Why does the FAA hate ADHD so much?

Many Military Special Operators have a touch of ADHD. The stress of combat that would overwhelm most people brings them up to a normal level of focus. They can pay attention very well to subjects that interest them. The same bored kid who got in trouble in school and quit college can lie in a sniper hide site for days watching a target.

The military will waiver a childhood ADHD diagnosis if you don't currently need meds.

I'll bet there are plenty of fighter pilots with an ADHD diagnosis in their childhood.
 
Is the FAA's issue with the diagnosis, or the medication?
 
It’s the perceived liability.

So there I was… 6th grade, only kid in my class, about 20 kids k-6 total, little country schoolhouse. Maybe kinda sorta causing problems…. LONG story short, had a shrink come check me out. This was the 70s instead of the 90s…. Shrink said I was bored!

Pulled me out of the school, anted up the tuition to send me into town for the last 3 months of 6th grade. Went from straight c’s to straight a’s. Advanced placement in junior and senior high, appointment to naval academy.

Of course during the course looking at a couple schools in town, the math teacher at Pershing was also the principal, retired colonel who jumped into Normandy! He loomed over me and said “son, are we gonna have ANY problems from you?” “No, sir”. And that was that!

I feel things could have worked out quite differently today.
 
You get the right combination of the Mom(I say mom, cuz often they take them), a little errant behavior, then a certain doctor, here’s your diagnosis.
Yeah, rip on me because I’m not a doctor, but I’ve seen it for real.

On the other hand, keeping those with head problems out of the cockpit is a real concern. There are some caught up in the turmoil, that may not need to be.
 
geneseib said:
Seems to me that kids today are being electronically entertained all their waking hours. Thus, they do not develop the ability to exercise control over their mind.
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I think that's a factor but plenty of Gen X kids got saddled with that too and all we had were Hot Wheels, sticks, and garden hoses.
 
Cykoguy said:
A lot of broad strokes in this thread...

As a parent of a child likely with ADHD and in a six month wait to see a specialist to hopefully get some help I can assure you it is not just because he is on electronics all the time or that he is not disciplined. Hell the more I look back I likely have it to some extent, maybe getting help for potential ADHD and anxiety earlier would have helped me but here we are.

That all being said the FAA is completely behind the ball when it comes to mental health and I have no hope for it improving. Does it have an affect on one's ability to fly a plane? Maybe? Does undiagnosed and untreated alcoholism, depression, anxiety etc.? Absolutely.
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Exactly! I am a parent of an ADHD kiddo and looking at her it's been a mirror. Like holy crap, that was me! I struggled with the same things but I'm just fine as an adult. She wants to fly so badly even as a 10 year old girl, she wants to join CAP just so she can get closer to airplanes. She's smart and is very focused when she needs to be. But she's medicated. I hate to crush her dreams before she even really gets going.

If we can have pilots who are damn near blind pass a medical with corrective lenses why can't we have more consideration for ADHD?
 
Stewartb said:
Like millions of other kids he was prescribed meds in grade school for ADHD.
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Hopefully not shooting myself in the foot... (lol)
But I can't be the only one who has no idea what was or was not diagnosed and/or prescribed for me when I was in 2nd grade? The concept of electronic health records did not even exist back then.
 
I still would like to see the venn diagram of "people sufficiently impaired by ADHD to be a menace as a pilot" intersecting with "people sufficiently impaired by ADHD, yet, still successfully pursue and complete a pilot certification"

I don't imagine the danger from that little slice in the middle to be worth the hand-wringing, expense, and aggravation to those who are functional despite this dx.

"Sigh" :)
 
You don’t know what you don’t know. My 7 year old grandson is ADHD. It’s more than “boys being boys.” He has difficulty managing his self control and meds help. He’s both a delight and a devil. Coincidentally he’s also classified by the local ISD as gifted, and about that there’s no doubt. He’s so smart it’s scary. I’m sure his future is bright but that’s assisted by meds, and finding the best one is a process. The FAA may never allow him to be a pilot but he may be the one designing the spacecraft pilots will be flying.
 
