When will Flight Schools begin offering Sport Pilot Training for their legacy MOSAIC aircraft?

Dana said:
The medical aspect of the regulations hasn't changed with MOSAIC; only the type of airplanes a SP can fly has been expanded. If Cubs and other LSAs haven't been falling out of the sky for the past 20 years because their DL-medical pilots have a health issue, there's no more likelihood that 172s and Bonanzas will now. So please give it a rest.

Now, you're you're talking about a 20 hour SP jumping in a heavier and faster plane and killing himself, that's a more valid concern. All I can say is, "we'll see," and point out that almost nobody, SP or PP, gets their certificate in the minimum hours. There will be, for sure, a few new SPs with more money than brains buying a fast airplane and screwing it up, but that's nothing new. But for most, renters and insurance companies will keep it from happening by requiring transition training.
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Bear in mind that 172s and Cherokees are easier to fly than LSAs, and they’re not significantly faster.
 
MauleSkinner said:
And like I said earlier, if you need a physician to tell you you’re healthy, you may not have any business flying an airplane.
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This is why Basic Med comes with a biannaul requirement to sit through the IMSAFE lecture.
 
It always amuses me how so many complain about FAA overreach, and then when they back off, complain some more.

For the record, I do NOT predict 172's will start raining from the sky next month. The FAA got this one right.
 
Clip4 said:
I am sorry you have to spend thousands of dollars to get the SI. The guy walking into a flight school with the same untreated medical condition is going to be flying with us. Some think that’s cool, I don’t.
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The world isn’t as binary as you’re making it out to be. It’s not “you either have an SI, or it’s untreated.” The condition can be treated without an SI, and wasting time and money getting the SI can detract from the time and money spent treating the condition.
 
MauleSkinner said:
The world isn’t as binary as you’re making it out to be. It’s not “you either have an SI, or it’s untreated.” The condition can be treated without an SI, and wasting time and money getting the SI can detract from the time and money spent treating the condition.
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As I can attest to. After consulting with two Cardiologists, the Heart Surgeon and Dr Bruce, I decided to forgo even attempting an SI Fiasco. ALL Involved in my treatment 15 years ago agreed I was totally fit to fly and should live a much longer time. Dr Bruce said IF I wanted to spend $10000 or so the FAA MIGHT issue an SI. His opinion was that because I had only the necessary procedures, all was well except the FAA most certainly would have wanted additional unnecessary treatment. Since if his predictions were accurate and if no SI was issued, I would have been prohibited from flying any aircraft and said forget it.

SInce then I have been flying using Sport Pilot Privileges, and have yet to spiral out of the sky or crashed into a busload of nuns or experienced any other dire event that would have rated a horrifying headline. Such a headline might have provided the final evidence of the catastrophic consequences predicted by some on this thread and cause the FAA to regret their misguided effort to follow the existing data and increase access to other aircraft for the Sport Pilot Community.
 
X3 Skier said:
As I can attest to. After consulting with two Cardiologists, the Heart Surgeon and Dr Bruce, I decided to forgo even attempting an SI Fiasco. ALL Involved in my treatment 15 years ago agreed I was totally fit to fly and should live a much longer time. Dr Bruce said IF I wanted to spend $10000 or so the FAA MIGHT issue an SI. His opinion was that because I had only the necessary procedures, all was well except the FAA most certainly would have wanted additional unnecessary treatment. Since if his predictions were accurate and if no SI was issued, I would have been prohibited from flying any aircraft and said forget it.

SInce then I have been flying using Sport Pilot Privileges, and have yet to spiral out of the sky or crashed into a busload of nuns or experienced any other dire event that would have rated a horrifying headline. Such a headline might have provided the final evidence of the catastrophic consequences predicted by some on this thread and cause the FAA to regret their misguided effort to follow the existing data and increase access to other aircraft for the Sport Pilot Community.
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:yeahthat:

But according to Clip4, when you move from your LSA into a 172, the incredible performance increase, especially the amazing g's you'll experience, will cause you to have a massive heart attack and fall from the sky, killing all those nuns in the bus and setting fire to an orphanage. Oh, the humanity!

Doom! We're all doomed! Our only hope is for OKC to pass on anyone who dreams of flying a Cherokee.
 
Half Fast said:
:yeahthat:

But according to Clip4, when you move from your LSA into a 172, the incredible performance increase, especially the amazing g's you'll experience, will cause you to have a massive heart attack and fall from the sky, killing all those nuns in the bus and setting fire to an orphanage. Oh, the humanity!

Doom! We're all doomed! Our only hope is for OKC to pass on anyone who dreams of flying a Cherokee.
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Picture of me soloing a Bristell LSA last year:
Screenshot_20250905-113035.png

Picture of me flying a 1980 Archer last weekend with a CFI in anticipation of MOSAIC taking effect:
Screenshot_20250905-113052.png
 
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MauleSkinner said:
The world isn’t as binary as you’re making it out to be. It’s not “you either have an SI, or it’s untreated.” The condition can be treated without an SI, and wasting time and money getting the SI can detract from the time and money spent treating the condition.
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The comparison was for a pilot has/had medical certificate with a medical condition requiring an SI to a person without a medical certificate who isn’t required to get an SI.

