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Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by FormerHangie, Nov 30, 2017.
Who was making fun of it! I have my application in. Not.
I know, was kiddin'.
Nothing better than a wholesome career in the porn business.
I live in Brooklyn. I enjoy it, but I was born and raised in Socal so I'm used to being around a sea of humanity. There's tons to do within walking distance of where I live - great restaurants, bars, museums, pretty much anything you can think of. That said, I'm only here because my fiancée is doing a residency at a Brooklyn hospital. It's a fun place to be in the meantime, but once she's done we'll likely move to a place that's a little more laid back (and less expensive!).
Wake up at 6, drink coffee while I scour nonsense news and forums. Around 8 I check emails follow up on some calls. Make a couple calls. Send a few emails. Then drive or fly around to look at properties and meet with contractors/ city planners.
Somewhere in there I find ~2 hours for a bike ride and or time with airplane.
Thanks! Many of you make me feel much better about my job.
I'm in IT Management, back on the Delivery side, which I much prefer. I was on the Production Support side with a sizeable org; 90-100 people. I kept getting more teams and people, but not more pay. I kept driving yearly multi-million hard dollar savings, but just getting average bonuses. So I moved to another spot. Got a raise, fewer people to manage and a sane schedule.
No longer get calls to join Production Support incident calls to herd the cats and report to senior management at all hours. It was nuts. Evenings, during the day wrecking my schedule, weekends, making it damn near impossible to plan anything.
I get up early, 4:45 am, sometimes a little later, but that's to workout in the morning before going to the office. I leave home by 7 am for my 15 min drive. I try to leave the office early to have a 15-20 min commute home. Otherwise it can be 25-30 min, ugh. Then I finish up my day from home.
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LOL... I really didn't have no choice in the matter. At the time (1994-95) I got involved in the internet side of things, the only people who were doing anything that was technology driven were the porn operators. Much of what you see today (rev share programs, affiliate programs, ad serving/cookie tracking, etc.) was all originally derived in the porn industry. The mainstream businesses didn't really catch on until another 5-10 years later. Google, Amazon, E-bay, etc. weren't even around in those days. Amazon was a book store where people could post their used books for sale. Google was just beginning to run their spiders and were in competition with WebCrawler, Lycos, Infoseek, and others. E-bay was a garage sale site and only had a handful of listings.
Just to set the record straight. I haven't been in the porn business for almost 20 years now. I sold all my sites, and the majority of all my porn related domain names. Sure is funny everybody always poo-poos the business side of the industry, when they themselves are/were my biggest clients. You wouldn't believe the number of .gov, .edu, .mil clients I had when I was running those sites. It was hilarious.
If it makes y'all feel better, you are all part of a large cohort of disheartened engineering graduates/employees who end up flowing to professional flying, regardless of the economics. I'm an engineering graduate myself (BS and MS) and I knew before I graduated I was never going to work it.
There's absolutely no guarantee the wave will be favorable to people in your position in order to materialize the gains fabled by those who are in a position of luxury wrt airline employment. What is true is that based on your account, it's not gonna get better for y'all on the engineering front. I recommend making the pivot now. I understand life is not simple when it comes to these logistics, but in the end you guys are not gonna be happy long term in present vocational choice. Could the airline bid be a blunder? Absolutely, as @kayoh190 has illustrated, there's fundamental lifestyle nuances to an airline job that makes it treacherous for people with the expectation of having children and/or working spouses. But the way it reads, you guys can't go but up from where you're currently at. Save money and get going on the training, and give it a try. Engineering will be there for ya, lackluster retirement and all, if you have to come back to it with tail between the legs. Don't lose a marriage over it if you actually care for the person (I'm divorced and remarried so I say that without animosity, and rather plainly), but otherwise make the change at the earliest possible convenience.
Good luck gentlemen, you're not anywhere near being unique in your personal circumstances, which is good (support) and bad (labor surplus galore).
If your neck ain't red it don't count.
I used to live in Park Slope during residency. If you can put up with the typical NYC BS, it's a great place to live. My wife still has professional connections in Brooklyn, who knows, maybe we'll move back once the kids are out of the house.
Sounds to me like just the wrong engineering job. What you describe is part of the reason I turned down a larger aerospace company for a smaller supplier.
