WiFi Extender Jr.

weirdjim

weirdjim

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Grass Valley, CA (KGOO)
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weirdjim
I'm getting reasonably good internet (6 down, 1.5 up) in the lab, but inside the house the wife is only getting 3 down and 1 up. There is consternation in the family that she can't watch her Roku without it continually buffering in the middle of the movie. Unhappy wife, unhappy life.

Here is the setup:

(200' cedar tree) (dish in the tree pointed at a local ISP dish ten miles away) (Cat 5 cable from the dish to a TP-Link N600 that broadcasts the wireless signal) (N600 is on the second floor of my electronics lab with big windows on the other side of the room from the N600 about 20' away from the windows, but my test equipment racks are between the N600 and the windows.)

(TP-Link TL-WN822N Wireless Access Point about 5 meters from the N600 wireless broadcaster) (USB cable) (Jim's WIn 7 machine.) As I said above, I getting everything my ISP says I can get from their equipment.

(Linksys RE4000W inside the house on the second floor with a perfect window view to the lab. It is rebroadcasting the wireless signal from the lab transmitter throughout the house with a very strong signal any place we go to look. DIstance from lab transmitter to house receiver is about 100 meters across open grassland.) As I said above, bandwidth is about half at this house end as I am getting at my end in the lab.

I have the following equipment that is sitting around unused. I'm thinking that some sort of relay station near my lab windows with a visual line of sight to the receiver in the house might be the answer, but can't find any information on how to make an intermediate broadcast transceiver.

DLink DIR-515 Switch/Router
(2) Trendnet TPL-480E (*)
Asus WL330gE WIreless Access point​

(*) The Trendnet units use the house wiring for transmission. The only problem is that they will have to transmit over power cables that are buried to bring house power out to the lab a good 100 meters away.

There are some immoveables. I can't move where the N600 broadcaster resides. I can't move the equipment racks. I can't move where the Linksys receiver in the house resides.

Please, treat me gently. I'm an RF cat in a room full of digital rocking chairs. Yes, I've designed power and signal amplifiers from DC to 13.3 Gigs, and more analog stuff than should be allowed, but if you start telling me to do digital and wireless stuff that a competent history major can't comprehend, I'll be way-lost.

Thanks,

jim
 
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When you use a repeater, you cut the speed in half, that's the way it works. If the reduced speed in the house is unacceptable, replace the N500 with an outdoor grade router and antenna, then you hopefully won't need the repeater in the house. I had good results setting up a system at a summer camp with a Ubiquiti Rocket M and an omni antenna. We also have two more Rockets configured as repeaters, but the incoming satellite signal is slow enough that the speed hit from the repeaters isn't noticeable.

The repeaters were originally configured as APS with CAT5 cable strung around the camp with switches to keep the cable lengths within limits. Worked great until the first good thunderstorm which fried all the switches. So don't do that.

Why can't you move the N500?
 
Dana said:
When you use a repeater, you cut the speed in half, that's the way it works. If the reduced speed in the house is unacceptable, replace the N500 with an outdoor grade router and antenna, then you hopefully won't need the repeater in the house. I had good results setting up a system at a summer camp with a Ubiquiti Rocket M and an omni antenna. We also have two more Rockets configured as repeaters, but the incoming satellite signal is slow enough that the speed hit from the repeaters isn't noticeable.

The repeaters were originally configured as APS with CAT5 cable strung around the camp with switches to keep the cable lengths within limits. Worked great until the first good thunderstorm which fried all the switches. So don't do that.

Why can't you move the N500?
Click to expand...

Would you please try that again in English?

Thanks,

JIm
 
Wireless bridge from lab to house. KuWfi on Amazon, both ends $60. I have one from my house to barn, about 100 yards line of sight. 10 down, 5 up both places, the max my ISP can provide. Plugged into a lan port at the house, PoE.
The barn end is plugged into a linksys router, but I think the WAP can also double as a router.

https://www.kuwfi.com/kuwfi-2-pack-...-point-to-point-wireless-bridge-p00092p1.html

Chinese, but what the hell. Worth a look.
 
Based on 10 seconds of googling, that extender should create its own network with a separate SSID and then forward the traffic between the two networks. Is that the way you have it configured?
 
