When (if) to go for Instrument rating

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by jbrinker, Oct 24, 2018.

  1. jbrinker

    jbrinker Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Location:
    Auburn, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jbrinker
    I still consider myself a very fresh PPL. ~150hrs TT, ~1yr since my ticket got punched. I'm now a member of a semi-local flying club (40-60mins from home/work) and try to fly there a couple times a month minimum. They have a fleet of 172's and 152's and a mooney, and enough instructors to make good progress.

    I've been toying with the idea of starting my IFR rating. I haven't talked to the club yet, but I do know they typically want you to fly at least 2x a week if possible to make progress. I think I could commit to that, or close to it, at least until next summer.

    Money is not the issue, as I have funds saved up for aviation related training.

    My goals are two fold:
    - Become a better, more precise pilot.
    - Be able to "go places" more easily (and ideally get home if weather is an issue for VFR).

    My issues:
    - When I started PPL, I bought a few books, read the FAA material, and was pretty well aware of what I was getting into and how things would progress. I have tried to do the same for IFR, and I just have not yet found an "IFR 101" book/article/pamphlet that lays out the basics and gives a good overview. So suggestions are welcome.
    - Confidence. I need to build my confidence in weather, flying in and around weather, and less than "pretty good" conditions. Right now I am not comfortable in anything less than 10mi vis, and less than 15kt winds (less than 10kt xwind). I've been taking some instructors up with me to do more xwind, and less-perfect condition training.

    I guess I have a few questions and would like the POA feedback on them.

    - How hard is IFR rating compared to the PPL? I know its quite different but any real life comparisons of the actual training?
    - This club is a 141 school (although the do sometimes do part 61 too)
    - Should I wait a while, and build up more XC solo time? Only about 20hrs now.
    - Is getting this rating "mostly just to become a better pilot" really worth it? I enjoy the challenge of learning, and thrived on that when getting my PPL. I think the goal of this rating would keep me driven and I would be the better for it.

    For reference I'm gonna be 50 this year, and have zero plans for a career in aviation. I do have a biplane being restored and will work in getting my TW endorsement in this next few months too. Oh, and plan on going to Budd Davisson's Pitts school in the spring.
     
  2. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    4,536
    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad Z
    An instrument rating will make you a more complete pilot, even if you never once file ifr after getting the rating (although that would be a total waste).

    If you fly long distances on a regular basis, as a VFR pilot you will inevitably: 1) bounce around under broken cloud layers, 2) scrub flights that would otherwise require a few minutes of IMC, or 3) bust clouds, or at least cloud clearance requirements. Flying ifr isn't always about shooting an ILS to 200 feet in crap visibility. For me, the ability to file and fly ifr is one of my most useful tools in keeping my passengers comfortable.
     
  3. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    1,925
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim
    I felt the same way you do when I started: there are no good "do it like this" type books (at least I didn't find any). There's just a lot of info, and you have to know it, so just dive in. As far as flying in "comfortable weather", again my advice: just dive in....you can always start with marginal-but-expecting improving VFR weather.

    As far as how hard? I found the flying VERY HARD because it was so easy...no joke. I was bored to death. I suppose the fact that I have close to 700 hours, with 200+ at night (and usually flying on instruments at night even though I didn't have to) might have had something to do with it. I think most people enjoy the flying though.
    But, the book work/studying on the other hand was definitely a challenge for me, at least much more so than for PPL. There is a lot to learn, for sure. I found "getting" the concepts more difficult too.
    Now that I've had the rating a few months, I do enjoy the ability to fly on days that would have kept me grounded before...my girlfriend has very limited time/time off, and we can plan travel weekends much much easier now, because I know in most cases the time I'd shift our return home departure time can usually be measured in hours now instead of days when I was VFR only.
     
  4. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    15,569
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Now offering reverse discounts.
    Regarding the building the XC time... you will do some XC work to meet the FAR requirements. More XC to even more airports is also a good experience task.

