You forgot, "I'm sure that was just a wind gust, and not your landing skills."
Rule of Thumb: If the FO makes a great landing, the CA goes and stands in the doorway. If the CA makes a bad landing, he makes the FO go stand in the doorway!
When dreams come true... (long)
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Rule of Thumb: If the FO makes a great landing, the CA goes and stands in the doorway. If the CA makes a bad landing, he makes the FO go stand in the doorway!
mtuomi
En-Route
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
CRM, Captain Rules the Machine.
Last night I did another stand-up to BJI, one of the killer short ones. It was my third one to BJI.
My modus operandi on these has been to defer to the CA on the outbound leg, then I'll bring us home in the morning.
This accomplishes two things: 1) It allows me to get a feel for the CA and his style, and how he likes to do things. (Despite SOP, there are still variations in style.) 2) I get to fly arrivals and approaches I'm familiar with back home.
Well, last night I was paired with the same CA I had flown with on Friday night to the same destination. A delightful guy of Eastern European heritage (though raised in the U.S.) who's flown all over the world for cargo companies (in Soviet aircraft!), as well as flying the CRJ all over Africa for the U.N. He's fun to be around and has a ton of riveting stories to share.
So last night he looks over at me and says, (in his heavy Russian/Romanian accent( "Well, I took us up there last time. Why don't you take us up there tonight."
"Whatever you say, Captain!" Gulp.
In reality it was no big deal, other than the wind. The surface reports were 170 at 14G20 and we were landing on runway 13. But the kicker was at 1,500' AGL the winds were out of the south at 65 knots! You can't believe the crab I held to make a downwind!
The turbulence and windshear on the approach were attention-getting, to say the least. At 50' thrust levers went to idle as I jockeyed in the correction and at 10' (I love radar altimeters!) I kicked the nose straight and held it to touchdown. I was sweating bullets.
From the left seat: (in the same heavy Russian/Romanian accent) "Good job. I'm impressed."
That was a good confidence builder. In the end it's just another airplane, but with 50 people (well, last night 32 people) sitting behind you there's an added pressure to perform.
Have I mentioned lately that I love my job?
My modus operandi on these has been to defer to the CA on the outbound leg, then I'll bring us home in the morning.
This accomplishes two things: 1) It allows me to get a feel for the CA and his style, and how he likes to do things. (Despite SOP, there are still variations in style.) 2) I get to fly arrivals and approaches I'm familiar with back home.
Well, last night I was paired with the same CA I had flown with on Friday night to the same destination. A delightful guy of Eastern European heritage (though raised in the U.S.) who's flown all over the world for cargo companies (in Soviet aircraft!), as well as flying the CRJ all over Africa for the U.N. He's fun to be around and has a ton of riveting stories to share.
So last night he looks over at me and says, (in his heavy Russian/Romanian accent( "Well, I took us up there last time. Why don't you take us up there tonight."
"Whatever you say, Captain!" Gulp.
In reality it was no big deal, other than the wind. The surface reports were 170 at 14G20 and we were landing on runway 13. But the kicker was at 1,500' AGL the winds were out of the south at 65 knots! You can't believe the crab I held to make a downwind!
The turbulence and windshear on the approach were attention-getting, to say the least. At 50' thrust levers went to idle as I jockeyed in the correction and at 10' (I love radar altimeters!) I kicked the nose straight and held it to touchdown. I was sweating bullets.
From the left seat: (in the same heavy Russian/Romanian accent) "Good job. I'm impressed."
That was a good confidence builder. In the end it's just another airplane, but with 50 people (well, last night 32 people) sitting behind you there's an added pressure to perform.
Have I mentioned lately that I love my job?
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jordane93
Touchdown! Greaser!
Keep the stories coming! I hope to be at the regionals soon. I'm coming up on 1000 hours
It's a good time to be getting on-board. And it's every bit as enjoyable as I ever imagined. They key, however, is living in base. Commuting stinks. So be prepared to relocated to wherever it is you get assigned...even if only for a period of months. It makes life MUCH better.
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KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
Or, you know, just go to an airline that has a base where you live. If your single, I could see moving to wherever you get based, but if you've got a family, moving to a base is a bad idea. Bases open and close way too often to start playing that game.
Well, obviously you need to assess the whole situation. But if you've got a family, extended commuting is a great way to get single again, based on the anecdotal evidence I've observed to date.
JoseCuervo
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JoseCuervo
Sounds like you had a good captain on this last trip.
Earlier you mentioned a captain you were going to put on your "avoid" list when you bid. Are you getting more of the "avoids", or was that a real scarce deal?
Earlier you mentioned a captain you were going to put on your "avoid" list when you bid. Are you getting more of the "avoids", or was that a real scarce deal?