Due to periodic strength issues, I considered an extender when we cut the cable and went to streaming TV. I has a poor result last time I tried one so I went to Best Buy to get some advice (we have some pretty good people at my local ones). When I told the guy what I wanted an extender for, he told me I'd probably end up returning it. He recommended an inexpensive 2-unit mesh system, one he used himself. I think it's about 4 months now and it has been rock solid.
 
bluesky74656 said:
Based on 10 seconds of googling, that extender should create its own network with a separate SSID and then forward the traffic between the two networks. Is that the way you have it configured?
Click to expand...

Yep. I believe it can be configured quite a few different ways, but this is how it came, and the instructions were pretty bad Chinglish, so I just slapped a cheap wireless router on it and called it good. We have a tenant in an apartment up there who is on it quite a lot and has never complained about it being slow.
 
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weirdjim said:
Would you please try that again in English?

Thanks,

JIm
Click to expand...
Replace the access point in the lab with a big powerful one and you won't need the repeater in the house and it will be faster.
 
Dana said:
Replace the access point in the lab with a big powerful one and you won't need the repeater in the house and it will be faster.
Click to expand...

I'm guessin' his ISP provides the access point as part of the wireless network, serves as downlink and router combined. That's how mine works. Can't change it out.
 
23311.jpg
 
OK, gang, thanks for the help. I just remembered that i have three of the units described in the attachment in dead storage (never been used). Are they of any help solving the problem?

Minor correction. I said in the original post that the wireless broadcast in the lab was a TP Link N500. It is actually an N600.

Jim
 

Attachments

  • TL-WA5210G_V1_User_Guide_1910010274.pdf
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weirdjim said:
OK, gang, thanks for the help. I just remembered that i have three of the units described in the attachment in dead storage (never been used). Are they of any help solving the problem?

Minor correction. I said in the original post that the wireless broadcast in the lab was a TP Link N500. It is actually an N600.

Jim
Click to expand...

That's the stuff. Create a wireless bridge. Plug one end into a lan port at the TP link, the other at the house with a wireless router, or if possible configure the house end as a wap. Point them at each other and viola...

Of course they'll be some config issues, but at least the documentation is in real english.
 
denverpilot said:
No one has mentioned that 6 down/1 up isn’t going to work for HD video anyway. Not unless massively compressed. 3 would be abysmal, 6 will just suck.
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With that information I'm assuming that its 6Mbps, but it doesn't say so specifically. If that is the case, that is the problem right there. They aren't going to be able to use multiple devices on that network, much less streaming.
 
Well, the problem is ...

Until a few months ago, that exact same link worked in reverse just fine ... We had the dish antenna in a tree right by the HOUSE, and the CAT-5 cable came directly into the house and into that same N600 which broadcast the signal throughout the house AND gave me enough signal at the lab that we both had 6 down and 2 up. Then the tree died and we had to put the antenna in a tree out near the lab.

I really don't do much video out in the lab, mostly email and newsgroups which are not bandwidth hogs. Every now and again a YouTube but the wife's TV in the house and my stuff in the lab (using exactly the same equipment, only in reverse) worked just fine. Now we reverse the link and the far end gets cut in half. Doesn't seem to make much sense, other than the wireless transmitter in the lab now has a stack of (metal) test equipment to shoot through to get to the window.

That's why I'm thinking a rebroadcaster in the lab window might be the solution, but as I said above, I'm an analog and RF longtailed cat in a room full of digital rocking chairs.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Well, the problem is ...

Until a few months ago, that exact same link worked in reverse just fine ... We had the dish antenna in a tree right by the HOUSE, and the CAT-5 cable came directly into the house and into that same N600 which broadcast the signal throughout the house AND gave me enough signal at the lab that we both had 6 down and 2 up. Then the tree died and we had to put the antenna in a tree out near the lab.

I really don't do much video out in the lab, mostly email and newsgroups which are not bandwidth hogs. Every now and again a YouTube but the wife's TV in the house and my stuff in the lab (using exactly the same equipment, only in reverse) worked just fine. Now we reverse the link and the far end gets cut in half. Doesn't seem to make much sense, other than the wireless transmitter in the lab now has a stack of (metal) test equipment to shoot through to get to the window.

That's why I'm thinking a rebroadcaster in the lab window might be the solution, but as I said above, I'm an analog and RF longtailed cat in a room full of digital rocking chairs.

