Wind Shear APR Memory Aid or Chart/Graph

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by Sal M CFI, Jan 11, 2021.

  1. Sal M CFI

    Sal M CFI Filing Flight Plan

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    I'm looking for a good memory aide, or chart/graph to share with IFR students on the effect of wind shear on an approach.

    This is something I struggled with and I would like to be able to find something to share with my students that's easy to understand and or review.

    Tips, tricks, graphs all help!
     
  2. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Does wind shear have a different effect on an approach than it does anywhere else?
     
  3. Sal M CFI

    Sal M CFI Filing Flight Plan

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    Sure does, according to the FAA and and the knowledge test. They ask about it and want IFR candidates to understand it. The chart they show on written on wind shear down drafts is pretty easy, but I'm looking for an aide in the explanation of, a headwind shifts to tailwind or vice versa, on an ILS approach, what does that do.... etc. etc. etc. I can explain it, but there's got to be a chart or graph somewhere that makes it easier!
     
  4. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Ok...so the memory aid would be, whatever happens in Windshear VFR, it does the opposite on an approach.

    or is it opposite on just some stuff and not all of it?
     
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  5. Sal M CFI

    Sal M CFI Filing Flight Plan

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    If you don't want to share any advice or be of help, keep to yourself. I'm asking for advice from other CFI-I's on if they use a memory aid, chart with their students, something to go over for ILS's on circle to land's and review for KT. Maybe after 8,293 posts you just have found being helpful doesn't work anymore.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  6. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Ok...as a “CFI-I”, I find that memory aids fail More often than not. Particularly when they’re intended to explain how airplanes fly differently in the clouds than they do out of the clouds. Actual knowledge is better.
     
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  7. Sal M CFI

    Sal M CFI Filing Flight Plan

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    Well good for you. I'm asking for help, obliviously you being Mr. Super CFI-I have all the knowledge and can teach any subject perfectly. Good on you mate. I would share a LMTYAAT and all that, but you know it all. So if any other CFI's CFI-I's have a good way to show it, explain it that will me do a better job, I appreciate it.
     
  8. Rex Kramer

    Rex Kramer Line Up and Wait

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    What memory aids are you looking for? Are you talking about a microburst or mechanical turbulence as the cause of the windshear?

    The classic microburst doesn't have quite the effect on smaller aircraft as it does on transport category aircraft. Mass and inertia, or lack thereof, has a lot to do with that. The initial headwind shifting to a tailwind won't be that detrimental as the plane will go with the flow so to speak. It'll be the 6000fpm downdraft that'll put it in the dirt.

    My tip: Don't fly through it. It's not fun.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  9. Sal M CFI

    Sal M CFI Filing Flight Plan

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    On the Knowledge Test, there are a bunch of questions about change in wind direction on an ILS, or approach. I thought I saw a chart somewhere once that shows what will happen to, increased performance, etc, etc, When I was an instrument student I struggled with this. Was my thing during training for some reason I struggled with. I'm looking for ways to show this either in a graph/chart, maybe another CFI-I created something. And Maule, I told my wife, watch he's going to throw I'm a DPE or examiner in there next. Again, good on you mate.
    If you are, then you would appreciate an instructor reaching out for ways to do a better job, you insecurities and all.
     
  10. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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  11. Rex Kramer

    Rex Kramer Line Up and Wait

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    Are you trying to get information or be in a ****ing contest?

    In a classic microburst, as you fly into it you will have a very strong shift into a headwind. It'll cause a jump in airspeed and/or a climbing trend. You'll need to pull power and get the nose down to stay on the glideslope. So now there you are with power at idle and nose down and you get hit with the down draft. Now you're adding power and trying to climb and/or at least maintain glideslope. As you transition to the exit side of the downburst, you get a dramatic shift in wind which will cause a tailwind. Depending on the mass and energy state of your airplane, that's going cause a loss of airspeed, which you probably don't have as you're already slow trying to climb or at least arrest the descent.

    In a light GA aircraft, the change in wind direction might (might) not cause as much of a dramatic gain/loss of airspeed as the microburst is transitioned, but hitting the down draft sure as hell will be beyond the performance of most airplanes.
     
  12. dtuuri

    dtuuri En-Route

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    "High to low look out below"? o_O
     
  13. Craigd31

    Craigd31 Pre-Flight

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    There’s also a graphic of wind shear on approach in the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook. Fig 10-17 p.10-25 that might help.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  14. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    :popcorn: What's going on in here?
     
  15. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Maybe lead with this next time and you won't get ****ed when someone tries to clarify the question.
     
  16. Sal M CFI

    Sal M CFI Filing Flight Plan

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    Yes, what I'm looking for in particular is to address the questions about, "you are flying an ILS with a tailwind, that shifts to a slight headwind, what will the performance of the airplane be?" Above the GS, Below, etc. etc.

    But thanks everyone for your help.
     
  17. Sal M CFI

    Sal M CFI Filing Flight Plan

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    Actually, I would believe as a DPE, they wouldn't be snarky and unhelpful and pretentious to someone asking for help. That's just me.
     
  18. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    I think the point is that a trick or tip isn’t going to help you, which is what you asked for. You need understanding. The Faa provided material on this is quite extensive.
     
  19. dtuuri

    dtuuri En-Route

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    Yep, "High (groundspeed) to low (groundspeed), look out below!" An efficient use of memory aids.

    EDIT: Flip the script for microbursts/shear, I was thinking post-gust, long-term effect.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
  20. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    FIT. Fronts, inversions, TS.
     
  21. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    I can’t speak for everyone, obviously, but when an instructor comes with a question based on a misapplication of rote knowledge, and is looking for a way to reduce a learner’s knowledge to the rote level, snarkiness is my default.
     
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  22. Craigd31

    Craigd31 Pre-Flight

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    That’s depicted in the graphic. https://www.google.com/search?q=win...ECBYQAg&biw=1024&bih=649#imgrc=WrI9L16POd0BzM

    Tailwind shears to a headwind will cause plane to go above the GS & slower ground speed. Headwind shears to a tailwind will cause the plane to go below the GS due to sudden loss of lift & higher ground speed.
     
  23. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

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    No reason to add unnecessary layers, possible confusion. When planning the flight, TAFs at & near the destination are key.

    When in the approach environment, Metars/observations are it. With CBs in the vicinity, be on watch for rapidly changing conditions.

    I think it’s worthwhile to talk about ‘continuation bias’, taking a preplanned course of action to far.

    Besides wind shear, I think wake turbulence is one that needs discussion. Wake turbulence is more insidious, common threat, & can sneak up on one. One that comes to mind is the accident in Reno, wake blew from parallel runway to final of the downwind runway.
     
  24. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Forget the memory aides. Help them learn it so that when they do encounter it, they UNDERSTAND what is going on and take the appropriate measures. Understanding the effects of a sudden wind shift change on an airplane will have on lift/GS/etc...make the questions a non-event.
     
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