I've now flown with 28 different captains. 27 have been terrific and I'd welcome the chance to fly with any one of them again. So I really believe the one guy is an anomaly. I'm sure there are more, but I suspect the ratio will only improve.
And so far I haven't even seen the bad one again, much less getting paired with him. The reality is, based on the number of trips I fly per month and the number of captains in our base, statistically I'll only fly with a given captain once every four years.
Stand ups change that dynamic slightly since there's a new captain every night, and there's a relatively small subset of captains that like (or at least don't mind) stand-ups and bid for them, so the odds of flying with the same captain on a stand-up is quite a bit higher.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
That's a possibility, but the possibility of moving to a new city just because you happen to be based there is riskier, IMO. But then again, anyone who has a family and is trying to live on regional FO pay, is rolling the dice way more than I would be willing to roll them.
The point remains, living in base is the vastly preferred option by anyone who has lived in the 121 world. While there are a myriad of reasons why you might put up with commuting, you better carefully assess the pros and cons and pick the carrier and location that best meets your quality of life requirements. Commuting is brutal.
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Kayoh@190
If I were single (as I believe Jordan is), I'd take Jonesy's advice and move to wherever I ended up being based. It'll make all the difference in the world.
But to KSCessnaDriver's point, it'd not an easy call when you have a family. Fortunately the regionals are hiring anyone with a pulse, so I'd pick whichever one has a base where you already live, or a base that makes the commute as easy as absolutely possible. Then cross your fingers they don't close it. But if you've gotta commute, you've gotta commute. It isn't always avoidable. Everyone's situation is different.
That said, I just recently moved to my base, and I'm still pinching myself that I'm only 30 minutes from setting the parking brake to cracking open a beer on my couch. 40 if I had to write some **** up.
But to KSCessnaDriver's point, it'd not an easy call when you have a family. Fortunately the regionals are hiring anyone with a pulse, so I'd pick whichever one has a base where you already live, or a base that makes the commute as easy as absolutely possible. Then cross your fingers they don't close it. But if you've gotta commute, you've gotta commute. It isn't always avoidable. Everyone's situation is different.
That said, I just recently moved to my base, and I'm still pinching myself that I'm only 30 minutes from setting the parking brake to cracking open a beer on my couch. 40 if I had to write some **** up.
nddons
Touchdown! Greaser!
I was talking on Saturday to an ATP that commutes from Milwaukee to his base in Boston. On Saturday he said he got up at 0400 at his crash pad to get a cab to Logan to fly to O'Hare to get a bus from ORD to MKE to get his car at MKE and drive to our CAF Wing meeting at KUES at 1030. Brutal. And I think he does the reverse on Tuesday.
jordane93
Touchdown! Greaser!
I'm still a ways to go but I'm thinking Endeavor or Air Wisconsin. Both have NY bases. A few guys from my flight school went to Endeavor and all got DTW as a base and they are commuting. Not sure if I'd be able to stay in NY and be able to survive off of first year pay.If I were single (as I believe Jordan is), I'd take Jonesy's advice and move to wherever I ended up being based. It'll make all the difference in the world.
But to KSCessnaDriver's point, it'd not an easy call when you have a family. Fortunately the regionals are hiring anyone with a pulse, so I'd pick whichever one has a base where you already live, or a base that makes the commute as easy as absolutely possible. Then cross your fingers they don't close it. But if you've gotta commute, you've gotta commute. It isn't always avoidable. Everyone's situation is different.
That said, I just recently moved to my base, and I'm still pinching myself that I'm only 30 minutes from setting the parking brake to cracking open a beer on my couch. 40 if I had to write some **** up.
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jordane93
Touchdown! Greaser!
It depends on where you live. My dad was based in DTW but Northwest had a flight like every hour to DTW so it was an easy commute. If you are living in a small city not serviced a lot by the airlines it can definitely be a lot more difficult.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
All other things being equal yes, living in base in good. I know just as many unhappy pilots who live in base as I know happy commuters. I live in base for my current employer. Hopefully, I'll be in base for the regional I'm headed to in November as well.
If money wasn't a concern, I'd be commuting both my current and upcoming job from Arizona, as well, Detoilet isn't my favorite place in the world.
I'm not sure how anyone does NYC and first year pay, even at Endeavor. Thankfully, it sounds like DTW is easy to get in training there, but I'll let you know when I get started how it plays out.
If I were single (as I believe Jordan is), I'd take Jonesy's advice and move to wherever I ended up being based. It'll make all the difference in the world.
But to KSCessnaDriver's point, it'd not an easy call when you have a family. Fortunately the regionals are hiring anyone with a pulse, so I'd pick whichever one has a base where you already live, or a base that makes the commute as easy as absolutely possible. Then cross your fingers they don't close it. But if you've gotta commute, you've gotta commute. It isn't always avoidable. Everyone's situation is different.