    At 20 XC hours now, getting to the 50 required by the checkride is totally easy to do. Just start finding "hamburger" runs that are a bit further away than you had been going to. Also, look for Pilots n Paws missions in your region.

    I built my initial 50 hours XC through PnP flights and frequent visits to a friend who's airport was conveniently 52 NM straight line from my home airport.
     
  5. ja_user

    ja_user Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,541
    Location:
    Kixd
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Sam
    Regarding XC time. I generally like my students to have 30hrs, you can get some during training. You don't need to meet the requirements until the day of the checkride.

    I find the IFR rating very useful and enjoyable. However, it is a lot of work and different than when you are getting your PPL.

    Don't forget the 40hrs hood/simulator/actual time isn't 40hrs hobbs time. For budget purposes figure you will probably have .1-.2 on each flight, perhaps more if you train at a busy airport, that will be ground, etc that you won't have the hood on. I always tell students to figure 45hrs plane time for 40 hours hood, seems to be pretty close. Obviously the longer the lessons the less this is a factor.
     
  6. jbrinker

    jbrinker Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Location:
    Auburn, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jbrinker
    The airport where my biplane is being worked on this winter is ~65 miles. Perfect. I can make a few XCs down there to check on things/do work on it.
     
  7. Tantalum

    Tantalum Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    2,421
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    This was my mission exactly, I wanted to feel like a "real" pilot being able to be in the clouds and be more disciplined about procedures, etc. As a VFR only PPL I never really felt that confident as a pilot.. sure I could get it off the ground, go somewhere else, and land safely.. but I felt like there was all this knowledge out there I was missing out on. Like buying a base model bare bones car. Sure, that base level Toyota Echo will get you from A to B.. but you're missing out on so much

    I feel like 5X the pilot now than I was before with my IR.. in my case it not only opened some doors as far as actually planning trips and using the plane as a tool, but made me feel like a much more "smart" pilot with regards to the aviation world..

    I would 100% recommend it, but to your points below (which I will get to shortly) it is in your utmost best interest to find a good school and power through it.. AND, after you have it, use the rating often.. IE, plan trips, file when you do, and keep in practice. The bare minimum 6 approaches + hold every 6 months does not (at least in my book) make you a proficient IR pilot

    **it was much more challenging to me. Where most things in PPL tend to come naturally, or at least you have the ability to develop some innate sense of things.. that is less true in the IR world. Things happen quick when you are getting sequenced in for an ILS and it is easy to let the plane get ahead of you. If you are training in a Cherokee or Skyhawk with no AP and you are in actual then you have to be on your game and ready for when ATC says "descend to 3,800 and turn right heading 240, maintain 3,800 until established, cleared for the approach, contact approach on 132.2" .. now you are starting a descent, turning a plane, double checking your radios, etc. all in actual. It can get busy and it can become easy to bust an altitude or heading assignment. AP is a big help, but I think people should be able to do this stuff without an AP

    So I guess, it's not really "hard" per se, but can get fast, overwhelming, and at times tedious. Also, for some reason, holds tend to jam people up.. tear drop vs parallel, vs direct. None of the little tricks really helped me, I kind of just had to memorize the visuals in my head

    The other frustrating thing to me was, to your point, a lack of any good, one, concise resource for IR flying.. I have yet to find a "Bible" of sorts for this stuff. Want to know the difference in an LPV, LNAV, LNAV +V, etc., approach? Good luck finding one summary table that lists out all the various approach types and what they mean

    You will need generally about 40 hrs of XC time and close to that in simulated instrument time. Before starting an IR course I would find a pilot buddy or friend and do a bunch of weekly XC flights flying under the foggles to build that simulated instrument time. You want your training to be very focused on the REAL IR stuff.. not just going in a straight line with your instructor under the foggles for 2 hrs talking about sports and cars while you pay him $80/hr

    Depends how you define "better pilot" - some people will tell you to get a sea plane rating, others tail wheel, sail plane, etc., so the term "better pilot" may be ambiguous. I do believe however that an IR rating is a requisite to really be a "real" pilot.. so to speak.. and if you enjoy a good challenge and learning and studying then this sounds like it would be right for you

    Good luck!
     
