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lol

Texas state law prohibits animals in public pools.

Federal law prohibits us from restricting service animals.

I'm going to jail. ;)
 
nddons said:
That's wild.

We'll be down next week with our two 80# chocolate English Labs. They're quite laid back, and take care of my emotional health. I tend to weep when I see airplanes, so I need my labs with me. You've got a pool, right? Awesome. They love to swim also. Thanks, Jay. :D
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Do you ask folks in a wheelchair if they really need it, and ask what's wrong with them?

Some folks will take advantage of things, as long as it doesn't personally affect me, or hurt someone, live and let live.

Someone getting one over the airlines by bypassing their pet fee, meh
 
It's wrong when you can pay a back-alley fee and have your pet declared a service animal when clearly it is not.

That is similar to buying handicap stickers to park up front when you're not handicapped.

And how many people are just forging the little vests on the dogs because by law they can't be asked and they do not have to provide documentation? That's nuts.
 
txflyer said:
It's wrong when you can pay a back-alley fee and have your pet declared a service animal when clearly it is not.

That is similar to buying handicap stickers to park up front when you're not handicapped.

And how many people are just forging the little vests on the dogs because by law they can't be asked and they do not have to provide documentation? That's nuts.
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You don't need a back alley fee or little doggie vest. The DOJ says:

>>>
Does the ADA require that service animals be certified as service animals?

A: No. Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal, as a condition for entry.

There are individuals and organizations that sell service animal certification or registration documents online. These documents do not convey any rights under the ADA and the Department of Justice does not recognize them as proof that the dog is a service animal.
<<<

All you need to do is say it's a service animal.
 
SkyDog58 said:
That is a big scam by people who get their kicks by getting over on the system and ****ing off other people. It is all a game. Unless you are blind and do not have another person to accompany you, you do not need a service animal. All of these people who claim that they need their dog with them at all times to give them emotional support are full of dog poo.
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You're incorrect. I'm a type 1 diabetic and my service dog alerts me to hypoglycemic incidents prior to me being aware. No game here but $1,000's of dollars spent on training.
 
txflyer said:
It's wrong when you can pay a back-alley fee and have your pet declared a service animal when clearly it is not.

That is similar to buying handicap stickers to park up front when you're not handicapped.

And how many people are just forging the little vests on the dogs because by law they can't be asked and they do not have to provide documentation? That's nuts.
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There is no fee nor national registry for service animals.
 
I'm a type 1 diabetic and my service dog alerts me to hypoglycemic incidents prior to me being aware.
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I can't imagine anyone disagrees with accommodation of ketone-smelling dogs, or dogs that can detect the onset of seizures, dogs that assist truly disabled folks.

What is aggravating is when ordinary owners misuse the system just to get their household pet onto an airplane/in a restaurant/hotel etc.
Not only is that wrong but it is a slap in the face to those with bonafide need.
 
If you can prove and provide documentation to a legitimate need for a medical service dog, I'm all for it.

But just taking your word for it don't cut it.

I hate to go all libtard on y'all, but this sounds like a thing that could use a little more regulation and maybe swing more towards having legitimate licenses issued and paid for by the dog.
 
James331 said:
Do you ask folks in a wheelchair if they really need it, and ask what's wrong with them?



Some folks will take advantage of things, as long as it doesn't personally affect me, or hurt someone, live and let live.



Someone getting one over the airlines by bypassing their pet fee, meh
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Did you notice the smiley face on my post? Lighten up, Francis.
 
txflyer said:
... and paid for by the dog.
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Might be more effective if the owner pays - unless payment is accepted in biscuits :D

(Yes, I know what you actually meant...!)
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I can't imagine anyone disagrees with accommodation of ketone-smelling dogs, or dogs that can detect the onset of seizures, dogs that assist truly disabled folks.

What is aggravating is when ordinary owners misuse the system just to get their household pet onto an airplane/in a restaurant/hotel etc.
Not only is that wrong but it is a slap in the face to those with bonafide need.
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There's the rub, I appear "normal" to anyone looking or talking with me.
 
txflyer said:
If you can prove and provide documentation to a legitimate need for a medical service dog, I'm all for it.

But just taking your word for it don't cut it.

I hate to go all libtard on y'all, but this sounds like a thing that could use a little more regulation and maybe swing more towards having legitimate licenses issued and paid for by the dog.
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I, nor anyone else, owe you anything to prove what is needed.
 
pilot_dude said:
I, nor anyone else, owe you anything to prove what is needed.
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Really?

You demand special treatment from us all, above and beyond anything anyone else receives, but don't feel any responsibility to prove the need? No paperwork, vest, nothing to mark the dog as a legitimate, licensed service animal?

With this attitude there is nothing to prevent everyone from demanding the same treatment. Why shouldn't everyone be allowed to bring their animals everywhere, if there is no obligation to prove the need?

Worse, please explain how, in this lovely world, we should handle the people with severe allergies who demand an allergen-free environment, while you simultaneously demand the right to inflict your animal on their living space?

Whose "rights" are superior?
 
pilot_dude said:
I, nor anyone else, owe you anything to prove what is needed.
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Let me guess, ...

If I know this wacky administration, I'm paying for it somehow for you to tell me to go pound sand if I want to know anything about your dog. :rolleyes:
 
SkyDog58 said:
That is a big scam by people who get their kicks by getting over on the system and ****ing off other people. It is all a game. Unless you are blind and do not have another person to accompany you, you do not need a service animal. All of these people who claim that they need their dog with them at all times to give them emotional support are full of dog poo.
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Spend an afternoon at Walter-Reed, you might gain a little perspective. Service dogs come in all sizes and breeds. Every single day they keep people from eating a gun. For these proud veterans, the vest can feel like a big fat sign telling everyone that they're weak.

Do people take advantage? Of course. But the number is relatively small compared to the number of people service dogs help every day.
 
Can anyone imagine how this would have gone down if the lady was black? She'd probably own the airline by now.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Really?

You demand special treatment from us all, above and beyond anything anyone else receives, but don't feel any responsibility to prove the need? No paperwork, vest, nothing to mark the dog as a legitimate, licensed service animal?

With this attitude there is nothing to prevent everyone from demanding the same treatment. Why shouldn't everyone be allowed to bring their animals everywhere, if there is no obligation to prove the need?

Worse, please explain how, in this lovely world, we should handle the people with severe allergies who demand an allergen-free environment, while you simultaneously demand the right to inflict your animal on their living space?

Whose "rights" are superior?
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Allergies are not protected by ADA. The answer is so easy even a hotelier can answer.
 
txflyer said:
Let me guess, ...

If I know this wacky administration, I'm paying for it somehow for you to tell me to go pound sand if I want to know anything about your dog. :rolleyes:
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ADA was in effect long before the prior administration. Facts can be funny things.
 
pilot_dude said:
Allergies are not protected by ADA. The answer is so easy even a hotelier can answer.
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I think Jay's dillema is that he has certain rooms that are pet friendly, and others are no-pets. When his pet friendly rooms are filled, he is legally obligated to put a service dog into the no-pet rooms. Those no-pet rooms are requested by guests with allergies, so he incurs extra expense to clean them. Expense that he is not allowed to charge the service dog owner.
 
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