Wing dent; need repair

VWGhiaBob

VWGhiaBob

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VWGhiaBob
In one of those aviation "oh S%!+" moments, one of my flaps got a small dent today when my co-pilot left a chair under the wing. The chair was not visibile during my preflight from the pilot's seat. The answer to my question "Why won't the flaps extend all the way?" was, "Because, dummy, there's a chair wedged beneath them."

The damage is costmetic (a very shallow dent). My A&P said it's definitely not an airworthiness issue.

But now I need to fix it, if not for me, for re-sale. Questions...

Anyone know a good place to get a repair in So. Cal.? The flap is metal, though the rest of the plane is composite (SR22).

Anyone know if this has to be a disclosure item on sale of the plane?

As always, thank you for any advice.
 
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Unless it's very very tiny ( like pencil eraser size or smaller ) it probably is an airworthiness issue on paper anyway. The only legal means to fix it that I'm aware of is replacement.

When painting a plane, folks will use a little bondo here and there to smooth out any inconsistencies. They don't log every little inconsistently they fix.
 
kgruber said:
Always do a preflight......always.
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The way I read it; the dent was result of doing the preflight. He lowered the flaps from the cabin (I assume before doing a walk-around)...and couldn't see the chair under the flap on the co-pilot side.
 
Correct, Muttley. I ALWAYS do a preflight, even when I stop. Early on, the flaps are tested during the preflight, which is what happened here.
 
I remember a article about a magnetic dent puller device for aircraft, forget where the service was located but they did a lot of work on high end jets, might be worth a google.
 
My opinion worth exactly what you paid for it, but it would be interesting & illustrative to see the dent. Is a small dent really worth repairing and will it impact the resale on a Cirrus?

I can't personally afford to fix all the dents and wrinkles in my 50 YO 172, but I acknowledge my frame of reference is vastly different than your own.
 
Re-skinning a flap is a lot of work over a small dent that you've had inspected and isn't an airworthiness issue. Leave it alone and accept that it doesn't warrant what it would take to fix.

I dropped my tail off a jack several years ago. Part of the jack went through the elevator as the tail fell. My mechanic patched it and being particular I bought a new skin so we could fix it properly at our convenience later. That was many years ago and that skin is still on the shelf in my garage. Too much work for too little benefit.
 
Call the paintless dent repair guys, they may be able to work it out with suction cups and some rubbing.
 
Stewartb said:
Re-skinning a flap is a lot of work over a small dent that you've had inspected and isn't an airworthiness issue. Leave it alone and accept that it doesn't warrant what it would take to fix.

I dropped my tail off a jack several years ago. Part of the jack went through the elevator as the tail fell. My mechanic patched it and being particular I bought a new skin so we could fix it properly at our convenience later. That was many years ago and that skin is still on the shelf in my garage. Too much work for too little benefit.
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It's more than likely an airwothiness issue though. Especially on a controll surface. A guy here got grounded by the FAA and his mechanic got in trouble for signing off a quarter sized dent in an elevator.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Correct, Muttley. I ALWAYS do a preflight, even when I stop. Early on, the flaps are tested during the preflight, which is what happened here.
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James331 said:
I remember a article about a magnetic dent puller device for aircraft, forget where the service was located but they did a lot of work on high end jets, might be worth a google.
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Sorry, I didn't understand the original post. I guess my advice now is "always preflight a preflight!"

Also, there is a machine out there that pulls dents from aluminum. They can pretty much pull hail dents.
 
bartmc said:
It's more than likely an airwothiness issue though. Especially on a controll surface. A guy here got grounded by the FAA and his mechanic got in trouble for signing off a quarter sized dent in an elevator.
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Why do people think a small dent in a flap is an airworthiness issue?:dunno: A flap is not a control surface.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Correct, Muttley. I ALWAYS do a preflight, even when I stop. Early on, the flaps are tested during the preflight, which is what happened here.
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Sounds like a new preflight routine is needed. A walk around the entire plane is what I do first.
 