    PaulD and Brad Smith like this.
  8. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    12,654
    Location:
    mass fla
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ron keating
    Getting the IR usually makes you a more confident pilot the rating doesn’t force you to fly ,what your not comfortable with,it just gives you more options.
     
  9. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    23,226
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    FAA Instrument Flying Handbook and Instrument Procedures Handbook are good, and free download or you can purchase the books anywhere. Also the AIM is excellent for instrument training as a lot of ATC and instrument equipment is described in it. Other books/ courses out there, we use Gleim here supplemented by the FAA books.

    https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/media/FAA-H-8083-15B.pdf


    https://www.faa.gov/regulations_pol..._procedures_handbook/media/FAA-H-8083-16B.pdf
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
    Skyrys62 likes this.
  10. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    3,434
    Location:
    KFAR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    WannaFly
    get some actual time with a CFI, you will see its not always flying thru crap, there are a lot of negotiations that goes on.. you change, altitude, go around cells and sometimes just punch thru some nasty stuff and change your diapers on the ground ... still in training and with my schedule probably another 6-8 months before i actually get the rating. the training books and videos (sporty's) is boring ...its literally like watching paint dry.

    but boy it opens doors for ya. for example, few weeks back i did a trip with 2 pax from KFAR to KDLH, last 40 mins i had to duck under a BKN layer and as you can imagine its not comfortable at all. now if i had my cert, i would have flown in silky smooth air above it, then fly through may be 30 seconds of cloud or not even that and landed.
     
  11. CC268

    CC268 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,090
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    I actually really enjoyed the Instrument rating. It was my favorite rating so far. It's very rewarding. I got to shoot two approaches to minimums with Walboy a few weekends ago and it was a fricken blast. I have my commercial checkride soon and while its been fun, I had more fun with the Instrument rating.
     
  12. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    5,437
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    All of the above. You have the time and means to do it and it doesn't sound like you will have to sacrifice anything else to do it. So do it. If after you get started you decide it's not what you want, then quit doing it.
     
    Bill Watson and Skyrys62 like this.
  13. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    15,569
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Now offering reverse discounts.
    This rodent from Aggieland agrees.
     
    mscard88 likes this.
  14. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,953
    Location:
    Owensboro, KY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skyrys62
    Agree, and was going to mention the same thing.
    If you just want some casual reading/learning for now, this ^^ is a perfect introduction. I keep a tablet handy to take to the kitchen, bed, bathroom lol, etc., but I printed out the PPL ones.

    Also as mentioned by @tawood there's a lot to learn, so repeated exposure will help, and reading through these publications will offer some of that.
    There are decent youtube videos about how to read approach plates, SID's/STARS, en route charts, etc., which helps explain the concepts and gives a little preparedness before starting a school too.

    Many on this board have recommended in the past, to get the written out of the way first. I plan to do so, and go at a pace I can handle with work/life, then hammer out the plane hours with an instructor at a quicker pace.
    I'm hoping I'll find myself like @CC268 and like this rating better than the PPL. It almost feels like I will so far. Well, at least until it gets like @WannFly says, and I need to change my underwear after the lessons.

    Good luck!
     
    WannFly likes this.
  15. CC268

    CC268 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,090
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    I’ve always done the written ahead of time. To me it’s a no brainer but there are many on here who think otherwise. It’s worked very wel for me.
     
  16. ja_user

    ja_user Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,541
    Location:
    Kixd
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Sam
    If you want to just knock the written out, use Sheppard Air.
     
