Who let this guy solo?

MacFlier said:
lol... I also didn't find the airport on my first XC solo flight.
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On my long solo cross country (when it was still 300NM) I got lost between Panama City and Albany GA. I think I contacted FSS and asked them something and they asked if I wanted a DF steer and I declined. I eventually found it. lol.
 
To those who think the controller is at fault although I can't fathom why: I think the controller did just fine. With the abbreviated com recording, we didn't hear everything that was said nor did we hear every other aircraft out there he had on frequency. From experience it is extremely hard to get other planes "out of the way" when your instructions to them are based on what you told the student to do..and he isn't doing it. Controllers don't have crystal balls, just a radar scope.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Controllers don't have crystal balls, just a radar scope.
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Some airports they don't even have that. KFIN is a very busy puppy mill practice field. Tower has no radar and up to 6 simultaneous in the pattern. I have a lot of respect for their patience. Can hardly understand many of the calls and all of them take about 2 to 4 times as long as needed.
I had an alternator belt give out on climb out there. Called and said that I need to come back (as about 5 miles out). The guy in the tower cleared everyone out without me using the "E" word. Single runway, so not as complex as the OP, but was pretty awesome to see and hear.
 
Timbeck2 said:
To those who think the controller is at fault although I can't fathom why: I think the controller did just fine. With the abbreviated com recording, we didn't hear everything that was said nor did we hear every other aircraft out there he had on frequency. From experience it is extremely hard to get other planes "out of the way" when your instructions to them are based on what you told the student to do..and he isn't doing it. Controllers don't have crystal balls, just a radar scope.
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we're in the age of "always someone else to blame" and "hand holding", as mentioned in another post. sheeit, I'm surprised this solo guy isn't up for a 'participation trophy'.
 
eman1200 said:
we're in the age of "always someone else to blame" and "hand holding", as mentioned in another post. sheeit, I'm surprised this solo guy isn't up for a 'participation trophy'.
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No worries, he’ll be left seat at his home country airlines before you know it
 
Reminds me of the story about the student pilot calling the tower for assistance. They asked of he was lost and he said, "no, just a little unsure of my present location." When tower asked him his last known position the pilot replied, "Number one for take-off!" :confused:
 
Daleandee said:
Reminds me of the story about the student pilot calling the tower for assistance. They asked of he was lost and he said, "no, just a little unsure of my present location." When tower asked him his last known position the pilot replied, "Number one for take-off!" :confused:
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Sounds like some ATPs I’ve flown with. :eek:
 
Gateway can be busy. Unfortunately also a lot of foreign pilots training in this area with not such a great understanding of English. Though this fellow didn’t sound nearly as bad as some.
 
Doug Reid said:
Why are we teaching foreign pilots with poor english language skills how to fly in congested airspace ?
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Baptism by fire?

And English, when referring to the language, should always be capitalized. How's your Chinese?
 
BrianNC said:
On my long solo cross country (when it was still 300NM) I got lost between Panama City and Albany GA. I think I contacted FSS and asked them something and they asked if I wanted a DF steer and I declined. I eventually found it. lol.
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I still have my students do close to 250 - 300 mile x country. This 150 mile is BS.
 
TommyG said:
I still have my students do close to 250 - 300 mile x country. This 150 mile is BS.
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Mine ended up being over 400NM and in a 152. And with that outdated thing...what was it called? Oh yeah, a sectional.
 
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Doug Reid said:
Why are we teaching foreign pilots with poor english language skills how to fly in congested airspace ?
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Because there are so many, any where you do it will become congested. Check out Grand Forks, North Dakota airport on Flightaware any given day.
 
Be nice....I don’t know anyone who wasn’t scared ****less on their first solo flight. And several flights after...
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Gateway can be busy. Unfortunately also a lot of foreign pilots training in this area with not such a great understanding of English. Though this fellow didn’t sound nearly as bad as some.
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His problem wasn't a lack of understanding of English. His problem (one of them) was a woeful lack of understanding and familiarity with how pilots and ATC are supposed to interact.
 
flybill said:
Be nice....I don’t know anyone who wasn’t scared ****less on their first solo flight. And several flights after...
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My solo X-country was from Lemoore to Bakersfield in a C-150 with a single VOR, a paper sectional and my nav log. At the height of the garlic season, it was a bit hazy below 1,500' agl, so DR was a challenge. At one point, I actually found a town and flew past the water tower to read the name. I was scared I'd gotten lost. Turned out I was almost right on course.
 