That said, I just recently moved to my base, and I'm still pinching myself that I'm only 30 minutes from setting the parking brake to cracking open a beer on my couch. 40 if I had to write some **** up.
Yeah, it's nice. It also opens up option for things like stand-ups which can be really difficult commuting.
I've flown with two captains this past week who recently moved into the base because the commute wasn't worth it. Fortunately, Minneapolis is a pretty decent place to live (despite our winters!) and they said their families were loving it.
But if your spouse had a great job she didn't want to leave, or other familial obligations (aging parents, etc.) I could see it being a difficult choice.
mtuomi
En-Route
At least you have Manny's there!
Is commuting a pain, full stop? Would it be "doable" if you lived one short hop away from base? Let's say you live in ATL but are based in IAH? Endless daily flights back and forth, would that be somewhat tolerable, or is commuting simply something prohibited in the Geneva convention?
nddons
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Kayoh@190
As you gathered, not all commutes are created equal, and it's not necessarily all about distance either. Of course one hop is almost always better than more, but there's other stuff I'd look at too:
As you mentioned, how many flights per day?
Are those airplanes my metal or someone else's? Offline commuting means being lower priority as a non-rev or jumpseater, so it's nicer to be riding on your own airline. It also makes it easier for me to list, check loads, and so on. At my company, I can reserve the jumpseat ahead of time, which is a huge bonus.
Are the airplanes regional or mainline? Jonsey works at one of the better regionals, but overall a mainline aircraft is less likely to be late or cancel. This is especially true for regionals struggling to find pilots, such as Republic.
How many other commuters am I competing against? If a lot of other pilots and FAs commute that city pair, it makes for a tougher commute.
There are other considerations too. Will I need a crashpad, and if so, are there good options near the airport, or will I need to spend money on a car as well? How expensive is the base? As someone above mentioned, having a crashpad in New York is an entirely different cost than having one in Detroit.
Anyway, those are some of the considerations off the top of my head. It all just leads to the main point - don't commute unless you absolutely have to!
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A LOT of people commute, so anything is doable. Sometimes the hub-to-hub are the most challenging. ATL to MSP can be a real challenge....as my son found out trying to non-rev between those to see his girlfriend! The other non-hub cities are are often easier.
Pffffft! One of MANY!
As you gathered, not all commutes are created equal, and it's not necessarily all about distance either. Of course one hop is almost always better than more, but there's other stuff I'd look at too:
As you mentioned, how many flights per day?
Are those airplanes my metal or someone else's? Offline commuting means being lower priority as a non-rev or jumpseater, so it's nicer to be riding on your own airline. It also makes it easier for me to list, check loads, and so on. At my company, I can reserve the jumpseat ahead of time, which is a huge bonus.
Are the airplanes regional or mainline? Jonsey works at one of the better regionals, but overall a mainline aircraft is less likely to be late or cancel. This is especially true for regionals struggling to find pilots, such as Republic.
How many other commuters am I competing against? If a lot of other pilots and FAs commute that city pair, it makes for a tougher commute.
There are other considerations too. Will I need a crashpad, and if so, are there good options near the airport, or will I need to spend money on a car as well? How expensive is the base? As someone above mentioned, having a crashpad in New York is an entirely different cost than having one in Detroit.
Anyway, those are some of the considerations off the top of my head. It all just leads to the main point - don't commute unless you absolutely have to!
All excellent points. Riding your own metal makes it easier, unless you have a lot of commuters from that base. We pull a lot of pilots from SLC so there can be some competition for seats on that commute.
So, like giving up half your weekends each month. That would definitely suck. Glad you got out of that rat race!
EvilEagle
Pattern Altitude
I've been commuting to NYC from New Orleans for about 10 months now. It's not that bad. We have between 6-9 flights a day on Delta (or Delta Connection) to either LGA or JFK. Add another 3-4 flights on Jet Blue to JFK and a handful on United and SWA to Newark if I have a trip there.
The commuters to ATL from here have it much worse - there's tons of them competing for those jumpseats and non-revs. There's not many of us that commute to NYC so I don't have a lot of competition. Plus, I like the longer flight up there - gives me time to sleep. I get bumped to business class on a lot of the flights up to work which means I get a meal - one less I have to buy at JFK.
I could've held ATL from the beginning, but the seniority (and trips) are better in NYC. I've been lucky - had a line from the beginning. I do have a crash pad in NY, but I only pay for the nights I use ($55/night) so it's not too bad.