    George Mohr, paflyer and WannFly like this.
  17. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    828
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    benyflyguy
    I think it will make you more well rounded. I did written first with king. Then started flying. I started in late spring and would have wrapped it up a month ago sans an injury. Had opportunity to do a fair amount of dual imc lessons which was a big bonus.
     
  18. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    743
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    I did my training immediately after getting my private. And then I never took the flight test. Now I have to learn it all over, but the gauges are now square! 150 hours and a fresh private ticket is perfect; go for it.
     
    benyflyguy likes this.
  19. bobmrg

    bobmrg En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,792
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bob Gardner
     
  20. Cici

    Cici Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Messages:
    47
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cici
    I took a couple months "off" after getting my PPL this spring. I hopped in with about 60 TTL hrs and started my IR training this Sept (part 61). A little over "half" the hours right now, hoping to wrap up before Christmas.

    I find the flying to be relatively easy. There's a few hours of finding what works for you in terms of the scan. Then a few hours figuring out how much correction to make. And then learning to hand fly, keep your scan going and manage everything else in the cockpit. Other than that, it's just practice. The rules can be very confusing. I did the Sporty's videos ($160!) and then got Sheppard Air ($45) for the test prep. I would recommend doing the "ground portion," starting some training and then knocking out the written early on. I've spent very little time before lessons going over how to brief the plate, what to look for on the plate, procedures, etc.
     
  21. Mr.T

    Mr.T Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    SE Kansas City Metro
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Marty
    The best thing you could do now is to build cross country time. And not a 50.1 mile jaunt and back -- go somewhere you've never been. And then go somewhere else. And keep on doing it. That by itself will make you a better pilot, build your confidence, and - once you have a few flights cancelled because of iffy weather, help you understand why an instrument rating can be a good thing.

    If that kind of flying doesn't interest you, there's little reason to pursue an instrument rating. But if you're the type who got his PPL so you can actually go places, an instrument rating will make you a much better pilot and - if you stay current - more options when you get to the other end and need to come home tomorrow or next week.

    The biggest challenge with an instrument rating is maintaining currency and proficiency (and those are *not* the same thing). You'll need to be committed to flying regularly after you complete your rating in order to keep up those skills. It's a lot of work but definitely doable.
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  22. wayne

    wayne Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    983
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    wayne
    If you want to travel I highly recommend getting your IR. I know people that have hundreds of hours with no IR, but I find it immensely valuable. I travel privately on schedule about as well as I do when flying commercial. Now, I avoid too many plans in the winter that are out very far as I've never flown a FIKI capable plane and rarely have flown one with inadvertent deice.

    I found the written material on IFR to be a hodge-podge collection of what seemed like semi-related stuff. I found the flying easy. So much so that my CFII thought I was just a few hours from the time needed for the flight exam when I was only coming up on halfway thru. I'm no Bob Hoover, but I can certainly play video games. :D Even if the video game is a six-pack and a 430. ;)

    To get your XC time make it a point to get it in. Whether that's taking a trip, $100 hamburger run or approach practice for your IR. I made a point of doing approaches somewhere I could get a landing in that was over 50 nm from the home airport. Bam! All of that approach practice counted towards XC. Not only did that get in "XC time", but it also gave me more variety in the approaches. We did day and weekend trips. I met up with other pilots on $100 hamburger runs. Going out to see the fall leaves? Make sure you get a landing in over 50 nm from home.

    ^ This

    I have had plenty of flights where I needed the IR to depart, but the destination was VFR. And then lots where the ceiling was 800-1500' high.

    Above the clouds is generally much smoother than below the clouds. Makes for a much nicer flight.
     
    tawood likes this.
  23. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    5,535
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
    Get the written behind you with Gold Method or Sheppard.

    Machado's book on instrument flying is a good read.

    Then go fly it! You'll be glad you did.
     
  24. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2017
    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ and Ensenada, Mexico
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    rgbeard
    I haven't got anything really to add that hasn't been already said.