I can’t stand that society is eliminating variations of normal, and is too quick to create a diagnosis and treatment to “normalize” everyone not within their limited definitions. Yes, there are always folks at the extremes that could benefit from intervention, but the vast majority are just developing through the normal physiological and hormonal changes that occur throughout childhood.
Those of you parents who have recognized this, and were advocates to keep your kids growing up normally, get to see the benefits as they grow into beautiful, productive and capable adults, and without those insidious diagnoses. And while those medications can be helpful at the extremes, the side effects unfortunately can be all too real.
 
labbadabba said:
Exactly! I am a parent of an ADHD kiddo and looking at her it's been a mirror. Like holy crap, that was me! I struggled with the same things but I'm just fine as an adult. She wants to fly so badly even as a 10 year old girl, she wants to join CAP just so she can get closer to airplanes. She's smart and is very focused when she needs to be. But she's medicated. I hate to crush her dreams before she even really gets going.

If we can have pilots who are damn near blind pass a medical with corrective lenses why can't we have more consideration for ADHD?
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Or without arms. Or, or, or. Preach brother.
 
Stewartb said:
You don’t know what you don’t know. My 7 year old grandson is ADHD. It’s more than “boys being boys.” He has difficulty managing his self control and meds help. He’s both a delight and a devil. Coincidentally he’s also classified by the local ISD as gifted, and about that there’s no doubt. He’s so smart it’s scary. I’m sure his future is bright but that’s assisted by meds, and finding the best one is a process. The FAA may never allow him to be a pilot but he may be the one designing the spacecraft pilots will be flying.
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I definitely know nothing.

Serious question though, at risk of harping on the wrong concept -- unmedicated, do you think your grandson could succeed at a PPL? It sounds like he's the menace the FAA is trying to keep out of the sky, whereas it seems like he couldn't get there under the current regime anyway?
 
schmookeeg said:
I definitely know nothing.

Serious question though, at risk of harping on the wrong concept -- unmedicated, do you think your grandson could succeed at a PPL? It sounds like he's the menace the FAA is trying to keep out of the sky, whereas it seems like he couldn't get there under the current regime anyway?
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At 7 years old? No. If he grows out of the issue next year should he have to jump through hoops 10 years later?
 
MajorTurbulence said:
I can’t stand that society is eliminating variations of normal, and is too quick to create a diagnosis and treatment to “normalize” everyone not within their limited definitions. Yes, there are always folks at the extremes that could benefit from intervention, but the vast majority are just developing through the normal physiological and hormonal changes that occur throughout childhood.

Those of you parents who have recognized this, and were advocates to keep your kids growing up normally, get to see the benefits as they grow into beautiful, productive and capable adults, and without those insidious diagnoses. And while those medications can be helpful at the extremes, the side effects unfortunately can be all too real.
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All of this, times a million. Being heavily involved in Scouts for almost 10 years now, I've witnessed hundreds of kids growing up. I get to see their growth in a way many teachers never do, because they often don't see more than a few years with a single kid. There are *vast* differences in the rates of maturity within the population. I was worried a bit about the differences between my own two kids until I saw how varied it was among many other kids, from a wide variety of socio-economic circumstances and cultural upbringing.
 
Everyone’s an expert.

There’s no doubt that there are many kids who are diagnosed with ADHD merely because they’re on the energetic side. Boys being boys. Call them Group A.

Then there’s Group B, the ones about whom the diagnosis was initially described. They’re the ones who pull down the curtains and set them on fire because “I don’t know.” They pull the wings off of flies and burn them with magnifying glasses. They tear up their siblings’ stuffed animals and put them in the garbage disposal. You can’t punish this behavior away because the kid is already onto misbehavior #3 when you’re punishing him for misbehavior #1.

