Why the IFR is soooo important -

comanchepilot

comanchepilot

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Joe Farrell, yeah, him
Sure = my airplane is capable - 530/ 60-2/ HSI etc - but last week was flying in central valley of Califorinia for about 75 min - and after about 30 min I realized that I no visual horizon due to haze and had been subconsciously performing a light scan of my instruments . .. heading, VSI, altimeter and gyro for the last 20 min or so combined with looking outside and at the Mode S traffic.

So there I was basically in IMC even though it was clear - and was back to my scan 'light' because subconsciously I'd noticed that I did not have any horizon reference. Then all of sudden my conscious brain uncovered what I was doing -

A couple thousand of hours and lots of IMC experience helps the subconscious part of it - but I can imagine a lot time VFR pilot spending a lot of time struggling with keeping the airplane on course and level even if trimmed up ok -

GO GET THAT IFR RATING!
 
My personal conjecture is that it's not that pilots can't fly on instruments but they don't realize when the NEED to be flying by instruments. Staring into the murk or dark can get you in trouble unless someone smacks you upside the head and tells you to look at the gauges.
 
comanchepilot said:
Sure = my airplane is capable - 530/ 60-2/ HSI etc - but last week was flying in central valley of Califorinia for about 75 min - and after about 30 min I realized that I no visual horizon due to haze and had been subconsciously performing a light scan of my instruments . .. heading, VSI, altimeter and gyro for the last 20 min or so combined with looking outside and at the Mode S traffic.

So there I was basically in IMC even though it was clear - and was back to my scan 'light' because subconsciously I'd noticed that I did not have any horizon reference. Then all of sudden my conscious brain uncovered what I was doing -

A couple thousand of hours and lots of IMC experience helps the subconscious part of it - but I can imagine a lot time VFR pilot spending a lot of time struggling with keeping the airplane on course and level even if trimmed up ok -

GO GET THAT IFR RATING!
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Yep. Been there, done that. If you're up at 7.5K and the visibility is three miles, you might see a spot on the ground right below you if you stick your head out the window or bank the plane, but bye-bye horizon.
 
some chest thumping going on there, eh? Ok, ok...I'm doing it... I bought a cd/online course and I'm starting to study for the Written, though I have been dabbling in it for some time here and there... I'm ready to buckle down...
 
Written this Winter, and flying portion Spring/Summer.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
You're getting too used to that western viz, Joe. Just sounds like a normal summer vfr day here in the east.
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yeah - but there is usually a horizon even on the bad days - bad meaning 5 or less viz in summer.

I'd say it was CLR for the whole flight but certainly had points where viz even at 8500 may have dropped to less than 3 miles -
 
Sac Arrow said:
Yep. Been there, done that. If you're up at 7.5K and the visibility is three miles, you might see a spot on the ground right below you if you stick your head out the window or bank the plane, but bye-bye horizon.
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everybody thinks cause its clear is beer and skittles - but the central valley is a real bear this time of year - patches of fog, usually over airports- make ops a little challenging - the sun is never strong through the haze . .
 
I have been in similar situations and appreciated the IFR. I would encourage those interested to pursue it.
 
Us VFR types in the SE fly that way 6 months out of the year. It is just something that goes with the territory.
 
kyleb said:
Us VFR types in the SE fly that way 6 months out of the year. It is just something that goes with the territory.
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Ironically this IFR type in the SE climbs up above the convective layer on top of the haze and stays in VMC between the clouds. Flying IFR on typical SE VFR days keeps it legal and easy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
kyleb said:
Us VFR types in the SE fly that way 6 months out of the year. It is just something that goes with the territory.
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More like 12 months every year. Occasional couple of IMC days here and there but I've flown in the SE for 40 years and flown every month VFR.
 
A couple of days ago I was offshore over Lake Huron at dusk. There was no horizon, none, zip. The sky and the water were seamless. No left, no right, no up, no down. I suspect it was the same condition that got JFK Jr.
 
I was baby pilot, took my wife for a dinner flight to a modestly-good restaurant in Oklahoma. Clear, but incredibly hazy... probably should have turned back, but didn't. A little... edgy.

The flight home at night was actually better, because I could see lights in the distance which created a bit of a horizon.

Now, flying at night in rural west Texas, a moonless night? One flight, Marfa to Ruidoso, was like flying inside a black bottle of ink. Freaky.
 
The visibility here in Arkansas has been insanely great the last week or so. It's been awhile since I've seen 60+ mile visibility.
 
A couple of summers ago I was at 12,500' over southeastern Oregon on a clear day. Smoke from ubiquitous western wildfires blanketed the region, with tops well above the ceiling of my airplane. There was no horizon, and the featureless terrain below was only barely visible. Flight visibility was probably more than ten miles, but there was nothing within ten miles to see. It was "legal VFR", but for a couple of hours I was definitely flying "solely by reference to flight instruments."
 