    So, I'll just tell my story, and see if this adds value.

    I'm about your same age. I got my PPL at the age of 25, and have used my privilege for fun, vacations, and select business trips for the last 25 years. My dad raised me flying, and held an instrument rating. I flew a lot with him, and understood the concepts of instrument flight.

    Shortly after getting my PPL, I moved to sunny Arizona. That put the IR on the back-burner, due to the "severe clear" that dominates the Southwest.

    A few years later, we moved to SoCal, and I REALLY wished I had my instrument rating. The coastal conditions cause you to need the ticket just to punch the marine layer, and get on your way. Many, many trips and plans were canceled, because I couldn't reliably go anywhere. Catalina Island is a fun SoCal destination, as well, but it was gut-wrenching drama for me, as I spent all my time on-island, looking up at the clouds worrying about making it home.

    But, we lived in one of the nation's highest cost-of-living areas, and as such, we didn't have that kind money to spend. So I couldn't get the time/money together for the rating.

    In 2014, we moved back to Arizona, and as I saw our finances recover, one day I said to my wife, "Honey, I want to work on my Instrument." She applauded the news, and away I went. I got my ticket in March of 2017, barely clinging on to age 49.

    • As an instrument pilot, I feel like much more a part of "the machine". I've got the guidance of ATC to keep me out of trouble.
    • TFRs enroute? No problem. I follow ATC instructions, and do whatever they say.
    • Class B airspace? No problem. On an IFR flight plan, you never even hear the mention of "Class Bravo", "Charlie" or any of their friends.
    • Coastal destinations? No problem. Look for an airport with a good approach, have an alternate, and plan to arrive.

    It's the best money I've spent, aside from getting my PPL in the first place.
     
    Pugs likes this.
  25. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    20,612
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    I felt like the instrument rating was much harder than the private. I have a friend who's the complete opposite - He is not so good with the hand-eye coordination part of things, but the very procedural nature of the IR fit his brain very well. And while it was hard for me, it's also been a very rewarding rating to have.

    No need to build up more XC time before you start, but like Mr. T said, getting far, far away from your home field would be both an excellent learning experience as well as a motivator. IMO, those really long cross country flights (500+nm from home) are the best learning experiences you'll have without a CFI on board.

    It will make you a better pilot... And so will that tailwheel endorsement. If you end up in a VFR-only biplane, you likely won't use the instrument rating much, and it's definitely a skill that must be exercised. Having been doing it for a dozen years now, I don't have to exercise it as much as I used to, but it's not a rating you want to get and then not use.

    If you plan to use GA for travel, it's a must, and there's no reason to wait to do it. If you're going to get a Stearman or Waco and poke just holes in the sky on beautiful days, there are better things you can do.

    As far as what you're getting into and how things progress, here's a rough outline of what you need to learn:

    1) Basic attitude instrument flying. Your sense of balance has worked for you since you were a year old or less, and now you have to learn to ignore it. That's incredibly difficult at first. You'll need to somewhat re-learn to fly the plane, by doing it on instruments and learning how to scan and cross-check those instruments. You'll also get more accustomed to knowing power settings and configurations for various parts of flight and how your plane will perform, because you'll be too busy to be constantly adjusting power to maintain the correct speed and altitude. You'll need to master set it and forget it (after a bit of trim) flying. You'll do maneuvers and unusual attitudes as well.

    2) (ground) Instrument flight planning and filing, weather, and general knowledge like IFR-related FARs. You'll learn how ATC works, how the national airspace system works, IFR minimum altitudes, communications (including required reports), convective and icing weather, IFR minimum equipment, operations in a non-radar environment, and lots of other stuff.

