Which would you choose? Support your answer

But 100K will get you a nice 182 for sure.

These days $100k will get you a nice Mooney 201. Less than $120 will buy a very nice turbocharged 231 with aftermarket intercooler and panel upgrades. No chute, but it'll give a Cirrus a good run.
 
Those covers are fresh out of the bag. What's he hiding?

And I know its your money, but I think you are barkin' up the wrong tree with buying a niche plane and clearly plan to sell soon. In your first post, you made it clear you didn't want anyone to talk you out of it, which tells me you know you might be making a poor choice, but don't want to face the music.

But bro, your narrow lane is forcing you into a crappy plane. $40k will get you into a nice Warrior/Archer/Cherokee 180 since you are a low wing guy. Selling will be much easier too. Take a step back and realize where you are going with this. You are not keeping the plane. On the grand scheme of things, very few people want a Gruman. Piper and Cessnas will sell.

I think you are setting yourself up for failure. "But daddy.... I want it NOW!" is in full effect and you are focused on today, not 2019 when you plan to buy that 182.





He sent me a lot more photos. Here is my favorite.

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These days $100k will get you a nice Mooney 201. Less than $120 will buy a very nice turbocharged 231 with aftermarket intercooler and panel upgrades. No chute, but it'll give a Cirrus a good run.

As long as you fly solo 99% of the time or you are a skinny ol man. Im 240 and could not fathom owning one. Just too narrow.
 
No way I'd take a PA28 over an AA5 for the same price. AA5 is easier to get in and out of. The handling is far bettter. PA28s fly like a truck. Flying with the canopy open on approach is just cool. Visibility is much better and I think they have more ramp appeal than PA28s. I also prefer electric flaps.

Can't go wrong with a Cheetah.
 
As long as you fly solo 99% of the time or you are a skinny ol man. Im 240 and could not fathom owning one. Just too narrow.

I'm 235 and you'll get no argument from me; but there's some others here who will disagree (imagine that :rolleyes: ).

I've owned only Pipers, and personally I wouldn't trade the cabin of your Lance or my cavernous Aztec for a Mooney (or a Grumman) but if one is a bit smaller proportioned, prefers a low wing, doesn't mind the closer confines of a Mooney cockpit, the single door and the bicep-building baggage compartment, they deliver a lot of performance for the prices they go for these days.
 
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No way I'd take a PA28 over an AA5 for the same price. AA5 is easier to get in and out of. The handling is far bettter. PA28s fly like a truck. Flying with the canopy open on approach is just cool. Visibility is much better and I think they have more ramp appeal than PA28s. I also prefer electric flaps.

Can't go wrong with a Cheetah.

Ive never flown one. But I have owned a PA28 and flown all the High wing Cessnas except the 337, and this comment is just brand loyalty and baseless. There is a reason Pipers dominate the advanced flight schools. Hell, ATP is taking delivery of something like 17 new PA28s this year alone! They are smooth, docile, forgiving and easy to fly.

Ramp appeal or WTF is that thing appeal? Be serious. True, some guys go to a strip club and like the one ugly chick. But when it comes time to settle down, they aint walkin down the isle with her. The Johnson bar flaps are far superior to an electric system. There is basically nothing to go wrong with them. But, if having that electric system makes you feel more like Maverick, more "power" to you I guess. But I'll take reliability over neat.

I do agree Vis should be much better. But, he's in TX and will pay for that with sweat.

The bottom line is I want Brian with a Y to think about his choice before diving in. If he WANTS a Grumman, hell, go for it. But we actually WANTS a Cessna 182 and the Grumman is chewed bubble gum in his Dam till pops sells the SR22 and cuts him off. If the SR22 is paid off, How much you wanna bet Pops will give it to him? Whats father wouldn't? So he may end up with a Grumman and a Cirrus on his FAA file.
 
Agree. Slick and fast little planes. Its like flying a suburban or a Miata. I actually almost bought a Rocket in 2014 but after the wife tightened up on my bawls, I had to put the pen down. I wanted the speed and power and was willing to give up the comfort for Corvette seating.

I'm 235 and you'll get no argument from me; but there's some others here who will disagree (imagine that :rolleyes: ).