Dr. O said:
A couple of days ago I was offshore over Lake Huron at dusk. There was no horizon, none, zip. The sky and the water were seamless. No left, no right, no up, no down.
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That's why we have these:

artificial-horizon-attitude-indicator.png



Dr. O said:
I suspect it was the same condition that got JFK Jr.
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That's the theory...
 
Yep, JonJon was in the middle of his instrument training. He should have been able to fly on instruments if he KNEW HE SHOULD BE. My own personal conjecture is he's flying up the shoreline in a fairly built up area. Lots of visual cues. He starts his descent and turns out to the ocean and there's nothing to look at. Since he's on approach, he is low and has little time to realize he's losing control and needs to look at the AI.
 
What earning my IR opened my eyes to was the bad habit I had slipped into as a VFR pilot. I was making mostly the same flights to the same destinations, and my flight planning had gotten weak, and at times even non-existent. I had developed a "hop in the plane and take off" mentality. Besides sharpening my flying skills, it really got me into the mindset of "executing a flight" instead of just "flying the plane."
 
The weather along the gulf coast is so fickle during parts of the year. You really need a IFR if you want to actually do long XC.

I learned that from fishing out in the GOM. Storms will show up out of nowhere and the forecast is useless.
 
Get your IFR rating for crissakes!

Just finished a flight from KAGC to 8NC8. I delayed my planned 8am departure until 11am for some wx improvement but still faced low ceilings and icy clouds. Bases 1k to 3k AGL tops at 8k according to the briefing. All below freezing.

Decided to takeoff and fly to BURGS VFR where I thought I'd be able to reach MVA for an IFR clearance to HVQ for a look around, fully prepared to fly out a very circuitous route and possibly not get home. I hoped to be able to find either some broken clouds or the edge of the overcast so I could climb up, don my sunglasses and fly over the Appalachians to Durham NC.

Flight worked out great. A few miles past BURGS I was able to climb up to 3k and then got a report that local tops were as low at 5k. I decided to try a climb - entered at 3800 and broke out at 5200. I love my '10.

However, just after breaking out I heard some bozo Mooney pilot check-in with Clarksville "VFR at 6500". Say what! There's no reasonable flight plan that results in one ending up on top of this icy deck with the intent of landing within 50 miles. Maybe he's just passing thru. But No, he intends to land somewhere in Clarksville's coverage area. He clearly and calmly explains that he just needs some help finding a thin spot to penetrate with enough room underneath for him to return to VMC before (impact).

Clarksville explains that they are unaware of any breaks (this side of the mountains) but the pilot continues to ask for a 'thin spot' that he can safely 'penetrate'. Okay, now I'm thinking this is either an emergency due to poor planning or he wants a clearance. But it slowly becomes clear that 1) this was 'planned, 2) he doesn't want a clearance because is neither equipped or qualified and 3) he wants option 3, i.e. ATC help with illegally punching down thru a solid icy undercast without killing himself. Oh, and he is definitely using the AP.

As the controller realizes the above he does the right thing by staying as calm as the pilot. He deftly hands him off to Indy Center. I try unsuccessfully to follow but am rewarded with his return to Clarksville approach. Seems like Indy Center threw him back as fast as they could. The dialog continued until I could no longer listen.

Don't do this! Get your rating and get it wet, or stay home on days like today. Please.
 
flyingron said:
Yep, JonJon was in the middle of his instrument training. He should have been able to fly on instruments if he KNEW HE SHOULD BE. My own personal conjecture is he's flying up the shoreline in a fairly built up area. Lots of visual cues. He starts his descent and turns out to the ocean and there's nothing to look at. Since he's on approach, he is low and has little time to realize he's losing control and needs to look at the AI.
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If only his instructor had taught him how to use the auto pilot.....

And yes, it might have already been too late for the auto pilot or switching to instruments when he realized something was wrong.
 
My CFI DPE made me do the, "Put your head down, then turn it sideways, close your eyes... now fly the plane and keep it level as long as you can..." thing, during my recent CFI ride.

Nobody can do it. Nobody. Eventually the airplane will roll and the CFI will tell you to look up, and you'll have to recover from the graveyard spiral.

He had me do it so he could follow up with, "PLEASE tell every one of your students that they are going to DIE if they fly VFR into IMC without Instrument training and show them this. Okay look up, and recover."
 
If only his instructor had taught him how to use the auto pilot.....
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I believe it was non-functional at the time. And again, if he had the presence of mind to engage it he probably wouldn't have lost control to begin with.
 
Bill Watson said:
Ironically this IFR type in the SE climbs up above the convective layer on top of the haze and stays in VMC between the clouds. Flying IFR on typical SE VFR days keeps it legal and easy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I used to have a house in Beaufort SC and lived in CT to work - and flew the Comanche back and forth for 5 years.

I would definitely climb above the haze layer all the time - in summer you want to see those buildups well in advance so you can deviate. . . .
 
Around DC, Philly and NYC you get that brown line at the top of the inversion that kinda looks like a horizon.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Around DC, Philly and NYC you get that brown line at the top of the inversion that kinda looks like a horizon.
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Actually thats a smug line, and it will stain your paint
 
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