    3) Instrument procedures - Approaches and holds. You'll spend a LOT of time on these. You'll learn the various types of approaches (ILS, LOC, VOR, RNAV/GPS, etc as well as visual, contact, and radar approaches) and how to set them up and fly them in your plane, missed approach procedures, and how to read plates. For holds, you'll learn how to fly a basic one, how to adjust your outbound leg to give the correct inbound leg, the various types of hold entries, and size of protected airspace.

    4) Partial panel. How to recognize and compensate for instrument failures and get back on the ground safely.
     
  26. chemgeek

    chemgeek Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    496
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    chemgeek
    An instrument rating will (1) make you a more proficient pilot, and (2) take all the stress out of flying in MVFR conditions. If you want to travel in a plane, it makes it non dependent on perfectly VFR conditions. If you train in some actual, you will get a lot of WX experience too.

    While some VFR XC time building is valuable, there is no reason not to start IFR training as soon as you are comfortable. The IR is probably among the most challenging ratings to earn, but well worth it. By the time you finish your 40 hours of flight time, you will be overprepared.

    Maintaining currency is a pain, but just do an IPC as needed. Worked well for me for 30 years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  27. lancie00

    lancie00 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    312
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    lancie00
    If you have the time and money, DO IT!!! No reason not to. I'm half way through training now and it seems easy to me. I'm lucky that I'm just one of those guys where it "clicks" and makes sense. I used Sporty's and cranked out the written in a couple weeks but everyone has their preference. Good luck!!!
     
  28. Stephen Shore

    Stephen Shore Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    Longview, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    sshore
    I recommend the Gold Method to prepare for your written. Get that out of the way. You will find that IFR training is fun - but make sure you train 2-3 times per week if you can.

    I used a CFI for all practice - no "safety" pilot. I learned something every time. Also - make sure that you get a CFI that will give you plenty of real IMC time. Foggles and hoods are not the same as real IMC flying.

    I also learned in an airplane with no auto pilot, but if you have an AP that sure does make it easier.

    And yes, the training will make you a better pilot.
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  29. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,772
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Rushie
  30. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,280
    Location:
    Olympia, Washington
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ghery Pettit
    Amen to both. I'm not current as maintaining currency is tough. And when I've been "current" I still wouldn't rate myself as "proficient". However, for what I got the rating for in the first place, it worked well. Now to get proficient and current again...

    Really? I've got a copy of that book that I picked up over a decade ago at Sun n Fun. His way of dealing with holding pattern entries is worth the purchase all by itself. No, I won't give it away, go buy a copy. I do recommend the book.
     
  31. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    5,876
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kritchlow
    Instrument training is hard, but not like it once was. I doubt you will be asked to do a dual NDB hold.

    That said, you should absolutely do it. Even if you never use it you will understand the system in a different light.
    If you do use it, eventually that different light will expand 10 fold if you start doing complex arrivals and such.
     
  32. jbrinker

    jbrinker Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Location:
    Auburn, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jbrinker
    Thanks for all the replies everyone. I talked to our head instructor, and he mirrored much of the advice here. Specifically that if I didnt have time (2-3 lessons per week) that it would be good to wait until I do. Also that winter around here is not the best time for IFR training (icing conditions are quite common). I have decided I will start with the knowledge and written and try to knock that out before spring, and work in some flight training as I can as well to introduce some of the concepts, and do some longer VFR XC's this winter on good days. Once spring gets here I should be ready to go all-in on the training.

    I bought Rod Marchado's IFR book (a while ago actually) and have started reading it. I used his book for PPL as well and thought it was very well organized and presented a great overview and dug into many areas well. I have heard Sheppard Air is widely recommended for test prep, and will try them this time. I used Dauntless for PPL and although it helped I did not feel it was the best. Everyone seems to like Sheppard.

    Oh, and although I will have a biplane, I intend to remain a member of this club for the 172 access.
     
  33. BrianNC

    BrianNC Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,790
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    BrianATL
    I would definitely do an accelerated course. 7-14 days.
     