The FAA acts as if everyone with a diagnosis of ADHD is Group B. And people in this group really have no business being pilots. The general public, who have only seen a couple of Group B people in their lives, think everyone with an ADHD diagnosis is Group A.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Everyone’s an expert.
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Not an expert, but I have an opinion. Is that not ok?

OneCharlieTango said:
There’s no doubt that there are many kids who are diagnosed with ADHD merely because they’re on the energetic side. Boys being boys. Call them Group A.

Then there’s Group B,
. . .
The FAA acts as if everyone with a diagnosis of ADHD is Group B. And people in this group really have no business being pilots. The general public, who have only seen a couple of Group B people in their lives, think everyone with an ADHD diagnosis is Group A.
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I don't know why you would say that. I think most people understand there are legitimate ADHD diagnoses. That doesn't mean that there isn't a real problem with kids of a higher energy level being labeled ADHD and drugged into submission.

I don't know which group is larger (A or B), but I feel strongly that drugging kids in group A is plain WRONG.
 
I think people have to realize - the FAA doesn’t know whether they are group A or group B. They don’t any of the dx cases up in the air - period. Full stop. It’s safer for them. HOWEVER - they will allow it if you can prove to them that you are functional and essentially a group A participant and not B. The burden of proof is on your side. Not sure why people have an issue with proof before certification. Yes it’s expensive and they want you to use someone they trust and not just anyone. And yes you can get any doc friend to write that you are ok. So they trust their own - which are less likely to be influenced to write something that isn’t really true. But the avenue is there to get this done.

It’s people who believe that their version is functional (and not the faas) is where the issue comes in.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Everyone’s an expert.

There’s no doubt that there are many kids who are diagnosed with ADHD merely because they’re on the energetic side. Boys being boys. Call them Group A.

Then there’s Group B, the ones about whom the diagnosis was initially described. They’re the ones who pull down the curtains and set them on fire because “I don’t know.” They pull the wings off of flies and burn them with magnifying glasses. They tear up their siblings’ stuffed animals and put them in the garbage disposal. You can’t punish this behavior away because the kid is already onto misbehavior #3 when you’re punishing him for misbehavior #1.

The FAA acts as if everyone with a diagnosis of ADHD is Group B. And people in this group really have no business being pilots. The general public, who have only seen a couple of Group B people in their lives, think everyone with an ADHD diagnosis is Group A.
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I know someone who definitely had it, but doesn't fit into either of those categories. He wasn't merely on the energetic side, and definitely needed medication, but he never engaged in the destructive behavior that you describe, that I ever heard. He was very interested in flying, but has gone into automotive technology instead. (I haven't heard whether he has been able to get a driver's license, so I don't know whether he will be eligible for a sport pilot certificate.)
 
Everyone has ADHD if they want to or their parents want them to be. In my opinion it's a shift from discipline to distraction. Seems parents will buy all sorts of gadgets, ipads, fidget things to not have to discipline or parent a kid. Actions have consequences so I have no problem with the FAA holding their ground on this issue. Then again most of the FAA knows nothing about medical or Aviation topics for that matter so...
 
Brad Smith said:
General question: Do you suppose that there is more ADHD today than there was 40 years ago? Is there something that is causing such a wave of people with ADHD that was not in society 40 years ago? In most of my classes growing up in the 60's and 70's there was usually 1 student that had trouble paying attention in class. Now it seems like there are 50% of the students in class that can't pay attention and are drugged into submission. Perhaps we've introduced something into society that is feeding ADHD? Are there statistics or proof that something has changed or was it always around and we just make a bigger deal about it today? Perhaps the pharmaceutical industry with the help of medical professionals are making huge profits producing and subscribing drugs to kids that really just need better discipline from parents? Inquiring minds want to know...
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And a number those kids not paying attention, are doing so because they are bored.

I wonder if the trend to not separating students by ability has risen in more bright students in classes with not so bright ones, where the teacher has to teach to the least bright. Leveling more students bored out of of their minds listening to something being explained for the 5th time, that they understood the first time.
 