I've owned only Pipers, and personally I wouldn't trade the cabin of your Lance or my cavernous Aztec for a Mooney (or a Grumman) but if one is a bit smaller proportioned, prefers a low wing, doesn't mind the closer confines of a Mooney cockpit, the single door and the bicep-building baggage compartment, they deliver a lot of performance for the prices they go for these days.
 
That's always my thoughts about these planes. Sweat and sunburn coming at ya fer sure.

Would seem the canopy solar exposure of the RVs is far worse. The Grumman is not transparent on the top of the canopy, and the wrap over the top of the side windows on the canopy doesn't seem any worse than any number of other more conventional entry airplanes, like a Bo.

Does the canopy of a Grumman have to be either full open or fully closed, or can it be taxied with it cracked open only?
 
Does the canopy of a Grumman have to be either full open or fully closed, or can it be taxied with it cracked open only?

It's on rails so can be anywhere while taxiing.

There's a placard with an arrow showing the maximum allowed in flight. Even there, it makes for a very windy ride!
 
Two words - Navion

(oh and for the RV's - occasionally I see them without the the Koger sun shade. Best $200 you can spend in the TX summer)
 
I should add, I am looking to buy a plane that I will likely have for 3-4 years and then will upgrade to something much more beefy.

I know your kids are younger, and you're probably not as stout as I am. But we bought a Cherokee 140 for sentimental reasons with a UL of 850#. We're already pushing gross if we want to fly any more than 1:30 or so. You'll get further on that 1:30 than I will, but it's pretty limiting when flying is a family affair.

I totally get the 40yo not wanting to mooch off Dad, thing though. Anyway you could use the money to buy into part of the Cirrus, and maybe slowly buy it off of him?
 
I think what people are trying to tell you, Bryan, is buy your last plane first.
 
I think what people are trying to tell you, Bryan, is buy your last plane first.

Basically. I bought my Archer thinking Id fly it for a few years and then step into a Bo or something bigger. Spent $$$$ refurbing the interior with leather, updating avionics and then sold it. In two years, I took probably a $10k real deal hit on that. My wife told me I was an idiot for doing the work, but I wanted it. Call it "paying the tuition of life". Maybe Brian with a Y needs to go to that school on his dime to learn it, but hopefully he will get over GottaGetItItis and realize the bigger picture.
 
But 100K will get you a nice 182 for sure.

Or a nice big engined C180 which will out run and perform all around better than a 182, plus get a factory seaplane and it'll have full corrosion proofing, some thing you won't find in any 182 or lance.


No way I'd take a PA28 over an AA5 for the same price. AA5 is easier to get in and out of. The handling is far bettter. PA28s fly like a truck. Flying with the canopy open on approach is just cool. Visibility is much better and I think they have more ramp appeal than PA28s. I also prefer electric flaps.

Can't go wrong with a Cheetah.


Exactly, the AA5 is a better aircraft, I never understood why people buy 172s or PA28s as their personal planes, it's like learning to ride a bike and then buying a bike that still has training wheels

Grumman handles better, higher wing loading makes for a comfy ride and better in cross winds, waaaaaay better visibility, slightly faster, easier to get in and out of, better ground handling (it can turn a 360 pivoting on one main wheel), better fuel gauges, just better.

I will disagree on the flaps, once you learn how to really use to manual flaps, for small aircraft, manual is the way to go, it allows you to manipulate your flaps in ways not possible with electric flaps.
 
Caveat: no experience in plane purchase, plenty in economics vs toys.

So you spend $40k on a plane that will be "hard" to sell in 3-4 years. "Hard" just means "dang, this thing is not selling at the speed I want at this price". The fix? Lower the price. So you lose $5-10k. So what. This is for toy (hobby) purposes. You're already "wasting" your money (it's like a boat). What's another few grand in the total entertainment budget?

Do it.

In this case, there is no more choice, the Tiger was junk, get the Cheetah.
 
I know your kids are younger, and you're probably not as stout as I am. But we bought a Cherokee 140 for sentimental reasons with a UL of 850#. We're already pushing gross if we want to fly any more than 1:30 or so. You'll get further on that 1:30 than I will, but it's pretty limiting when flying is a family affair.

