Where is PBOR2

bflynn said:
The House doesn't have to vote on their bill. They can vote on S.571, which the Senate has already approved. If the House approves S.571 without changes, then it passes Congress and goes to the president for signature. The original House version of the bill becomes irrelevant.
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Right, to which I beloved I addressed earlier, but if the house doesn't reintroduced the bill as s.572, that's irrelevant. And nobody has reintroduced.

You'll notice the notice the first time I was quoted, I did say "or reintroduced"
 
mkosmo said:
Right, to which I beloved I addressed earlier, but if the house doesn't reintroduced the bill as s.572, that's irrelevant. And nobody has reintroduced.

You'll notice the notice the first time I was quoted, I did say "or reintroduced"
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I think I'm done with parliamentary procedure -- I guess we'll just agree to say you are right when you aren't.
 
Well, get it done quickly because my 10 years since last medical is running out.
 
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Wow, that's some serious reform.

Under this you would be able to fly without a FAA medical as long as you first get a FAA medical from an AME, then every two years you get a FAA medical from a doctor, but now that doctor does not have to be an AME.

I hope they don't "reform" the Sport Pilot rules.
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As I mentioned elsewhere, I don't see this as improvement at all. I think the non-AME doc would be stricter, not more lenient, esp. if he/she starts contemplating liability exposure.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Wow, that's some serious reform.

Under this you would be able to fly without a FAA medical as long as you first get a FAA medical from an AME, then every two years you get a FAA medical from a doctor, but now that doctor does not have to be an AME.

I hope they don't "reform" the Sport Pilot rules.
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Actually the 24 month thing is what has been in there from the beginning of the attempt to get the 3rd class waiver I believe. It says a 24 month online medical training class. The exam is with your physician every four years. It just says he has to say you have to be under treatment of your own physician and he has to affirm that you can safely fly a plane.
 
Why The Face?!?!?!?!?! So... no more 3rd class medical exams, replaced with... another medical exam!
 
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
 
AS I mentioned before, here is your new 4th class medical.
 
StevieTimes said:
Why The Face?!?!?!?!?! So... no more 3rd class medical exams, replaced with... another medical exam!
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It was never about getting rid of the medical exam. It was always about getting rid of the combative relationship with Oklahoma City. The major difference is that now you and your doctor are in charge of determining...with guidance...when you are medically qualified. Ok, not now, but soon.

This is a pretty big victory.
 
I guess I was hoping for driver's license medical, a la sport pilot.

From a quick google search, it sounds like that was not going to happen.

I guess every four years is better than two. I know I'll still easily pass, it's just the time and money to go do it.
 
If your family doc does not pass you, you're not denied Sport Pilot.


This space intentionally left blank for future sarcasm.
 
N3368K said:
If your family doc does not pass you, you're not denied Sport Pilot.


This space intentionally left blank for future sarcasm.
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True, and good news for those who have held a class 3 previously.

BUT it seems that Sport Pilots who want to upgrade, but have never had a class 3, would have to go to an AME at least once and risk a denial. A denial would still revoke their Sport privileges.
 
So, I am confused... I have an expired 3rd class, I have concerns if i'd pass another medical (but medically fit to fly, can explain via PM). What's this mean for me
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Wow, that's some serious reform.

Under this you would be able to fly without a FAA medical as long as you first get a FAA medical from an AME, then every two years you get a FAA medical from a doctor, but now that doctor does not have to be an AME.

I hope they don't "reform" the Sport Pilot rules.
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Other than the requirement for the individual checklist to contain "boxes 3 through 13 and 16 through 19" of the 8500-8, I don't see anything new that wasn't already part of PBOR2 the last time this was discussed here. When you consider that information provided in those boxes is not necessarily disqualifying because the applicable law in the "disqualifying conditions under applicable law" are now those that would disqualify someone from holding a DL (plus the listed conditions that would require you to get a SI first), this really does look like a major step forward. The other part of the standard is that you should not have a condition that might interfere with safe operation of the aircraft, same as for LSA privileges. Whether a non-AME physician would be too liability-conscious to sign the form is still a concern of course, but we've had a number of pilots here report encouraging news after discussing it with their doctors, so I suspect it won't be as difficult as some have stated.