Pinecone said:
I wonder if the trend to not separating students by ability has risen in more bright students in classes with not so bright ones, where the teacher has to teach to the least bright. Leveling more students bored out of of their minds listening to something being explained for the 5th time, that they understood the first time.
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This is absolutely a problem, exacerbated by large class sizes where the teacher doesn't have time to provide an alternative assignment to the 20% of the class that is way head of the other 80%. Under our current standardized testing performance requirements teachers are often stuck spending >50% of their time on the bottom 20% of the class, who probably should have been started in school a year later than they were and/or who needed a better pre-school learning environment to get where they needed to be.
 
Some of what may be perceived as Attention Deficit may be be applicable to a large portion of the population. Many folks tend to “ wander” after 15 minutes of a lecture.

Rather than the “ Data Dump” style of teaching a good instructor should develop
the ability to “ read” the class and recognize this.

Once you know this is taking place there are many strategies the effective teacher can use to retain interest in the lesson. All involve some form of “ shifting gears”.

Walk to a different position in the room.

Ask a question and pick a student to pick the person to answer.

Ask multiple questions that the students already know the answer to.

Kick the garbage can.

Insert humor.

Most videos are often sleep machines . Try to limit them to under 10 minutes.
My preference is to have a VHS tape ( remember them?) cued up so you can show 2 or 3 I minutes.

Use paper handouts rather than PowerPoint . Or vice versa.

Folks would much rather handle a rusty/ oily Crankshaft or magneto rather than see a picture of one.

Many of these methods will reset the clock on “ attention”. Key is to INVOLVE the
class rather than TALKING AT THEM.
 
I also worry that alot of what used to be “within range of normal variations” or “not clinically significant as a deficiency” are now being lumped-into treatment regimes. is it “because we are more aware of the conditions” or is it because the goalpost is moving on what is normal vs a deficiency? There’s also a significant moral hazard from profit-driven healthcare e.g: there is a profit-motive to try to monetize things that use to be accepted as “hey that’s just life”.

importantly to the point: who gets to decide the cutoff from “within normal human variation” to “clinically significant and needs treatment” ?!

(this is not to ignore or dismiss those who are truly “at the extremes of the scale” and need extra help or medications, etc.)

Magman said:
Rather than the “ Data Dump” style of teaching a good instructor should develop
the ability to “ read” the class and recognize this.

Once you know this is taking place there are many strategies the effective teacher can use to retain interest in the lesson.
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I’m not a professional teacher but I do teach classes and training sessions as part of other hobbies and this matches what I’ve seen and been taught about “the fundamentals of instructing”

I once heard a teacher say that “Teaching is a performance art”, and that makes alot of sense. Eg to the point above, you have to “read the room” it’s not supposed to be a one-way lecture. unfortunate this point is being lost: economic pressures want the convenience of a canned video.
 
I remember back in the day the ‘Nun’ told my Mom I was a ‘day-dreamer’ in class. It wasn’t really meant as a totally bad thing, just that my mind went off to other thoughts.

Could this have been ADHD before ADHD was a thing? Now I’m wondering if I have to report such on my next medical? Come to think of it, I may of lost my train of thought a few times over the years, I’m screwed.
 
labbadabba said:
There are millions of people with the diagnosis, many of whom have managed just fine without medication.

There are millions more who deal with it without a diagnosis. Yet whether you're on meds or not, or have EVER taken anything for it, the FAA thinks this is a really big deal.
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Yes, the FAA thinks people diagnosed with inattention and hyperactive-impulsive behavior might be unfit as pilots. What could they possibly be thinking.
 
Is it fact that being able to sleep after drinking coffee is a sign of ADHD ?
 