I totally get the 40yo not wanting to mooch off Dad, thing though. Anyway you could use the money to buy into part of the Cirrus, and maybe slowly buy it off of him?


Sorry, didn't play by the rules (this Tiger or this Cheetah). If the Tiger were still in play, I would have recommended that, based largely on the frustrations I'm currrently experiencing. Avionics are easy to add, Airtex interiors aren't terribly expensive, and you can't improve UL. Since it's no longer an option, looks like it's the Cheetah (which looks awesome, BTW).
 
Basically. I bought my Archer thinking Id fly it for a few years and then step into a Bo or something bigger. Spent $$$$ refurbing the interior with leather, updating avionics and then sold it. In two years, I took probably a $10k real deal hit on that. My wife told me I was an idiot for doing the work, but I wanted it. Call it "paying the tuition of life". Maybe Brian with a Y needs to go to that school on his dime to learn it, but hopefully he will get over GottaGetItItis and realize the bigger picture.

I think it's a very rare individual that learns this lesson from someone else's mistakes. I think we all need our faces slapped at least once before we learn that. The best we can hope for is that it's only once, and we can afford it when it happens.
 
The Grumman is not transparent on the top of the canopy, and the wrap over the top of the side windows on the canopy doesn't seem any worse than any number of other more conventional entry airplanes, like a Bo.

My bad. I thought it was but now that I look at the pics, you're correct.
 
Exactly, the AA5 is a better aircraft, I never understood why people buy 172s or PA28s as their personal planes, it's like learning to ride a bike and then buying a bike that still has training wheels

Probably because most training occurred in them and people are comfortable with the airframes. I bought my Archer because it would do everything a 182 would do on 2 less cylinders. I have no desire for STOl or big tires for a gravel bar. Toting my fam around comfortably for the best price. Archer had the speed and load for the least cost.

I don't know what you mean by saying 172s/PA28s have training wheels. What makes you thing "anything" is better than those two airframes? Cessna and Piper are still in business. Grumman sold out and then made postal trucks and firetrucks. The planes have little support now, except for scrap yard shopping.
 
Besides that, if I could fit into something faster AND affordable, I would. I like to think the training wheels are off my 172 as much travelling as I've done with it, but who knows? The bottom line for me is that this is the best I can do and still be able to own and hangar it solo. Retirement isn't all that far off and climbing in and out of low wings is already hard on my knees. Combine the two (money & comfort) and where do you go?
 
Besides that, if I could fit into something faster AND affordable, I would. I like to think the training wheels are off my 172 as much travelling as I've done with it, but who knows? The bottom line for me is that this is the best I can do and still be able to own and hangar it solo. Retirement isn't all that far off and climbing in and out of low wings is already hard on my knees. Combine the two (money & comfort) and where do you go?

You don't have to justify your reasons for what plane you fly or prefer. There's always someone who "knows" that another plane is better just because he/she says so. 172 are fine planes, and good resale if you ever sell.
 
I know, I know...but I'm at the point I'm dreaming of flying something faster. Then I wake up! :(
 
You don't have to justify your reasons for what plane you fly or prefer. There's always someone who "knows" that another plane is better just because he/she says so. 172 are fine planes, and good resale if you ever sell.

Doesnt matter what is in my hanger. If its there, Ill fly it. What I really want is an Aircam right now. That and a Rotorway A600.
 
...Exactly, the AA5 is a better aircraft, I never understood why people buy 172s or PA28s as their personal planes, it's like learning to ride a bike and then buying a bike that still has training wheels...

Because at that stage in life that's about all I could afford. I bought a well worn 1961 Cherokee 160 for less than what most late model used Toyota Corollas were going for back then. Owning my own plane meant I could go more places and fly more hours on weekends than I could fighting with the students over the rental Warriors with their 3 hr/day minimum if you took them anywhere.

Plane had awful paint, a faded orange/brown cloth interior, easily one of the worst looking planes on any ramp, but was mechanically sound. Allowed me to fly my first two approaches in to Oshkosh, day before show openings, after 1200 nm journeys to get to Ripon. Stayed the full week both times (needed that long to recover for the trip home?). It also gave me a stable and confidence building platform with which to experience and try on every form of weather through the seasons in the mountainous area where I live - stuff you never experience doing solo cross countries as a student in a rental.