Kritchlow said:
If true (and I don’t believe it is), it just shows how poor the DPE’s are for them to get through that many checkrides.
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It’s not what the DPEs are letting them get away with; it’s the fact that they know what’s going to be on the test, so they’re prepared for it.

A true example...tower told us to “go around, make right traffic”. My ATP/type rated copilot who was flying the airplane continued down final for another 300 feet before I had to intervene. She then started a turn to the left, which I had to correct. I had to instruct her to level off in the pattern before we busted the airspace above at almost 3000 AGL. Her brain was probably closer to “number one for takeoff” than it was to “cleared to land”.
 
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wilkersk said:
it was a bit hazy below 1,500' agl, so DR was a challenge.
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That's pilotage, not dead(ded)-reckoning. Both are concepts that aren't used, or understood, as well as they were before the widespread use of GPS.

Pilotage is the art of knowing where you are by reading a map and comparing it with the surrounding terrain and landmarks, while dead reckoning is the art knowing where you currently are by using a compass, your ground speed, a clock and an initial known position.

To be fair, it's difficult to get a student to commit to learning these skills when they know there can be a nice, pretty, magenta line on the display with just a few knob twists and button presses. And, that student, was your CFI's CFI.
 
flybill said:
Be nice....I don’t know anyone who wasn’t scared ****less on their first solo flight. And several flights after...
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I didn't solo until I was completely comfortable. It was a non-event.
 
flybill said:
Be nice....I don’t know anyone who wasn’t scared ****less on their first solo flight. And several flights after...
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Mine was so long ago, I can’t remember the emotion but the airport was Wright Brothers (MGY). IIRC, they weren’t the FBO.

Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
Mine was so long ago, I can’t remember the emotion but the airport was Wright Brothers (MGY). IIRC, they weren’t the FBO.

Cheers
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Mine was just down the road, at I68 (Warren County / John Lane Field).
 
flybill said:
Be nice....I don’t know anyone who wasn’t scared ****less on their first solo flight. And several flights after...
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I wasn't... but the POA ROC prevent me from explaining why
 
Clearly, we must be a little isolated in the Phoenix Area.

At Falcon (FFZ) Deer Valley (DVT) and, to a lesser-degree Goodyear (GYR) we are assaulted with foreign pilots getting primary training.

Their command of English is commonly something between zero and negative-zero.

They're all around us like mosquitos.

It's the primary reason I moved from DVT to GYR.
 
And people wonder why a lot of the Phoenix approach controllers are grumpy all the time. I would be too if I had to repeat myself all the time.
 
So there is still this 'problem' in Phoenix? Here in Atlanta we had a major flight school with at least 3 locations shutdown and go out of business in the first month of quarantine because most of their students were from China.
 
Timbeck2 said:
To those who think the controller is at fault although I can't fathom why: I think the controller did just fine. With the abbreviated com recording, we didn't hear everything that was said nor did we hear every other aircraft out there he had on frequency. From experience it is extremely hard to get other planes "out of the way" when your instructions to them are based on what you told the student to do..and he isn't doing it. Controllers don't have crystal balls, just a radar scope.
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Well,......

Give a listen at 2:56 and following. The controller tells the student, "No, you're on the left downwind. Turn right, join the left downwind." Now that would have confused me if I didn't know where I were. If he's already on the left downwind (he wasn't), why tell him to turn right and join it?

Looking at the position of the aircraft I understand what the controller wanted, but a confused student would have been made more confused by the statement. It might have been helpful if the controller had called headings at this point.
 
I have no problem with "foreigners" coming here to learn to fly, but they should speak english well. That said I think the pilot in the OP spoke very well, I don't think he was able to understand where he was and more importantly, where he needed to go in reference to the airport. He did ask for help to his credit.
 
Half Fast said:
Well,......

Give a listen at 2:56 and following. The controller tells the student, "No, you're on the left downwind. Turn right, join the left downwind." Now that would have confused me if I didn't know where I were. If he's already on the left downwind (he wasn't), why tell him to turn right and join it?

Looking at the position of the aircraft I understand what the controller wanted, but a confused student would have been made more confused by the statement. It might have been helpful if the controller had called headings at this point.
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That's not what he meant. The controller gave him a heading within the first few seconds to ENTER the left downwind and he didn't take it. Then he gave him other headings with similar results. If a heading doesn't work, what do you suggest? The student was nervous, I get it. All he wanted was what HE wanted. I can't believe people who fault a controller (who is obviously handling a lot of other airplanes at the same time) for one pilot's ineptness.
 
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