Why you should ALWAYS bring a gun camping

Bob Noel said:
How many of those approximately 8000 skin cancer fatalities were caused
by exposure to the sun in the great outdoors? If we are to compare
fatality rates, we need to exclude other factors.
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Color me dense...but how else are you going to get skin cancer?
 
Maxmosbey said:
New law in Iowa, no texting while driving. How in the heck are they going to enforce that one? It is going to be a hard one to prove in court. "I wasn't texting your honor, I was getting driving directions."
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Subpoena your cell phone records. You could challenge the accuracy of the records and the accuracy of the time. A lot of cell phones will simply retry sending a message until it worked. If your phone did that you could argue you sent it a hour before and it just decided to finally send while you were driving.

Nebraska's texting law just went into effect today. We'll see how it works out.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Color me dense...but how else are you going to get skin cancer?
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We go outside all the time. Our exposure to the sun (and other UV
radiation sources) is not limited to those portions of the
"great outdoors" where someone might encounter wildlife.
 
There's something kind of amusing about watching pilots arguing that there needs to be a logical reason to engage in an activity. :D

As for the infrequency of needing to fend off attacks, it seems to me that a gun is one of those things that you may not need very often, but when you need it, you really really need it!
 
Everskyward said:
I think it's a bit like how people feel about carrying a cellphone. Nowadays people think you are nuts if you don't have a cellphone. What about emergencies??!! What if you break down on the road??!! I never carried a cellphone until about 10 years ago and I can remember in my younger days disappearing for days without a cellphone or a gun. But I'll have to admit that now I feel naked without my cellphone.... :redface:
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Well, if you break down on the road, that's when you might need a gun - you can use a cartridge to replace the blown fuse and be on your way...
(well, you used to be able to - now pretty much everyone uses the blade fuses)
 
jesse said:
Subpoena your cell phone records. You could challenge the accuracy of the records and the accuracy of the time. A lot of cell phones will simply retry sending a message until it worked. If your phone did that you could argue you sent it a hour before and it just decided to finally send while you were driving.

Nebraska's texting law just went into effect today. We'll see how it works out.
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"We'll see how it works out." I'm with you there. They pass so many laws these days that I don't see how they can be enforced. I just can't see them subpoenaing cell phone records unless there is some type of serious accident involved. I think that is where this law will come into play. "Gee judge, would you give me a warrant for Joe Schmoe's phone records, I saw him doing something with his phone while he was driving." I don't see that happening. Bottom line, don't want a ticket, don't get in an accident while you are texting.
 
steingar said:
Even a small gun weighs a pound and a half, and I imagine a full clip of ammo weighs a half pound. That's two pounds of weight for something I am almost certainly not going to need. The mountains of the lower 48 are devoid of Grizzley bears, and they're the only ones that are dangerous to the savvy backpacker. So when someone tells me they need to be armed to go out in the woods it flips my BS meter all the way on. You might like a gun to go in the woods, and be my guest. You'd make a lousy backpacker, but I doubt any of us are spending weeks at a time in the wilderness. I am certainly not in my decrepitude.
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You are missing the point -- that pound and a half will save your life when the zombies come and attack your camp.



:ihih:
 
Bob Noel said:
How many of those approximately 8000 skin cancer fatalities were caused by exposure to the sun in the great outdoors?...
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I'm not really proposing this as a head-to-head showdown between bears and skin cancer, statistically. To make that argument you'd have to account for the difference in "exposure", e.g. how much time people spend out in the sun (or on a tanning bed) as opposed to how much time they spend hiking, camping, fishing, etc.

But that question does lead to the related question: "how many of those bear attacks were in the great outdoors"?

By my count, of the 9 fatal bear attacks in the lower 48 during 2000-2009, only 4 of them actually occurred in the "great outdoors". One was literally indoors, a bear broke into a home and killed the occupant. Another was a "pet" bear, who attacked his owner in his cage. A third was an "actor" bear, who killed at a training facility. A fourth pulled a child off his home porch. The fifth broke into a fenced-in backyard (where the victim was feeding another bear).