The disagreement may be if either should need an SI and which medical conditions should require an SI, but for some medical conditions everyone should be required to get an SI.
 
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Well, the FAA's opinion is that nobody needs an SI - or a medical certificate at all - if they're willing to limit their flying to SP privileges. Experience has proven their opinion to be correct. So correct, in fact, that they've significantly expanded the parameters of what you're allowed to fly with SP privileges.

If you disagree with them, you can always get appointed administrator of the FAA, or there's always 14 CFR § 11.63. Kvetching here won't do much.
 
MauleSkinner said:
How do you propose doing that?

The pattern is full of 10-hour wonders trying to figure it out now, so 20 seems like an improvement.
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The past 20 years for MOSIAC could have been spent on improving the CFI pipeline. Develop better tools stream line the AIM and develop *some* some sort of feedback loop to get rid of garbage CFIs. But the FAA, instead, said the problem is that PPL is to many hours and to much knowledge. I guess this is the new FAA math, cut training by 50% and expect better pilots? Remove any sort of health screenings and expect safer pilots? wait, wut?

If a controller reports to a CFI or a CFI sees that a student isn't up to par for solo's the CFI can revoke his endorsement. Once they get the SP ticket it has to go through the FSDO. So there is an immediate feedback loop for students.
 
Dana said:
The medical aspect of the regulations hasn't changed with MOSAIC; only the type of airplanes a SP can fly has been expanded. If Cubs and other LSAs haven't been falling out of the sky for the past 20 years because their DL-medical pilots have a health issue, there's no more likelihood that 172s and Bonanzas will now. So please give it a rest.

Now, you're you're talking about a 20 hour SP jumping in a heavier and faster plane and killing himself, that's a more valid concern. All I can say is, "we'll see," and point out that almost nobody, SP or PP, gets their certificate in the minimum hours. There will be, for sure, a few new SPs with more money than brains buying a fast airplane and screwing it up, but that's nothing new. But for most, renters and insurance companies will keep it from happening by requiring transition training.
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The odds are that there simply aren't enough sport pilots now to make a statistical difference.

I agree that its a 'wait and see' but at what point is HALVING the minimum required training a good thing for any highly stressful 'hobby'?

I've seen enough PPLs do ungawdly stupid things to make me want to avoid any public airport..... now lower the training requirements and lets see what happens.

I'll ask again, what problem did MOSIAC solve? Fail out rates of student PPLs is on the CFI, not the amount of stuff to learn.
 
If you want things to change, whining about the regs isn’t the answer. Addressing CFI quality, in my opinion, is the bigger issue. If you have good, CFI is making sure that their students are properly ready for a check ride. Most of these concerns are non-issues.

Right now, the current pilot environment has meant that there are a lot of really low time, mediocre-at-best CFI’s all fighting for students and quality *is* going down.
 
pfarber said:
The odds are that there simply aren't enough sport pilots now to make a statistical difference.
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Perhaps not, but there are a lot of PP and higher rated pilots without medicals "exercising sport pilot privileges".
 
pfarber said:
The past 20 years for MOSIAC could have been spent on improving the CFI pipeline. Develop better tools stream line the AIM and develop *some* some sort of feedback loop to get rid of garbage CFIs. But the FAA, instead, said the problem is that PPL is to many hours and to much knowledge. I guess this is the new FAA math, cut training by 50% and expect better pilots? Remove any sort of health screenings and expect safer pilots? wait, wut?

If a controller reports to a CFI or a CFI sees that a student isn't up to par for solo's the CFI can revoke his endorsement. Once they get the SP ticket it has to go through the FSDO. So there is an immediate feedback loop for students.
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Ah..make instructors better by doing something. Yup, that’ll work. Obviously, in your opinion, the FAA understands the problem of safety and could design a program to do something to your satisfaction.
 
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Clip4 said:
The comparison was for a pilot has/had medical certificate with a medical condition requiring an SI to a person without a medical certificate who isn’t required to get an SI.

The disagreement may be if either should need an SI and which medical conditions should require an SI, but for some medical conditions everyone should be required to get an SI.
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So “untreated” had nothing to do with it, you just threw the word in to make yourself sound more photosynthesis?
 
Clip4 said:
but for some medical conditions everyone should be required to get an SI.
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What are they and why hasn’t the FAA done that for “everyone”.
 
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Baked Potato said:
Picture of me soloing a Bristell LSA last year:
View attachment 144797

Picture of me flying a 1980 Archer last weekend with a CFI in anticipation of MOSAIC taking effect:
View attachment 144798
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Did you guys decide that Archer is MOSAIC-eligible? I have the same model-Year Archer and I've been debating that with myself, as the clean stall is right around 59.3 KCAS: rounds to 59?
 
T Shugart said:
Did you guys decide that Archer is MOSAIC-eligible? I have the same model-Year Archer and I've been debating that with myself, as the clean stall is right around 59.3 KCAS: rounds to 59?
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Well... Nothing official. My CFI and I were just kind of assuming.
Are we expecting some kind of list from the FAA on which legacy models apply?
 
The thing is, GA is becoming increasingly unaffordable for most people ESPECIALLY as a hobby. Hence, I dont know if this will really make it take off that much. Especially if you are doing training in busy airspace, you realistically aren't going to get your SPL in significantly less hours than a PPL
 
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