When / where to contact the tower?

Dana

Dana

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Dana
If I wanted to depart from Katama (1B2) and then make a VFR transition through the MVY class D westbound along the shoreline at or below 1000' before turning NW toward Cuttyhunk and the mainland, where and when should I contact the MVY tower? The D starts only 1/2 mile from the airport so I'd likely be inside it before getting a response, Heading east first to contact them only to turn around and dive back down through the Katama traffic pattern seems inadvisable, and I don't want to head out to sea at low altitude either... nor do I want to switch from Katama CTAF to MVY tower while still in the pattern.

Can I contact them before taking off from Katama? Would they even hear me from the ground 5 miles away?

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I would call them from the ground, they will hear you.
 
I mean, to me the obvious answer is contact them before you enter the delta. how you do that is up to you.
 
Being that close, they should be able to hear you from the ground. That said, it seems like there’s a lot of easy ways to skin the cat, so I don’t see what the dilemma is here. :dunno:
 
Rgbeard said:
It sounds as if remedial instruction is due.
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I don’t think that’s a fair response. Obviously the OP knows he must contact, but this is a special situation.
 
Put the ATIS in stby. Take off, depart the pattern on a heading that won't take you directly to the class D, switch to ATIS and get current info, switch to the CLass D tower, and contact them with info, start your turn inbound.

It doesn't matter how far you are from the Class D, you still gotta go through the same steps. Even if you call on the phone, they'll tell you to contact them on the radio with the current ATIS prior to entering class D, unless you're claiming an exemption as a non-electrified aircraft.
 
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Not sure what the locals do, but for me this would be a good opportunity to make use of my second comm radio to call tower once I’m in the air. You might be able to reach MVY tower from the ground, but my experience in generally suggests that tower controllers don’t want to hear from you until you’re actually airborne.
 
Kritchlow said:
I don’t think that’s a fair response. Obviously the OP knows he must contact, but this is a special situation.
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How so? Seems pretty commonplace to me.

Takeoff, fly east over the Katama Bay shoreline or over toward Cape Poge Bay until you get two-way. The ‘over water flying’ needed to get to that area is so incredibly minimal and it wouldn’t even need to be at low altitude, but maybe I’m missing something…
 
Call the tower on climb-out from 1B2, when he answers with your tail number you're cleared you have permission to enter... ;)

Edit: poorly stated.
 
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Daleandee said:
Call the tower on climb-out from 1B2, when he answers with your tail number you're cleared ... ;)
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Technically you’re not cleared, but you meet the regulatory requirements to enter the airspace unless specifically told otherwise.
 
I'm fully aware I have to establish communications before entering the class D, the issue is what's the best way to do it?

The single radio in my plane is down low and hard to see with no way to set a standby frequency, so frequency changing takes some head down in the cockpit which I don't like to do in a busy traffic pattern, which I assume Katama is on a nice weekend. Listening to ATIS first, while certainly advisable and I would before takeoff, I don't think is technically required if I'm not landing?

If I take off on 21 or 24 which will probably be favored by the prevailing winds and make a right turnout westbound, I'll be inside the D in under 30 seconds. Sounds like the best thing is to try to contact them on the ground, if it works, great, and if they still want me to call when airborne as I would think they would, at least I've made the required initial contact to enter the airspace. If not, switch to tower immediately after lifting off, a right turnout will be outside the left traffic pattern (assuming 21 or 24) so leaving CTAF isn't as bad.

Add in the fact that it's a slow noisy open cockpit plane with no transponder, usually needing a couple of "say again your location?" exchanges.
 
Dana said:
I'm fully aware I have to establish communications before entering the class D, the issue is what's the best way to do it?

The single radio in my plane is down low and hard to see with no way to set a standby frequency, so frequency changing takes some head down in the cockpit which I don't like to do in a busy traffic pattern, which I assume Katama is on a nice weekend. Listening to ATIS first, while certainly advisable and I would before takeoff, I don't think is technically required if I'm not landing?

