who has right of way, backtaxi vs landing aircraft?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by rbridges, Apr 25, 2021.

  1. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    Got into a little debate. A CFI with a student flew in behind me after I landed. The taxiiway is closed due to FBO construction, so you have to backtaxi on the runway. Anyway, I turned around and announced I was starting my backtaxi to the hangars, but he got on the radio and told me I had to leave at the next available taxiway.

    I did it out of courtesy, but it got me wondering. Shouldn't a plane on the runway have priority and not landing traffic? It's an uncontrolled airport, and I announced every phase of the pattern. I moved just to help them, but it kinda got under my skin after I thought about it. Just wondering, who had the right of way?
     
  2. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

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    As I tecall the term Backtaxi went away a long time ago.
     
  3. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach

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    When I land the runway is mine until I’m done with it...
     
  4. Oldmanb777

    Oldmanb777 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I believe, Aircraft in the air would have the right of way in this case.
     
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  5. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pattern Altitude

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    The next plane can't land until the previous one has vacated the runway, but it's still bad manners and poor airmanship not to vacate as soon as possible.
     
  6. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    The aircraft that was behind you on final would have the right of way, technically speaking, but I’ve been in similar situations. I’ve landed and I end up being a little too fast to make the taxiway and can’t vacate quick enough, so the guy behind me ends up going around. It happens sometimes.
     
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  7. Piper18O

    Piper18O Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have flown into many uncontrolled airports that there is no or limited taxiways, and on certain stretches of the runway, the only option is to back taxi.

    It seems to me if the taxiway was closed, the only option would be to back taxi.
     
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  8. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    It’s a widely used term around here.
     
  9. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach

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    I don’t know for sure. But when I’m in the air and I land I use the runway as required. if i can modify my plan to help someone else then fine but its ******** for that cfi to be on the radio telling another aircraft they have to get off the runway
     
  10. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Agree.
     
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  11. OkieAviator

    OkieAviator Pattern Altitude

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    Just respond “unable” and watch out for him landing.
     
  12. rbridges

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    There's a section that's closed. I can leave but had to reenter to get tot he taxiway for the hangars.
     
  13. A1Topgun

    A1Topgun Cleared for Takeoff

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    I believe the aircraft on the runway is the “Landing” aircraft until they call “Clear of runway XX”. Does the CFI not know to do a go around? What if it was a deer on the runway? Would he call on the radio for the deer to get off the runway?
     
  14. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    That's my thinking. Just seemed rude. Didn't know if there was a specific. Rule for situations like this.
     
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  15. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pattern Altitude

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    Then, regardless of the legal situation, I'd exit the runway to let the traffic behind me land, then taxi back when there was a break in the traffic.
     
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  16. Piper18O

    Piper18O Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I would think very positively about your actions and certainly not so much of the airborne "ground controller" in your situation. Before he told you to get out of the way and exit the runway, did he preface it by saying "You on the runway, I have a Jet.....?"
     
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  17. Cogito

    Cogito Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Interesting article on right-of-way https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...ht-training-magazine/who-has-the-right-of-way

    Pertinent paragraph: "(g) Landing. An aircraft landing, or on final approach to land, has priority over all other aircraft in flight, or on the airport surface. Note that you cannot feed your ego by using this rule to force an airplane that just landed off the runway. I've seen pilots attempt this, and it's real scary."
     
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  18. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    I saw that, too. At uncontrolled airports, I think you have to use courtesy and common sense. If several airplanes were landing, we could all theoretically be stuffed at the far taxiway and cutoff from the hangars since landing aircraft has right of way.
     
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  19. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    I've done it before for others and I've extended downwind to give landing traffic time to backtaxi. It wasn't so much doing it, it was his tone that struck me later.
     
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  20. guzziguy

    guzziguy Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Agreed with comments before: I own that runway until I'm off it.
     
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  21. Piper18O

    Piper18O Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The aviation community is an awesome and special group of people when consideration for others in taken into account. When someone only thinks about himself, ugliness rears it's grotesque head.
     
  22. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    FAR 91.113 (g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach.....