In all, I think this is progress, and it makes my own decision whether to try to get my medical back a bit more difficult. It could easily take a year before I have all my documentation together (idiot hospital bureaucracies) and OKC comes to a decision... and if that's a denial, then I'm screwed under the new rules. :(
 
this is a total failure. But, wait until EAA/AOPA/Everyone heralds this as an awesome victory!!
 
When I had a medical issue, my specialists had no problem writing letters stating that they thought I could go back to flying. They knew that these letters would be seen by FAA doctors because I told them I needed them for that purpose. But I can see that doctors have different ideas of risk tolerance, just like everyone else.
 
Everskyward said:
When I had a medical issue, my specialists had no problem writing letters stating that they thought I could go back to flying. They knew that these letters would be seen by FAA doctors because I told them I needed them for that purpose. But I can see that doctors have different ideas of risk tolerance, just like everyone else.
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I've done the same, probably more times than most. Not one of my docs hesitated.
 
Like I said, docs write letters for all kinds of things. My guy had to write a letter saying I wasn't overly affected by the gout. He could have easily been sued over that. I see this as a non issue. If my doc won't sign the thing I'll find one that will or get the 3rd class. At least I have options, which is more than I can say right now. Get the medical or fly toys.
 
steingar said:
Like I said, docs write letters for all kinds of things. My guy had to write a letter saying I wasn't overly affected by the gout. He could have easily been sued over that. I see this as a non issue. If my doc won't sign the thing I'll find one that will or get the 3rd class. At least I have options, which is more than I can say right now. Get the medical or fly toys.
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Regarding the "toys" part of that, I'm finding the Skycatchers I'm renting to be surprisingly capable airplanes, although I do admit that the limitations are a pain.
 
Palmpilot said:
Regarding the "toys" part of that, I'm finding the Skycatchers I'm renting to be surprisingly capable airplanes, although I do admit that the limitations are a pain.
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The limitations would be a non-starter for me, particularly the day and VFR only restrictions. If I had no other option, and no chance of things improving, I might go light sport, but I would never do it willingly.
 
steingar said:
Like I said, docs write letters for all kinds of things. My guy had to write a letter saying I wasn't overly affected by the gout. He could have easily been sued over that. I see this as a non issue. If my doc won't sign the thing I'll find one that will or get the 3rd class. At least I have options, which is more than I can say right now. Get the medical or fly toys.
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Sorry, the ground catchers look like toys to me, as do all the other new LSAs. The old ones are cool. But I fly at around 160 mph and like to go places. I can't see going places in an LSA. Better yet, I can't see going places and actually wanting to get there. I've gone places in small, slow, light airplanes. Not anxious to go there again.
 
azure said:
The limitations would be a non-starter for me, particularly the day and VFR only restrictions. If I had no other option, and no chance of things improving, I might go light sport, but I would never do it willingly.
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Same here, but I'm still managing to have fun!
 
steingar said:
Sorry, the ground catchers look like toys to me, as do all the other new LSAs. The old ones are cool. But I fly at around 160 mph and like to go places. I can't see going places in an LSA. Better yet, I can't see going places and actually wanting to get there. I've gone places in small, slow, light airplanes. Not anxious to go there again.
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Yes, they're definitely limited in capabilities. I have a LS-certificated friend who used to post here with whom I was trying to meet up when I still had my medical. Though we met up once a couple of years ago, after that she was never able to make it up into northern New England because of wx issues, either clouds or wind. An LSA is a manned kite as far as I'm concerned, and VFR only is quite limiting.

The thought of trying to make it home to Michigan in one is not very encouraging either, I'd need at least one fuel stop and possibly two, since I'd have to go around the south side of Lake Erie. At least it could be done in one day, more than I can say for driving. But VFR only would mean a lot of time on the ground waiting out weather most weeks, and a lot of time spent down low under cloud decks where the ride is anything but smooth.
 
sferguson524 said:
So, I am confused... I have an expired 3rd class, I have concerns if i'd pass another medical (but medically fit to fly, can explain via PM). What's this mean for me
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You need a medical within the last 10 years.
 
tinerj said:
You need a medical within the last 10 years.
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There's some wiggle language in there, essentially stuff you have to do (go to your doctor, take the courses, etc.), but if the FAA hasn't done its part by 1 year after becoming law, they can't come after you if you have done your part.