Jim
Click to expand...
When you speak of 6 download are you referring to 6Mbps? If that is the case, then that is your main issue right there. While you can use what you have for browsing the web and perhaps use youtube on a lower quality setting, that speed translating to the roku is going to always have issues. Recently I went out to my uncles place and he has satellite as well and he was getting around what you are getting now (if its 6mbps) and so I took a look at his settings in his modem/router combo they gave him and it was broadcasting over 2.4ghz and 5 at the same time. I changed it so it would only broadcast on 2.4 and changed the channel and it gave him a boost to 25mbps, which is still pretty slow considering I get close to 200. You also need to realize that no matter your ISP, if you are trying to connect multiple devices on your network while using up the data you have, your ISP will throttle your connection making it worse. You also have to deal with a lot of people being off work right now using the data at the same time also slowing down your connection.

Is satellite your only option where you are located?
 
Chip Sylverne said:
That's the stuff. Create a wireless bridge. Plug one end into a lan port at the TP link, the other at the house with a wireless router, or if possible configure the house end as a wap. Point them at each other and viola...

Of course they'll be some config issues, but at least the documentation is in real english.
Click to expand...

I wish I understood all that you are trying to tell me.

Thanks,

Jim
 
Winged_Splinter said:
When you speak of 6 download are you referring to 6Mbps?

Yes.

If that is the case, then that is your main issue right there.

We were quite happy with what we had until we had to reverse the location of the dish and the house setup.

your ISP will throttle your connection making it worse.

Our ISP is pledged not to do that and so far has kept their word for 5 years.

Is satellite your only option where you are located?

It is not satellite; it is terrestrial (local antennas on tall hills).
Click to expand...

Thanks,

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Thanks,

Jim
Click to expand...
That's your problem right there. You began your question referring to your wife being able to stream on the ruku. I understand you are having issues with all the tech lingo being posted here so I'll make this simple.

While it is said that minimum internet speed to stream (play video) would be around 3Mbps for standard quality video, in reality it would be more like 18Mbps. Your first step before adding extra access points making the problem worse would be to get higher speed internet.

I don't know if your ISP (Internet service provider) is the only one you can get, but if you are limited to satellite and 6Mbps, your issue isn't going to be solved by adding more equipment no matter which direction you point your antennas or how many extenders you use.

If able, get higher internet speed and that should fix your streaming issue. I'm lucky as I get close to 200 with an unlimited data plan.
 
Winged_Splinter said:
That's your problem right there. You began your question referring to your wife being able to stream on the ruku. I understand you are having issues with all the tech lingo being posted here so I'll make this simple.

Roku.

I'll also try to make this simple. It worked just fine going west to east but doesn't work fine going east to west. Receiprocity is fundamental to my profession of antenna design and until I can find out what the difference is and correct it, I'm not inclined to change anything else.

I'm good with tech lingo so long as the first time a "lingo" is used it is explained. If this were an antenna forum and I said that a dipole (which I have not yet defined) has a gain of 2.15 dBi (I have neither defined dB nor i(sotropic) then I would expect some confusion. Pardon my 43 years teaching freshmen engineering students, but I spend 90% of classroom time explaining in excruciating detail terms that most of them have never seen, much less comprehended. The easiest way to lose good students is to forget that at one time, this stuff was a mystery to you, too.

While it is said that minimum internet speed to stream (play video) would be around 3Mbps for standard quality video, in reality it would be more like 18Mbps. Your first step before adding extra access points making the problem worse would be to get higher speed internet.

If "it is said" (by who?) that 3M is ok for standard quality video, why do you claim 6x more? Makes no sense unless "they" were wrong to start with.

I don't know if your ISP (Internet service provider) is the only one you can get, but if you are limited to satellite and 6Mbps, your issue isn't going to be solved by adding more equipment no matter which direction you point your antennas or how many extenders you use.

Perhaps. Did you even READ what I said that it is NOT satellite, but terrestrial towers?

If able, get higher internet speed and that should fix your streaming issue. I'm lucky as I get close to 200 with an unlimited data plan.

Not able. We've been promised fiberoptic for about 5 years now, and the only visible progress is looped spare fiber cable on every telephone pole in this part of the county. We are lucky. 45 years ago, we found a 2 acre parcel in the midst of 5 acre minimums, which means that any provider has to run a LOT of fiber to serve a SMALL number of homes.