I'm a mechanical engineer working for a supplier to the aerospace industry and overall really enjoy what I do. Design, drafting, FEA analysis, interfacing with customers, interfacing with suppliers, working with manufacturing/quality/marketing/sales, presenting design reviews, writing technical proposals, writing test plans & reports, witnessing tests (and personally performing them. yup I really get to turn wrenches from time-to-time), designing test rigs, R&D (time-permitting), aftermarket support, ... the list goes on. You name it, I get to do it. My group is a small engineering team of 4 people that works on a product line that makes up 1/10 of our larger company. Everyone in our group does a little of everything. Sure there are days where you're just pushing papers, but overall the variety is great and I frequently get to learn new things.
7 days in a week. Our weekends generally change from year to year, so not really relevant.
1st day: Go in at 3pm till 11pm
2nd day: 1:15pm till 9:15pm
3rd day: Either 1:15pm till 9:15pm or 6:15am till 2:15pm
4th day: 5:30am till 1:30pm
5th (still 4th day) day: 5:30am till 1:30pm or (10pm till 6am)
6th day: My one day off
7th day: My mandatory/non-voluntary forced OT: 1:30pm till 9:30pm
The above "normal" schedule is great for the circadian rhythm.
Usually on position for 1 hr 30 min on average (may not sound like a lot but can fry out your brain depending on what all is going on during that time). They shoot for not normally more than 2 hrs followed by a break of usually 30 min (45 on good days). Click on the white flashing things and then tell them what to do till they are all lined up about 3 1/2 miles apart at the same speeds touching down about 2.5 miles apart. Usually controlled chaos sometimes (during weather events) just chaos. High stakes video game with no options to ctrl+alt+delete.
Some times there are briefings to attend (either face to face or on the computer). Usually new procedures/equipment/people who want to re-invent the wheel. Sometimes travel to D.C or OKC but generally rare.
I will say that it is an amazing job for me and I've had the opportunity to do great things. I started at a very busy AF base. Then worked the busiest contract tower in the country. Then the busiest tower. Got to work the busiest airshow for 3 years. Now work at the busiest stand alone TRACON. I would prefer to go to a lesser cost of living area in the south and put my feet up (so to speak) for the rest of my career but I'm stuck at a critically staffed facility that will not allow anyone to leave for the foreseeable future.
I use to live (really look forward to going in) for work. Now I've transitioned into the work to live camp. Had an interview with the regional's and canceled it to switch to ATC 16 years ago. I do at times (especially now that the pay and benefits have rebounded a bit from 9/11) wonder if I made the best choice. I'll never have a chance to make wide-body captain pay but ultimately, I think I did...for me.
Even after talking to planes all day rattling off approach clearances/etc I still love to swing out to the hangar and fire up the plane and fly around...strangely enough talking to ATC for the most part...it's relaxing.
What AF base were ya at? I might've been there.
You were. Eglin.
When? Think you may have told me that. I was in the RAPCON then tower. Very busy, you're right. I was there in 81-85 so doubt you were there then.
Yea...I have heard that and there could very well be some truth to that. I have already told myself that if I stick with engineering I will try to find a smaller company to work for. That is easier said than done though. Seems like finding the small companies is hard, and when you do find them they want people with tons of experience. We will see what the future has in store.
Just out of curiosity...what is it that you recommend? Another career/industry altogether? I am genuinely curious as to what you would do if military wasn't an option.
I'll be honest...I really don't buy the stereotypical "if your an airline pilot you can't have a good family life or have kids". This is in no way a low blow to pilots, but flying is not the only career that requires you to be away from family (this should be obvious). I work with a group of engineers who are in quality engineering. It is not uncommon for them to be gone 3 weeks out of the month. My mom is in medical sales and her last job's territory had her traveling several weeks out of the month. My uncle is a very well respected orthopedic surgeon in northern California and works 80 hour work weeks like it's the norm. Sure he is home most nights, but that doesn't leave much "family" time. I'm not trying to debate your points - I have certainly thought about the cons of making a career out of flying. There are a lot of unknowns just like any other career. Your points are valid. Who knows, I could leave engineering and go be a pilot and have it completely explode in my face. But honestly man, I don't buy into the "oh your an airline pilot, your doomed for divorce and you can't have kids". I know a lot of airline pilots. Ranging from the regionals to the majors. From FOs to Captains at Southwest. Most are married and have great families. Quite frankly, none of them live this ****ty life that so many try to convey over on airlinepilotcentral (this site is just damn depressing).