    You were an airplane on the surface. So, was he trying to force you off the runway? Were you attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach?
     
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  23. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Do what we've done where there are no taxiways: You roll out all the way to the end and give yourself an exit into the grass if need be and let the guy land behind you and then both of you back Taxi. We've done three planes this way and all three of us have back taxiied.
     
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  24. Ravioli

    Ravioli Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    The only thing clear so far is a lack of understanding of "Land and Taxi Back" vs "Back Taxi"

    1) Show us an airport diagram, including any markups for the current closure(s)
    2) Did you ever clear the runway (you know, those silly painted lines) after landing? If no, it was still your runway. If yes, it is the landing aircrafts runway.

    I'm also curious how you guys are working **** out when the wind shifts. Sounds like a real cluster**** and a poorly thought out airport construction project.
     
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  25. rk911

    rk911 Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    that is what i was taught.
     
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  26. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    It's a pain, especially when your landing north. Hangars are to the south. There is a section of taxiway that is closed,so you must enter the runway at some point. To answer your question I never left runway, just turned around on it. The next taxiway exit was pretty far away still.
     
  27. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    As others mentioned, there are no regulations regarding taxiing courtesies, but as a general rule, you should get off the runway as soon as practicable when someone is approaching behind you.

    If i were in your shoes, knowing there is someone behind me in the pattern, I'd let them know in plain language where I was heading and ask whether there'd be enough time for me to quickly back taxi to my hangar. This also gives them time to extend their downwind to give you time, and extends them courtesy and consideration.

    That said, I don't support pilots/instructors or whoever using CTAF to give unsolicited flight instruction. I also don't like turning around on the runway and facing landing traffic if I don't have to either. Safety comes first, following regs second, etiquette third, and being "in the right" last.
     
  28. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route

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    The whole thing could gave been avoided if you announced that you would need a little extra time on the runway and give them a chance to extend their downwind.
     
  29. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    Completely agree about turning around on runway, but we've been doing it for several weeks,and the flight schools is aware of it. I guess I'm just wanting to know for myself what the rule is.
     
  30. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    I always end with full stop on my position broadcasts. It's a local flight school and they know hangars are at south end along with current fbo. No way to get there without staying on the runway. I guess I could have been more specific, but it's been this way for weeks.
     
  31. FancyG

    FancyG Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Say it did?
    What's the new term?​
     
  32. jimhorner

    jimhorner Line Up and Wait

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    I get it backtaxi instructions frequently from my Class C tower at San Jose (KSJC). Don't think it's gone away.
     
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  33. FORANE

    FORANE En-Route

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    If that CFI is based at your Field I would find him and ask him to educate you about it. Ask him to show you a reference.
     
  34. dtuuri

    dtuuri En-Route

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    §91.113 Right-of-way rules: Except water operations.

    (g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach.
     
  35. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    Two local fields I operate at regularly have no taxiways other than the ramp. It requires a little more planning and consideration is all.

    I try to work it out where I’m not in someone else’s way, but it would bug me of someone told me I had to get off the runway just because they didn’t want to fly a little longer downwind, or slow down in the first place when they come in behind me. Maybe the guy didn’t know of the closure.

    79D1DE26-7553-4123-92AE-BA5CE4EBD555.jpeg A3C49647-DBA1-43A1-B237-4EBDD796D33A.jpeg
     
  36. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The reg reads like this:

    (g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach.

    The time you spend on the runway clearing it after the landing is protected. You wanting to use the runway for expedience to taxi to parking is NOT.
     
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  37. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Not what the rules say. You are expected to make way for landing traffic to the extent that is possible.
     
  38. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Actually, there's nothing in the rules that prevents two aircraft from being on the runway at the same time other than the general "don't get so close as to be a hazard."
     
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  39. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Maybe the rules are different in Canadia where he's from, but I don't get where people think that it's a regulation that only one plane can be on a runway at once. We landed and stacked 3 or 4 of us at the end of one during Operation Good Cheer because someone was blocking the only taxiway to the ramp.
     
  40. GaryM

    GaryM Line Up and Wait

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    Was he flying a jet? Could be the guy from Bend...