One of the 4 actual "great outdoors" bear fatalities was an elk hunter. I'm guessing he was armed.
-harry
 
I don't care what anyone says about low risk. These guys hang out in my front yard and back yard a lot from Spring to Fall. This photo of one was in my front yard. I always carry even while sitting on my couch... Now, I would feel naked without it. Most of the time, the Black bears will just run away. But, occasionally one will act differently and I'll be prepared if that particular one is a little psycho. But even a higher risk than the bears are dogs that may run in packs. Before I started packing, I have been challenged, on my own property, by a dog that weighs almost as much as me and I felt helpless.
 

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ScottM said:
You would be better off bringing some dog repellent (aka pepper spray). I have been attacked by dogs running lose while biking far more than ever being attacked by people where I would need a gun.

The only time a person ever gave me a hard time while biking I simply called 911. He was ****ed that I was riding on the road when there was a perfectly good sidewalk and he wanted to tell me how it was the law that bikes ride on the sidewalk. He got all up in my face, 911, 5 minutes later cops arrived, heard both sides, told him he was wrong and then issued him a ticket for improper lane usage and sent him on his way with his tail between his legs. He was never threatening violence, but if he did, I still had the pepper spray to slow him down.
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Pepper blankie??? :D
 
dmccormack said:
Ahh... there it is.

News flash: "Smart people are impervious to injury."

Whew...glad that's true.
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Wow, you are just going to stick by your rhetoric. Despite literally tens of thousands of tourists in wilderness areas every year, the number of bear attacks can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Despite that, you are going to absolutely insist that they are vicious predators and everyone has to be armed if they have the slightest chance of an encounter.

Yes, people who do things like try and feed them, keep food in their tents or in their cars, or engage in other absolutely idiotic behavior can come to serious grief. Those that have the slightest modicum of common sense have little or no problem.

Enough of this. Later.
 
steingar said:
... Despite literally tens of thousands of tourists in wilderness areas every year...
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The national park service gets 250M visits per year, including 8M campers. Add state parks to that, and places where people can camp or hike or whatever without anybody counting them, and people who live in remote areas...
-harry
 
mantakos said:
The national park service gets 250M visits per year, including 8M campers. Add state parks to that, and places where people can camp or hike or whatever without anybody counting them, and people who live in remote areas...
-harry
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The bears probably aren't attacking because they don't know who is and who is not armed.

Does anyone have stats showing the increase of CCW and a decrease of bear attacks?
 
But wait! I read this article that said you're not supposed to be chewing on me! It's right here in my bag, and says black bears aren't a problem! I mean, c'mon, I'm a highly educated guy who knows all about this stuff. Ouch!

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012202518_bearbite25.html


steingar said:
Yeah, brown and black bears are very dangerous to the stupid. Not such a big worry for the rest of us. I got the range of grizzlies from this, which shows them only in very limited ranges in the lower 48, and not in the East. It is just a thing on the internet, so if its wrong you have my apologies.

Sorry, I've spent weeks at a time in the woods and interacted with bears. A little knowledge and common sense goes a long way. They're shy, gentle, retiring animals that would rather have nothing to do whatsoever with humans. They're also tremendously strong and will happily eat the same things we do, and thus have to be treated with caution. The presence of bears in your favorite recreational area does not in any way necessitate firearms.
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wabower said:
But wait! I read this article that said you're not supposed to be chewing on me! It's right here in my bag, and says black bears aren't a problem! I mean, c'mon, I'm a highly educated guy who knows all about this stuff. Ouch!...
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Rob Holmes, of Ellensburg, was awakened early Monday morning when he felt the 170-pound sow bear bite his earlobe. It took 21 stitches to close the wound.​
If only the camper had placed a gun in his ear before going to sleep...
-harry
 
Nah, he just needed pepper spray or sunscreen that would penetrate the tent.

mantakos said:
Rob Holmes, of Ellensburg, was awakened early Monday morning when he felt the 170-pound sow bear bite his earlobe. It took 21 stitches to close the wound.
​
If only the camper had placed a gun in his ear before going to sleep...
-harry
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wabower said:
But wait! I read this article that said you're not supposed to be chewing on me! It's right here in my bag, and says black bears aren't a problem! I mean, c'mon, I'm a highly educated guy who knows all about this stuff. Ouch!