I'm happy you got your 200, although I don't quite understand how you can efficiently use that much bandwidth.

But I digress. Perhaps a "repeater" (or whatever you digital cats call them) halfway between transmitter and receiver won't buy a thing. But I won't know until I figure out a way to do the experiment. My engineering has always been finesse at the expense of big baseball bats.
Click to expand...

Thanks,

Jim
 
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Hey, folks, thanks for all your input. However, I'm being pushed in a lot of directions, not all of them gentle and kind. So, here is the deal.

I've got a small box called a D-Link DIR-615. I'd like to configure this little box to be a "repeater" between the transmitter in the lab to the receiver in the house.

Unfortunately, the manual is 3Mb and won't attach. I'll be happy to post any section of the manual that you would like, or all sections split apart into smaller sections. Anything you want.

Just take me by the hand and walk me through the process, excruciatingly small step by small step. But let's stop going off into a dozen directions that is only confusing.

Would you please do that for me?

I owe you one the next time you have a circuit or antenna question.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Well, the problem is ...

Until a few months ago, that exact same link worked in reverse just fine ... We had the dish antenna in a tree right by the HOUSE, and the CAT-5 cable came directly into the house and into that same N600 which broadcast the signal throughout the house AND gave me enough signal at the lab that we both had 6 down and 2 up. Then the tree died and we had to put the antenna in a tree out near the lab.
Click to expand...

RIght... At that time you had the full speed signal in the house, without going through the Linksys RE4000W repeater that cuts the speed in half. You didn't say if you had the repeater in the lab at that time, but if you did, I'm guessing your needs were less there. Or maybe the antenna configuration and relationship of the various devices was better so you were getting fewer dropped packets (if it misses a bit of data it has to stop and retry).

Remember, the repeater receives a weak signal and rebroadcasts it to the devices in the house... and receives the signal from the devices in the house and sends it back to the upstream AP in the lab. That cuts the speed in half. That's why I suggested a more powerful access point in the lab, so you don't need the repeater in the house, with its performance hit, to get a strong enough signal for the devices there.
 
Dana said:
RIght... At that time you had the full speed signal in the house, without going through the Linksys RE4000W repeater

That's just not true, and that is what I have been trying to tell y'all now for a week or so. The transmitter in the house was the N600 and was giving 6/2 speed to the house and the RE4000 was not necessary in the lab, the WAP alone was enough to give 6/2 to the lab. Reversing them gives 3/1 to the house and the same 6/2 to the lab.

Hey, thanks for trying to help, but we are just not communicating. Let me try and work this out another way. Sorry I bothered y'all.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
So when you had the N600 in the house, did you have the RE4000 in the lab? If the answer is no, as I understand it, you get full speed in both places. When you turned it around and through some accident of antenna placement you needed the RE4000 to get a strong enough signal in the house, you halved the speed in the house because it had to go through the RE4000, because repeaters halve the throughput.
 
Dana said:
So when you had the N600 in the house, did you have the RE4000 in the lab?

Yes, actually I did. But for whatever reason, I took the RE4000 off line one day and noticed that I still had internet access directly through the little WAP pointed directly at the house. I never bothered looking to see what speed I was getting with the repeater online in the lab. Never occurred to me. Just took the RE4000 and put it in storage.

I am of the opinion that you are exactly correct. If I disconnect the RE4000 in the house, the signal strength is abysmal with the transmitter in the lab, but the speed is back up to 6/2. Thank you for convincing me of this.

My current thinking is to snake an extension CAT5 cable from the east wall, along the baseboard to the north wall; along the north wall baseboard to the west wall; along the west wall to a clear (non-screened) window, and fire the signal at the house from a TP-Link WA5210G high power transmitter and see if that will work without another device in the house. I've got three of those units in storage from an experiment from ten years ago that worked but was not practical. Dunno. Will report results here.
Click to expand...

Thanks,

Jim
 
OK, I admit to being an absolutely negligent person. The fellow I got the RE4000 from told me it was a "repeater", so I didn't google the device. Turns out it was a wireless extender and by a repositioning of the device's antennas more directly at the window the signal strength took a quantum jump and now we are 6x2 at both ends. Sorry for the hassle and longwinded debate. Lesson learned ... always check your sources.

Jim
 
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