  34. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    20,612
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    I would guess your weather isn't too dissimilar from ours here in Wisconsin. I wouldn't bother waiting to start - The coldest parts of the winter will actually have LESS icing than early spring or late fall (since the moisture is already frozen solid) and in spring and summer you have a lot of thunderstorms to deal with instead. Not to mention, starting your flying in the smooth winter air will make it much easier than it would be in spring turbulence. Finally, you can hopefully learn how to make your go/no-go decisions properly in winter, though I'm somewhat less confident about your CFII knowing how to teach that if he's just saying not to fly in the winter.
     
  35. chemgeek

    chemgeek Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    496
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    chemgeek
    The nice thing about training in Central NY is that you will have ample opportunity to fly in actual. November-mid April can be brutal in these parts because of the Great Lakes icing machine. It is possible to pick up prodigious amounts of icing, even in the dead of winter, from lake effect clouds. On a good day, they are only 2000 feet thick and you can get above or below them easily when practicing approaches, but look out for carb icing. I started my IR training in late spring and took my checkride in August. Got plenty of actual, especially late spring/early summer.
     
  36. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2017
    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ and Ensenada, Mexico
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    rgbeard
    Fly out to one of those two-week classes? I think there’s still that operation in Vegas.

    It doesn’t snow there often.
     
  37. Michael Lloyd

    Michael Lloyd Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Weimar, TX VFR to KFMN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Michael Lloyd
    For some reason (probably divorce and raising kids as a single parent) I stopped flying a little while ago (like 22 years :) ) I was on my way to a tail wheel endorsement (3.3 in a Super Cub) and 38 hours into the instrument rating. I logged my last time on my birthday. Now I'm looking to get back into it, log some cross country (like 1,200 miles round trip cross country), and then work on my instrument rating (again). I've been through the Sporty's Instrument ground school and I like it. I haven't taken any of the tests. I want to go through the entire thing at least two more times so that I know the answer and why it's the answer. Then I'll take the tests. I think it's a good ground school and it's not that expensive.

    I may get some groaning here (and that's fine). This is literally my 2nd post and I don't have a feel for the group yet. But... There are a lot of professional pilots (not necessarily commercial) on YouTube (Steveo1kinevo, Premier1driver, BaronPilot, Corporate Pilot Life, and Nikko's Wings, to name a few) that, for a visual and aural learner like me, are pretty helpful. You obviously won't get your ticket by watching them but sometimes there are pretty good insights situations, approaches, ATC comm, etc as it relates to flight in IMC.

    I guess I had better explain "1200 mile round trip cross country". Work has me moving to the Durango, CO area and all of my kids and grandkids are down here in TX (between Houston and San Antonio). I've made the drive to/from enough times to be really tired of it. But, I don't want to miss anything (birthdays, holidays, etc) so I make the 16 hour trip, usually in a really long day, to see everyone. I'd be happy to drone along in a C172 and cut that in half or less. Unfortunately, I've struck out on rental aircraft up there (and down here for that matter) so I'm testing the "buy an airplane" idea, cautiously.

    This is a really long way around but the point I want to make is get the rating. Fly. Don't stop flying (unless you're in the hanger... flying in the hanger is really hard to do... so I'm told). Flying never, ever leaves your blood...
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  38. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Messages:
    243
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Hang 4
    @Michael Lloyd Add 310 Pilot to your youtube list. He's on this forum and both he and his SO are controllers.
     
  39. Michael Lloyd

    Michael Lloyd Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Weimar, TX VFR to KFMN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Michael Lloyd
    Yes!! My bad, thank you! My first "ride" in a twin was a 310 so it holds a special place in my memory (as does the Mooney). I've been following him on YT.
     
  40. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    10,199
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    agree, although I'm not sure I'd consider baronpilot, nikko or 310pilot as 'professional pilots'. youtubers with some good aviation content/editing skillz, yes. 'professional' or instructional, no.