I don't think that you can just jump into the left seat after it is signed.
 
FWIW:

Pursuant to the provisions of H. Res. 809, S. 2943 is considered passed House as amended. (consideration: CR H4523) (Cite here)

The amendment is "H.Res.809 - Providing for consideration of the conference report to accompany the bill (S. 524) to authorize the Attorney General to award grants to address the national epidemics of prescription opioid abuse and heroin use; and for other purposes."

The rules committee approved a conference committee to get the senate to vote with this change (The amendment has large bipartisan support).

Senate leadership has stated they will vote shortly on the amended bill.

Keep your fingers crossed, but it does look very likely.
 
The "other purposes" wording sounds almost like a blank check. That part makes me a little nervous. :eek:

I guess cautious optimism is finally very much called for, though. :thumbsup:
 
RotorDude said:
As I mentioned elsewhere, I don't see this as improvement at all. I think the non-AME doc would be stricter, not more lenient, esp. if he/she starts contemplating liability exposure.
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Nothing is stopping you from going to an AME and getting a 3rd class. It will still exist.

And the whole liability thing is being blown way out of proportion. Doctors sign off on these kinds of judgement calls everyday with many different situations and topics.
 
Bonchie said:
Nothing is stopping you from going to an AME and getting a 3rd class. It will still exist.

And the whole liability thing is being blown way out of proportion. Doctors sign off on these kinds of judgement calls everyday with many different situations and topics.
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How many of these "judgment calls" involve approving operating fast moving complex equipment that could crash at high speed into people's homes, schools or businesses, loaded with screaming passengers? AFAIK, many physicians in high risk jobs (like ob/gyn) are leaving due to high liability insurance costs. What would the liability insurance premium be like for these docs? (Remember AMEs never certify pilots to fly, only that their condition falls within certain government-defined criteria.)
 
RotorDude said:
How many of these "judgment calls" involve approving operating fast moving complex equipment that could crash at high speed into people's homes, schools or businesses, loaded with screaming passengers?
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You mean like a soccer mom on Xanax driving a Suburban or a commercial truck driver?
 
N3368K said:
You mean like a soccer mom on Xanax driving a Suburban or a commercial truck driver?
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How many of those crash into homes and businesses? And beyond that, how many of those drivers get a "clean bill of health" report from a doctor that specifically authorizes them to operate their vehicle?
 
RotorDude said:
How many of those crash into homes and businesses? And beyond that, how many of those drivers get a "clean bill of health" report from a doctor that specifically authorizes them to operate their vehicle?
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I'd venture far more cars and trucks crash into homes and business than airplanes. As MX Ops Mgr for a large national retailer, we had 100+ cars and trucks run into our buildings in the last dozen years. Zero airplanes.

If a doctor is prescribing Xanax or other happy pills to Soccer mom, you bet he is authorizing it. Commercial drivers of many large trucks (which we all drive amongst daily) require a DOT physical, which according my doc is more stringent than an FAA physical in regards to real medical issues which really matter.
 
N3368K said:
I'd venture far more cars and trucks crash into homes and business than airplanes. As MX Ops Mgr for a large national retailer, we had 100+ cars and trucks run into our buildings in the last dozen years. Zero airplanes.

If a doctor is prescribing Xanax or other happy pills to Soccer mom, you bet he is authorizing it. Commercial drivers of many large trucks (which we all drive amongst daily) require a DOT physical, which according my doc is more stringent than an FAA physical in regards to real medical issues which really matter.
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Let's hope you are right. We are on the same side, I am just more skeptical.
 
My doc has already said no problem since she already does the DOT, but I understand everyone's concern. PBOR3 may be legislation to protect the docs. ;)
 
A discussion last night at our flying club meeting on potential impact to insurance if some portion of our members no longer have or need 3rd class medicals. Thoughts and speculation?
 
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