EdFred said:
Sounds like a new preflight routine is needed. A walk around the entire plane is what I do first.
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Take that up with Cirrus. I follow their routine, by the book. It doesn't include an item to check under the wing to see if your co-pilot stuck his chair there, out of sight. :eek:

That said, not a bad idea. That would make it 3 total walkarounds for me. Pre-pre, then pre-flight, then final 360 before engine start.
 
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VWGhiaBob said:
Take that up with Cirrus. I follow their routine, by the book. It doesn't include an item to check under the wing to see if your co-pilot stuck his chair there, out of sight. :eek:
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:confused: You don't ever think for yourself?:dunno:
 
Henning said:
:confused: You don't ever think for yourself?:dunno:
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Totally! I have invented my own comprehensive flight planning form, for example, because none of the ones I use are good enough. All part of my obsession with safety!

Update for those still interested...Two sources now say it's airworthy... evaluation from an A&P and written recommendation from Savvy (my maintenance co).

Today I'm getting a repair estimate and will have to decide whether to 1) pay for it myself, or 2) file insurance claim and pay increased rates.

Gotta' love flying to put up with this!
 
ANYONE know what the manufacturer's repair manual says ?
 
I'd start by checking this crazy thing called the maintenance manual. I bet it gives damage limits.
 
I would assume the professional evaluators took into account the manufacturers limits. A flap is not that big of a problem to absorb a dent.
 
Henning said:
Why do people think a small dent in a flap is an airworthiness issue?:dunno: A flap is not a control surface.
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Because depending on the size, it is an airworthiness issue. I know piper has some pretty strict limits, not sure what Cirrus has.

And if you have some time, could you go update the wikipedia article and remove all references to flaps being control surfaces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_control_surfaces
 
bartmc said:
Because depending on the size, it is an airworthiness issue. I know piper has some pretty strict limits, not sure what Cirrus has.

And if you have some time, could you go update the wikipedia article and remove all references to flaps being control surfaces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_control_surfaces
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They are lift surfaces, not control surfaces, many planes fly with no flaps, and any of them you can just leave them stowed and fly fine. They are not balanced, and they are not manipulated to effect rotation around any of the 3 axis.

I understand there are limits to the damage, but from what he says happened, I would not automatically assume he's passed the threshold.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Take that up with Cirrus. I follow their routine, by the book. It doesn't include an item to check under the wing to see if your co-pilot stuck his chair there, out of sight. :eek:
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Part of aviation is the ability to use common sense, along with your precious check list. That's why the pros use "flows" first.

And bad form! You continue to blame you co-pilot for your own mistakes.:no:
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Take that up with Cirrus. I follow their routine, by the book. It doesn't include an item to check under the wing to see if your co-pilot stuck his chair there, out of sight. :eek:

That said, not a bad idea. That would make it 3 total walkarounds for me. Pre-pre, then pre-flight, then final 360 before engine start.
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Sounds about right. Someone at the factory not taking real world things into account. Flaps is the last thing I check. In fact, I'm buckled in before I check my flaps.

Also, the 3 walk arounds sounds about right for me as well. A once over before I do anything. Then check engine compartment, left wing/tanks/trailing edge, tail, right trailing edge/tanks/wings, then a final counter clockwise check before climbing onto the wing and into the plane.
 
Oh....just use one of these and fill the hole in with bondo...sand to the liking, put some primer on it and boom yer done. :D

dent-puller.jpg
 
Another small lesson, never leave things where they may cause damage.
 
Try working in an airline's heavy maintenance hangar working on wide body jets with dozens of other mechanics, cleaners, etc. and lots of maintenance stands, ladders and other equipment around. Even after walking around the aircraft to ensure nothing is in the way, telling everyone that you are bringing on hydraulics and moving flaps, turning on the beacon, sounding an air horn, firing up hydraulics and then sounding the horn again and yelling "flaps coming down"; some idiot will still move something in the way even with a couple of other guys watching to see that it does not happen.

Crunching flaps in a GA hangar with just you and another guy involved really is quite the accomplishment.
 
If it is a shallow dent with no creasing involved it might be removed with the aplication of dry ice to it. It will shrink the metal back to its original state. Paintless dent repair can work miracles as well.
 
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