The commute is definitely worse in the winter due to weather cancels, etc. It does cost you some time for sure, but so far it's not been a total killer. It would be worse if I was on reserve or couldn't get commutable trips. My normal western Europe runs leave in the mid-late afternoon so I can take the 8am flight from here. Not too bad.
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The commuters to ATL from here have it much worse - there's tons of them competing for those jumpseats and non-revs. There's not many of us that commute to NYC so I don't have a lot of competition. Plus, I like the longer flight up there - gives me time to sleep. I get bumped to business class on a lot of the flights up to work which means I get a meal - one less I have to buy at JFK.
I could've held ATL from the beginning, but the seniority (and trips) are better in NYC. I've been lucky - had a line from the beginning. I do have a crash pad in NY, but I only pay for the nights I use ($55/night) so it's not too bad.
The commute is definitely worse in the winter due to weather cancels, etc. It does cost you some time for sure, but so far it's not been a total killer. It would be worse if I was on reserve or couldn't get commutable trips. My normal western Europe runs leave in the mid-late afternoon so I can take the 8am flight from here. Not too bad.
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Crane Pilot
Pre-takeoff checklist
Jonesy have i told you lately YOU SUCK lmao. I love the stories and your day to day experience. I am or will be on my way to the airlines , so the latest posts about commuting is very interesting to me. As i live between KDAB 30 min , KSFB 20 min. and KMCO 1hr. travel time to each. I guess ill have several possibilities or at least hope to.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
Anything worth doing/seeing in MSP while I'm there, assuming I have some time to kill at some point in training? Granted, it will be November, so I'm sure snow is in the future at some time soon.
spiderweb
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nddons
Touchdown! Greaser!
Just now? You've got a lot of reading to do, Ben! This weekend sit down with a nice glass of bourbon and read this thread. By Monday you will be smashing you cello on your department chair's desk and telling him you're going to be changing professions and want to become an airline pilot. It's that inspiring.
spiderweb
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So true. I read a lot of this last night, but I have some major catching up to do!
Here is why this is extra special to me: I am a professional Classical musician. By definition, we do not earn money. I chose this, however, because I loved this.
Loren is a freaking Lawyer! He's taking a real salary cut by taking the job of FO for a regional. Anyone outside of this webboard would think he (and I, as you see, above) is insane.
You are right--it is inspiring! Do what makes you happy.
Glad you're enjoying the thread. Good luck on your journey.
There's a LOT to see and do in the metro. Ping me when you get here and I'll be happy to buy you a beverage and give you the full scoop!
Thanks, Ben! It's been quite the wild year in my 59th trip around the sun.
You can't put a price on some things in life. Pursuing a passion is one of them.
Like, how do you put a price on a sunrise over your childhood hometown from 29,000'! (This was earlier this week!)
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spiderweb
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Great shot!
Mason
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Mase
Livin The Dream:
Version II is out...hilarious! And all too accurate.
Check out the Barely Air video on how to talk like a pilot.
I spent the last two days flying through the remnants of Hurricane Patricia. Yesterday I did the flight into and out of ATL. It was varying between 400 to 600 OVC with light to moderate rain, winds gusting out of the SE at 13G20. I shot the ILS to 9R. I was in "White Needles" (FMS nav) on the arrival and decided to let it do the turn-in for the final approach since it usually does a little better job in that mode rather than "Green Needles" which is raw LOC data. But for some reason it failed to sequence and blew right through the course change. I caught it, kicked off the autopilot and initiated a turn back towards the localizer just as approach called noting we had passed through it. I decided to just hand fly the rest of the approach.
It was a fairly bumpy, wild ride on the entire approach, right down to the runway. It was highly gratifying to haul 50 passengers safely through it all and deliver them to their destination.
We had an hour and a half sit in ATL, then loaded up 50 more people (why is EVERY plane FULL these days?!) and took them to Fayetteville, AR, back through the storm. We had a conga line of about nine aircraft ahead of us when we joined. We were able to dodge most of heavy stuff, although we did shed both security stickers off the nose access doors! I replaced those before our final leg back home to MSP.
It was a good two-day trip. I leave again today on a four-day. After several weeks of stand-ups I'm enjoying being able to hand out with a crew again.
It was a fairly bumpy, wild ride on the entire approach, right down to the runway. It was highly gratifying to haul 50 passengers safely through it all and deliver them to their destination.
We had an hour and a half sit in ATL, then loaded up 50 more people (why is EVERY plane FULL these days?!) and took them to Fayetteville, AR, back through the storm. We had a conga line of about nine aircraft ahead of us when we joined. We were able to dodge most of heavy stuff, although we did shed both security stickers off the nose access doors! I replaced those before our final leg back home to MSP.
It was a good two-day trip. I leave again today on a four-day. After several weeks of stand-ups I'm enjoying being able to hand out with a crew again.