If I take off on 21 or 24 which will probably be favored by the prevailing winds and make a right turnout westbound, I'll be inside the D in under 30 seconds. Sounds like the best thing is to try to contact them on the ground, if it works, great, and if they still want me to call when airborne as I would think they would, at least I've made the required initial contact to enter the airspace. If not, switch to tower immediately after lifting off, a right turnout will be outside the left traffic pattern (assuming 21 or 24) so leaving CTAF isn't as bad.

Add in the fact that it's a slow noisy open cockpit plane with no transponder, usually needing a couple of "say again your location?" exchanges.
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MVY is 122.95 and 1B2 is 122.8. that's a whole 3 clicks to the left to change freq's. MVY has an atis phone #, call them on the ground before u depart (I typically do this anyways, even at my home field). not sure why you'd do a right turnout, the traffic pattern is left at 1B2. take off rwy 24 or 21, climb, turn left xwind, turn left downwind, cross midfield and switch freq's (aka 3 clicks to the left). I don't think it gets any easier than that. that's one, simple option, I'm sure there are dozens more. I'm really not seeing what's difficult about this, I must be missing something.
 
also MVY tower has a phone # published. call them. ah sorry, 1st reply stated this already.
 
I still say I would call them and ask what their preferred procedure is. The airports are so close together, I'll bet they have run into this issue before. Much easier to talk on a cell phone than in an open cockpit airplane.
 
RyanB said:
How so? Seems pretty commonplace to me.
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The airport Ryan and I fly out of is under the class C shelf, we do this all the time. Depart, fly a heading and/or altitude that keeps you out of the Charlie, once sufficiently away from the pattern, call approach and make your request. It ain't no thing.

I see this instance as being no different.
 
Dana, I would just skirt the Delta until you are ready to call. No big deal, worry about traffic and flying until you are ready, then make the call. The MVY controllers are pretty laid back and there is plenty of room to fly along the coast there until you are sorted. No transponder might mean a few more calls, but once you are talking to them you can be in their airspace unless they say remain clear. I would call up and say "Bugsmasher xxx, just departed 21 Katama, flying southbound along the shore, negative atis, land." Obviously if you can hear the atis on the ground, get it, makes less work in the air.

If they tell you to remain clear, I would just forget about them, and hug the delta perimeter until you are at 2700 feet, then fly over the airport if you want.
 
Dana said:
I'm fully aware I have to establish communications before entering the class D, the issue is what's the best way to do it?

The single radio in my plane is down low and hard to see with no way to set a standby frequency, so frequency changing takes some head down in the cockpit which I don't like to do in a busy traffic pattern, which I assume Katama is on a nice weekend. Listening to ATIS first, while certainly advisable and I would before takeoff, I don't think is technically required if I'm not landing?

If I take off on 21 or 24 which will probably be favored by the prevailing winds and make a right turnout westbound, I'll be inside the D in under 30 seconds. Sounds like the best thing is to try to contact them on the ground, if it works, great, and if they still want me to call when airborne as I would think they would, at least I've made the required initial contact to enter the airspace. If not, switch to tower immediately after lifting off, a right turnout will be outside the left traffic pattern (assuming 21 or 24) so leaving CTAF isn't as bad.

Add in the fact that it's a slow noisy open cockpit plane with no transponder, usually needing a couple of "say again your location?" exchanges.
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Honestly, this reads like a whole lot of excuses as to why it's OK for you to enter the Delta airspace without actually complying with the rules. Unless you're explicitly told it's OK by the controller, calling them before you're airborne almost certainly doesn't constitute the required "contact" to enter the Delta, even though you're trying to convince yourself it does. If your airplane is that difficult to fly/manage in a busy situation, perhaps it's time to consider some sort of change that resolves that issue.
 
There’s literally between 270 and 300 degrees of choices of direction to fly that doesn’t bust you into the neighboring airspace.

get in the air, head either North, East or South, and call up when able.

better yet, get up to 2,700 feet or more and do what you want?
 
Dana said:
If I wanted to depart from Katama (1B2) and then make a VFR transition through the MVY class D westbound along the shoreline at or below 1000' before turning NW toward Cuttyhunk and the mainland, where and when should I contact the MVY tower? The D starts only 1/2 mile from the airport so I'd likely be inside it before getting a response, Heading east first to contact them only to turn around and dive back down through the Katama traffic pattern seems inadvisable, and I don't want to head out to sea at low altitude either... nor do I want to switch from Katama CTAF to MVY tower while still in the pattern.