Here is the other facet. I have an engineering degree. I am paying for my ratings out of pocket. I have no debt. I am not like many of these kids coming out of ATP, Embry Riddle, etc with TENS of thousands in debt. That is not a fun position to be in and it is not a position I intend to put myself in. Period. I am not desperate for an airline job. I don't need that job to pay off 100K in debt to Mr. Wells Fargo. THAT would sure as hell take the fun out of flying. It's no different than my dad's dental students who are HALF A MILLION dollars in debt. It is ridiculous. But hey debt is the American dream. Go ahead - sign up for ATP - 65K ain't nothing.
There are no guarantees in life, but I just get sick of people constantly pulling the negative out of every possible career path. It is tiring. I knock engineering, not because I don't think it is capable of being a great career. I know it is. I just think I would be happier doing something else.
One thing I have learned in the past few years is to take everyone's advice with a grain of salt. A tiny grain of salt. I don't agree with the false premise that, "well I have taken the high road and my career path is the best and my life is so fine and dandy, look at me". It honestly drives me nuts how many people out there are like that. This world needs a slice of humble pie. Way too many egomaniacs out there.
Anyways...I am getting off subject. This wasn't meant to be a rant. I understand and can agree with most of what you have stated. I appreciate the feedback, but I felt like I needed to add a few points to the conversation.
My brother's facility is at min staffing (16). Getting leave is next to impossible. Bunch of students but no real stand outs and they're taking forever to get signed off. What contract tower were you at?
I hear ya on the "work to live" philosophy. I used to revolve around flying, whether it be military or now civilian. Over time the job hasn't gotten old but it becomes more of a professional endeavor vs a passion. In a way that's good. I've seen too many get over emotional about flying only to be let down...military in particular. I still enjoy it and still the same effort / attention to detail in doing it but my time outside of work is priority these days.
That makes two of us. Hang on, let me check my business card. Oh wait, never mind. I just got promoted (Dilbert principle?).
Yeah, getting time off is near impossible. We don't get fresh people here but have been getting very low level prior facility controllers that are taking forever or washing out. It hasn't kept up with the retirements. Qualified people are opting not to come to a high cost of living area, in a crappy climate, with goofy politics/taxes, to bust their butts short everyday, knowing they won't ever be able to leave. Unfortunately the end isn't in sight yet.
I was at IWA (Williams Gateway) contract tower between the AF and the FAA. I could write a long long story about that place. The short version is it should be an FAA facility. When it started out it was dead and made sense to contract. They moved a bunch of large regional flight schools there and it is very busy with the only practice ILS in the valley. They have a mix of fighters (F18/T38's regularly), KC135's, fixed and rotary wing trainers and some commercial traffic. When I was there (the last time I looked at their traffic count) they did the same number of ops as CLE and TPA at a VFR tower. Fixed wing traffic on the out board parallels, opposite direction traffic on the ILS center and helo's on the farthest outboard taxiways. It's a lot for the 5-6 FPL's we had and 2-3 trainees to say the least. That isn't shift staffing, that was full facility total staffing. Maybe it's different now? I hope so.
It's always interesting to read about the various jobs (seems we have a lot of IT and Engineers) and backgrounds many here have, and how well they like/hate their chosen professions. I frequent my local cigar lounge 3 or 4 times a week and the regulars who hang out there are quite interesting in their own right, and are always a pleasure to converse with. The gamut runs from everything to a millionaire real estate developer, tenured college math professor, a couple dental students, a retired ASU University football coach, retired FBI agent, a TESLA rep, a City of Phoenix urban planner, a sky crane operator, a couple IT business owners, a Waste Management executive, a professional golfer, an F-35 driver, a Doctor's Without Borders volunteer, a horse trainer, a SWA pilot/ANG tanker driver, a custom car builder, and several others I can't think of right off the top of my head. We usually talk business, politics, sports, and of course cigars. Some hate their jobs and can't wait until they retire, others love their jobs and would work for free if they didn't need to make a living. Every time I go in, there's always something new I learn about a particular person and their lifestyles. Latest was a guy from England who worked for the Royal family and spilled the beans to us on all their nasty little secrets. It's very interesting to say the least...