Tough,simple, durable, reliable and economic describe that plane. Never let me down away from home once in more than 300 VFR hours. Most expensive repairs: a new battery and a new fuel pump. Avionics upgrades: a Garmin handheld GPS, which I still have (in my personal antique airplane parts collection). Learned a ton about the care and feeding of an airplane from my mechanic who enthusiastically encouraged owners of simpler airplanes to get involved with their maintenance. Sold it to the first person that came to look at it for the same $ figure I bought it for.

No useable Grumman could be had anywhere near that purchase price back then. Moot point in any case...I am too tall and my legs too long to fit in a Grumman. Friend of mine bought a lovely Cheetah as his first plane a few years later and discovered that wee problem when I went along for a ride.
 
Wow... Um.

I like grummans sho there's that.

Asking for not other planes to be interjected had nothing to do with knowing I'm making a mistake, I just am 100 percent certain a don't want a bo or a Mooney.

I flew 150 hours in a tb9 that was a greenhouse with electric flaps in Texas and I loved that plane. This cheetahs looks to be 10-15kts faster and carry 100lbs more.

I have flown a 182,172, DA20,TB9, TB20, Cirrus, grumman traveler, tiger, and cheetah, a piper 160 and 180, Bo, and a 235 in the last 18 months.

I'm not going into this blind.

If it is hard to sell, so be it. I live well below my means and hopefully that will always be true.

I started vetting planes as potential purchases 19 months ago.

I actually like grummans. Is that a bad thing?
 
Also I just weighed the 4 of us and we have a combined weight of 440lbs.

I have NO clue how fast they will start packing on the weight. She is 8 and he is 9 so I expect the 850 UL will last awhile.
 
aren't they crack babies? should keep them pretty thin for a while.........
 
I actually like grummans. Is that a bad thing?

Not at all Bryan. Just like there are different makes of cars/trucks, same with planes. Sorta the "different strokes for different folks" thing.

The only one you have to satisfy is YOU, no one else. Do it!
 
wait, so u checked out the tiger, any word on the cheetah?
 
wait, so u checked out the tiger, any word on the cheetah?
It's being sold at indy air which is like a dealership and they are closed on the weekends apparently. I've sent a couple emails and voicemails
 
Wow... Um.

I like grummans sho there's that.


I actually like grummans. Is that a bad thing?

No, it's a very good thing. But you're the one who talked about trading "up" in a couple of years. You brought all these comments upon yourself. It's all aviation related though, so we're all good.
 
Probably because most training occurred in them and people are comfortable with the airframes. I bought my Archer because it would do everything a 182 would do on 2 less cylinders. I have no desire for STOl or big tires for a gravel bar. Toting my fam around comfortably for the best price. Archer had the speed and load for the least cost.

I don't know what you mean by saying 172s/PA28s have training wheels. What makes you thing "anything" is better than those two airframes? Cessna and Piper are still in business. Grumman sold out and then made postal trucks and firetrucks. The planes have little support now, except for scrap yard shopping.

Sadly lots of folks a creatures of habit to a fault.

What I meant by training wheels is that piper and Cessna made those two planes so easy to fly and stable that they had to make sacrifices in other areas.

Who's in business and not in business doesn't always have much to do with the quality of their product, and Grumman made lots of aircraft, many of which are highly regarded by experienced pilots.

I already stated the reasons I believe he AA5, and even AA1, line are better then PA28/172/152/0s, I've flown all of these aircraft, and the grummans just fly better, ground handle better, etc

I also have found the grummans handle more like high performance aircraft in the way they take off and land, I'd say a AA1/5 would transition to a mooney much better than a 172/52 or PA28

As far as me saying it's better because that's what I fly, I have never owned any of the above planes, and none of the above planes are much like my 185, infact if anything following the "it's not what he flys" logic, I should be more of a Cessna fan boy.

The grummans AA5 is better than the 172/PA28, but that's just one working pilot/instructors opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it.

Ether way, go fly the planes you're thinking about, and pick the one you like, I'd wager you'll end up liking how the grummans flys however
 
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