When selling your aircraft

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Justin M, May 14, 2019.

  1. Justin M

    Justin M Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi.

    When ever I look at a for-sale posting of an aircraft, I have two questions that are rarely answered in the ad.

    What is the useful load with full fuel?
    What is the usual cruise airspeed and fuel burn at that airspeed?

    These seem like two fundamental questions that differ by aircraft, but are rarely included in classified ads.

    Do you think there is an obvious reason these two pieces of information are rarely included in a posting?

    Just wondering.
     
  2. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Posting those two pieces of information ,would take up to much space in most ads. If your interested you will usually call the owner/broker.
     
  3. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    Useful load is useful. But fuel capacity and cruise speed should already be known unless you are a complete newbie to the type. No need to include those in the ad.
     
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  4. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    More accurately, I’d rather want to know the empty weight, zero fuel weight, and fuel capacity.
    Not sure I’d trust any performance data advertised.
    I think the reason you don’t see this information listed is that it only appeals to tire kickers. Most buyers familiar with the type have a general idea of performance and payload.
     
  5. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    Who pays for ads by the word anymore?
     
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  6. david.h

    david.h Pre-Flight

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    You should be able to get close enough by the book numbers and photos/descriptions to know if you want to invest your time in a phone call for the actual numbers. 30 lbs or 2 gph either way is usually not a deal breaker for most buyers.
     
  7. mondtster

    mondtster Pattern Altitude

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    The reason you are unlikely to get answers to your questions is because the seller doesn't know the answer. That has been my experience when buying light airplanes anyway.
     
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  8. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

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    I am typically looking at fabric planes I commonly ask

    When was the fabric last done?
    When was the last overhaul done?
    Do you have scanned logs you can send?

    If it is a smaller plane I ask useful load as on the LSAs in particular it matters and it varies a lot.
     
  9. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man Pattern Altitude

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    I agree there are a lot of ads that could use some work. People shy away from posting performance data because there are too many variables and someone will come behind you offering 5 more kts on 1 gph less. I agree weights are important but they don't need to spell it out just make sure you give enough information to be able to calculate it.
     
  10. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    If you are interested in a new airplane, the manufacturer will give you all that information. They a marketing new airplanes competing against other manufacturers, https://cessna.txtav.com/en/piston/cessna-skylane

    The seller of a used airplane is selling a used airplane. He knows anyone who doesn’t know the TAS or approximate useful load of the make and model isn’t a serious buyer.
     
  11. Bell206

    Bell206 Cleared for Takeoff

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    If you use print media its by line, usually 3-5 lines depending on pub like TAP. Print world still relevant in aviation if want to reach all parts of market. Have sold more items through TAP hardcopy version than rest combined.
     
  12. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    In interesting reflection on the gentrification of general aviation.
     
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  13. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    And when a few pounds of useful load can make a difference, neither of the above is good enough.

    The OP asked about useful load with full fuel...I’ve flown types/models where full fuel and a pilot put you over max weight in one particular airplane but not the next.
     
  14. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    I agree on useful load and cruise speed, but I'll disagree with you on fuel capacity. A number of aircraft types have multiple fuel tank options. For example on the 414 you could have 163, 183, or 203 gallon fuel (technically there were also 140 and 100 gallon options but as far as I know those were never actually produced from the factory).

    When I was searching for a 414, 203 gallon fuel was mandatory.
     
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  15. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Years ago when I was trying to sell a plane for a family of a pilot that passed away, the question most asked by callers was, "What's the lowest price you will take for it.??''
     
  16. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Every time
    I was asked this, I added 5K
     
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  17. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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    what ever happened to good ol' "payload." That's what I remember calling it and that's what I remember hearing and reading. Then I comeback to flying after many years off and it seems the word has disappeared. A lot of people just say "useful load" when they mean payload. Some at least say "full fuel useful load." I miss payload
     
  18. MIFlyer

    MIFlyer Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    while far less experienced, I'll say that useful load is one of my prime criteria. You'll often see variations of a couple of hundred pounds between similar planes. I agree that speed/fuel usage isn't necessarily that important to an individual airframe unless they've done a lot of mods
     
  19. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

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    Well, my definition of "payload" is the remainder after the crew and full fuel are aboard. Is that your definition? I've seen "full fuel payload" be both with and without crew in a national publication.
     
  20. jaymark6655

    jaymark6655 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I like ads that tell useful load. Most recent ads I have seen, some of the aircraft are up to 100 lbs heavier than that model normally is. To me being familiar with the aircraft isn't enough since so many things could impact this number. Usually I assume standard tanks unless specifically listed. I guess people that don't list those don't care if you pass up their ad for one with a bit more useful info.

    Edit: This reminds me something else that I find annoying, list only airport code in an ad on here. Someone once said, "well if you don't know where KIFX is you're too far away to respond to the add." That maybe true, but on the other side I could only tell you 3 of the airport identifiers within a 2 hour drive of my location when there probably are close to 100 (maybe a slight exageration, I gave up counting). Does it really cost that much to type in a city and state vs making everyone else look it up.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019