If somebody has a Class III and then at age 45 they get diagnosed with ADHD and they want to take the medication because it improves their life then they can switch to Basic Med and fly. Did I get that right?
But now if somebody without a Class III at age 15 gets diagnosed with ADHD and they want to take the medication because it improves their life then they can not get Basic Med and only have the Sport Pilot route. Is that also correct?
 
Mongoose Aviator said:
If somebody has a Class III and then at age 45 they get diagnosed with ADHD and they want to take the medication because it improves their life then they can switch to Basic Med and fly. Did I get that right?
But now if somebody without a Class III at age 15 gets diagnosed with ADHD and they want to take the medication because it improves their life then they can not get Basic Med and only have the Sport Pilot route. Is that also correct?
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I've pondered this EXACT question...
 
Mongoose Aviator said:
If somebody has a Class III and then at age 45 they get diagnosed with ADHD and they want to take the medication because it improves their life then they can switch to Basic Med and fly. Did I get that right?
But now if somebody without a Class III at age 15 gets diagnosed with ADHD and they want to take the medication because it improves their life then they can not get Basic Med and only have the Sport Pilot route. Is that also correct?
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I believe that's correct.

And it's that way for a host of conditions and medications. The success of Basic Med is beginning to show just how unneccessary Class 3 is.
 
Cykoguy said:
Unfortunately it appears that a significant majority of the board (I am willing to guess 95%+ of them are over 45-50) believe that.
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I didn't read the responses quite that way. I think there is probably an aspect of ADHD diagnosis that involves many modern parents' looking to assign a medical reasoning to child misbehavior which might include some symptoms of ADHD, but could also just the bell curve of normal adolescent behavior. Many of the medical professionals may not be as hesitant to resist a parent who is insisting on getting a prescription for Adderall to address the issue, when it could very well be "just a phase" of the young child. That doesn't discount the fact that there are a ton of kids who DO need medical assistance to help combat the ADHD combined with better scientific/medical knowledge of the disorder and how to spot those symptoms. I doubt that most of the board think that the vast majority of kids labeled as ADHD simply need to have parents whipping their hind-ends to straighten them out.
 
Doug Reid said:
My son is retiring from teaching for this very reason..there is no discipline at home or at school for the most part.
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This is a big part of why I am no longer in the classroom too. The problem I had was more with the adult parent figures than the children that mimicked their behavior in public.
 
Tools said:
It’s the perceived liability.

So there I was… 6th grade, only kid in my class, about 20 kids k-6 total, little country schoolhouse. Maybe kinda sorta causing problems…. LONG story short, had a shrink come check me out. This was the 70s instead of the 90s…. Shrink said I was bored!

Pulled me out of the school, anted up the tuition to send me into town for the last 3 months of 6th grade. Went from straight c’s to straight a’s. Advanced placement in junior and senior high, appointment to naval academy.

Of course during the course looking at a couple schools in town, the math teacher at Pershing was also the principal, retired colonel who jumped into Normandy! He loomed over me and said “son, are we gonna have ANY problems from you?” “No, sir”. And that was that!

I feel things could have worked out quite differently today.
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Sounds oddly familiar, except it was the 80's.
 
SoonerAviator said:
...I doubt that most of the board think that the vast majority of kids labeled as ADHD simply need to have parents whipping their hind-ends to straighten them out.
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Don't assume that. And don't conflate ADHD issues with corporal punishment issues.

I believe at least half of all boys who at one time or another were diagnosed with ADHD were done so out of convenience to teachers, parents, doctors, and big-pharma. I also personally know there are legitimate diagnoses, and I've seen drugs help.

Thank God ADHD was not in fashion back when I was a young boy! My problem was school was so painfully, ploddingly slow. It took my parents, who were allowed to be closely involved with my education, to figure out AP classes and out of school engagement were the key.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
They’re the ones who pull down the curtains and set them on fire because “I don’t know.” They pull the wings off of flies and burn them with magnifying glasses. They tear up their siblings’ stuffed animals and put them in the garbage disposal
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You make it sound so cheap.
 
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