I thought that was LongWoodBob..
or maybe it was Road
OK azblackbird, we're waiting....
Another engineer here seriously kicking around the idea of doing professional flying....
I keep considering it. I'm 2/3 of the way to ATP minimums but I'm really not sure about that severe of a pay cut... On the other hand, it's not like I want to keep doing what I'm doing.
Meet Bob. Bob was happy with his job. Until they all went to prison...
The reason that I responded the way I did to your original post is that what you said is so far away from what my job is like, autonomy wise. You said:
For Dog's sake, Spongebob has more autonomy at the Krabby Patty than that! What I get as a starting point is a need from someone in the business to accomplish some goal. I then tell them some possible ways to do that, and give them an idea of the level of effort needed to accomplish that goal. Sometimes I do a large amount of the programming, other times little or none. Each one of us is expected to be able to accomplish their portion of the project with minimal supervision. If someone needs help, they ask, but if they don't, we assume they are working towards the goal.
I keep hearing people warn others about their current careers. I work in IT. Should you? That depends, do you have an aptitude for it, and do you derive some satisfaction from it? If so, yes, you should. If the answer to either is "no", you probably shouldn't. We all have to find something that we can do and can do for a long time without burning out, and it's not the same thing for all of us! Some jobs are better than others, but none of them are perfect. There's a reason it's called work and why they pay us to show up.
I'm not knocking the airlines brother, if anything I'm being more pointed about engineering jobs, which was a working construct I grew to loathe. Matter of fact, I've come to generally regret having forewent my college years by enduring the grind of completing an engineering education with a GPA competitive enough to get me into the military. I did it for the wrong reasons, but hindsight is 2020 . That, and I was a captive audience as a 20 year old with 3 years' worth of undergraduate work already sunk in cost (aka little incentive to re-tread by the time one realizes the work environment is a non-starter).
At any rate. I was just saying if you're that bogged down with your circumstances, and I'll be honest, your posts read very despondent about your current vocational choice, then make the pivot. I'm not being flippant, I recognize the economic logistics are not simple. As to the military and your potential medical disqualification, I don't know what to tell you. Ask the question anyways and see if there's any waiver precedent. Otherwise, I can tell you that I told myself back then. If mil aviation wasn't available, I wanted to pursue a job that I didn't absolutely hate, that would afford me both the economic ability and the time off to enjoy recreational aviation in earnest. I'm not gonna be a hypocrite and say I wouldn't have pursued airline work, when I was never tested on my bluff, since I was able to get into TAC military aviation, which is what I always wanted to do.
Whatever you do, life's too short to be miserable with work. Find a balance that works for ya, only you know what that is. Good luck to ya.
I assume the first thing you'd want to do if you're considering an airline career would be to go to an Airmen Medical Examiner and get a consult on whether or not you'd pass the needed medical. If that ain't happening, no need to go further.
Sounds like WORK - a four letter word.
Bingo! I do some consulting to help pay the travel expenses for the standards committees I still am active in, but retired is my general category. I still don't fly enough.
Like CC268 I work in a materials/process engineering group except I am employed with the DOD at a Navair aircraft rework facility. I am the SME for the facilities electroplating shop. I am responsible for all of the technical aspects of its operation. I wear many hats. I work closely with production supervision. I act as a technical resource in my field for all of the aircraft platforms, H-53, AV-8B, V-22, F-35. I enjoy working the technical aspects, being the go to guy. But the management BS working as a DOD civilian is very frustrating. But I do like the technical stuff and being around all the aircraft. But as soon as I can retire, I will. Go do something else. I always wanted to do a sailing transatlantic.
Already done that buster brown. First class medical Is no problem.
Wow interesting to see another materials engineer here on PoA.
It sounds like a lot of fun. I would really enjoy flying professionally. Unfortunately i wouldnt be any better at flying professionally than i am at being an engineer. Probably much worse. And im probably overpaid as it is
I thought the same thing. If you want to chat off forum that would be nice.
Hey y'all get a room willya!
Yea feel free to start up a private message