Can I contact them before taking off from Katama? Would they even hear me from the ground 5 miles away?

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They gots a website with a phone number. Call em and ask how they does things there.. http://katamaairfield.com/
 
I have a little airplane with no avionics at all (no transponder). It has a small battery to run a fuel pump, only because its a low-wing. I use a handheld radio clipped to the canopy rail in front of me. I go in and out of class D all the time, with 2 way coms established, no problems. Its not hard. I use a Bose A20 headset because of the "noisy cockpit" problems. It was definitely worth the exspense.
 
Katama runways are in all different directions. You should be able to find one that lets you stay clear long enough to call them on the radio.

Personally, whether I think they want to hear from me or not, I would call them when holding short. "Vinyard tower, N1234, at Katama airport ready for takeoff, vfr west along the shore, information A."
 
Dana said:
Sounds like the best thing is to try to contact them on the ground, if it works, great, and if they still want me to call when airborne as I would think they would, at least I've made the required initial contact to enter the airspace.
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I can reach our Class C while on the ground and behind our mountain (airports are 15 NM miles apart).

I'd use the phone as it might make things easier. Most Class D's I've been at other than Stinson in San Antonio and Fullerton in Ca were horrible, often rude and couldn't handle more than one aircraft in their airspace at a time ...
 
I can’t reach the Class D 7 miles from me from the ground. And it’s Florida. There’s nothing but swamp and oak trees between us.
 
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AFD does not list the Class D in the frequencies section. Just to add some info...
 
bradg33 said:
Honestly, this reads like a whole lot of excuses as to why it's OK for you to enter the Delta airspace without actually complying with the rules.
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Where on earth did you get the idea that I think "it's OK to enter the delta airspace without actually complying with the rules?"

bradg33 said:
Unless you're explicitly told it's OK by the controller, calling them before you're airborne almost certainly doesn't constitute the required "contact" to enter the Delta, even though you're trying to convince yourself it does.
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I'm not trying to "convince" myself of anything. I know what the rules are (though I'm not aware of anything in the regs that says the required initial contact must be made in the air, do you?); I'm just interested in determining the most expedient way of handling a situation I'm not often in.

eman1200 said:
not sure why you'd do a right turnout, the traffic pattern is left at 1B2
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Because a right turn is the direction I want to go, and it gets me clear of the pattern right away instead of going in the opposite direction and then coming right back through or above the pattern while on a different frequency from all the traffic in the pattern. I just want to fly low along the beach, below the MVY traffic, with minimal maneuvering, and give my passenger a nice view.

bflynn said:
Personally, whether I think they want to hear from me or not, I would call them when holding short. "Vinyard tower, N1234, at Katama airport ready for takeoff, vfr west along the shore, information A."
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And that seems like the most reasonable way to handle it. The worst they can do is say, "call us in the air."
 
Dana said:
...Because a right turn is the direction I want to go, and it gets me clear of the pattern right away instead of going in the opposite direction and then coming right back through or above the pattern while on a different frequency from all the traffic in the pattern. I just want to fly low along the beach, below the MVY traffic, with minimal maneuvering, and give my passenger a nice view....
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welp, sounds like you got it all under control then, my bad.
 
Take off, call the tower, once they repeat your tail number communications has been established and you may enter the Delta. You don’t need a clearance.
 
Why not just fly around the Delta? Its not much of a detour unless you are in something super slow.
 
Wagondriver said:
Why not just fly around the Delta? Its not much of a detour unless you are in something super slow.
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My plane is slow, but that's irrelevant, If I was just trying to save time I could head north and pass east of the delta, maybe ask for a VFR transition through the middle of the delta to the northwest. This is specifically about wanting to do a low altitude scenic cruise along the south shore, not a mile and a half offshore in an airplane that glides like a brick. Nothing I haven't done before, elsewhere... when I had plenty of time to establish communications several miles in advance.

Geez, I try to discuss options to best coordinate that flight with ATC and I get accused of "needing remedial training", "having an agenda", and "not wanting to comply with the rules."
 
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