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012202518_bearbite25.html
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I will note for the record that the man didn't die. The situation resolved itself without a firearm. Yes, the deputies executed the bear, but only later.

So he awakes to find a bear chewing on him. As best I can speculate, the gun would not have changed that one iota. Might have advanced the time of death of the bear a bit. Might also have enraged the bear such that it killed the unwitting camper. :dunno:
 
steingar said:
Wow, you are just going to stick by your rhetoric. Despite literally tens of thousands of tourists in wilderness areas every year, the number of bear attacks can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Despite that, you are going to absolutely insist that they are vicious predators and everyone has to be armed if they have the slightest chance of an encounter.

Yes, people who do things like try and feed them, keep food in their tents or in their cars, or engage in other absolutely idiotic behavior can come to serious grief. Those that have the slightest modicum of common sense have little or no problem.

Enough of this. Later.
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Did I say that? Where? When? Quote?

:idea:

Yet, you contend that "those with the slightest modicum of common sense have little or no problem,"

Simplified: Smart = no threats to self.

:thumbsup:
 
Here's a good test for the no-gun ninnies. Put a control group of 1000 campers in tents and have bears start chewing on their heads. If they survive, ask them what SPF sunscreen they would have wanted at the time of the attack.

Measure the in
flyersfan31 said:
I will note for the record that the man didn't die. The situation resolved itself without a firearm. Yes, the deputies executed the bear, but only later.

So he awakes to find a bear chewing on him. As best I can speculate, the gun would not have changed that one iota. Might have advanced the time of death of the bear a bit. Might also have enraged the bear such that it killed the unwitting camper. :dunno:
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wabower said:
Here's a good test for the no-gun ninnies. Put a control group of 1000 campers in tents and have bears start chewing on their heads. If they survive, ask them what SPF sunscreen they would have wanted at the time of the attack.
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:rofl:

.50 Sunscreen ought to work.
 
wabower said:
... Put a control group of 1000 campers in tents and have bears start chewing on their heads. If they survive, ask them what SPF sunscreen they would have wanted at the time of the attack...
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Alternately, we could put 1000 campers out in the sun, give half of them sunscreen, and the other half guns. We then compare how many of the campers from each group die of skin cancer and how many are killed by angry unicorns on crack.
-harry
 
Gerhardt said:
Keep in mind that being armed isn't a cure-all. Here's a story of a guy who brought a gun to a fist-fight and still didn't prevail.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2010/jun/20/dispute-ends-weapon-arrest/
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There is a story in Sean Connery's bio about Lanna Turner who he was starring with in a movie he was shooting. She had a boyfriend, Johnny Stompanato, and he was some sort of gangster tough guy. So Johnny shows up at the set and pulls a gun to threaten Connery who he thought was getting too friendly with Lanna. Connery grabbed the gun away from the guy and threw him off the set. Maybe that is why they picked him to be 007. :D
 
"why do you think I should dip my six-shooter in that tub of lard?"

"because when Wyatt Earp gets through playing that song for his mother . . . ."
 
Gerhardt said:
Keep in mind that being armed isn't a cure-all. Here's a story of a guy who brought a gun to a fist-fight and still didn't prevail.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2010/jun/20/dispute-ends-weapon-arrest/
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If you point a gun at someone you better be willing to pull the trigger. If you're not it's a danger to you. I wouldn't compare an idiot trying to intimidate someone stronger then them with a firearm to an intelligent citizen defending themselves from a threat.
 
Sorry, Jesse. I wasn't trying to make a comparison, but rather just interject a little humor into the discussion.
 
wabower said:
"why do you think I should dip my six-shooter in that tub of lard?"

"because when Wyatt Earp gets through playing that song for his mother . . . ."
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That is good advice for having a handgun in bear country too, for most people.
 
jesse said:
If you point a gun at someone you better be willing to pull the trigger. If you're not it's a danger to you. I wouldn't compare an idiot trying to intimidate someone stronger then them with a firearm to an intelligent citizen defending themselves from a threat.
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There is nothing more stupid than showing a pistol that you don't intend to use.
 
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