What would make you rent more?

[arnoha]

You're kidding, right? Plenty of rental outfits, clubs, and partnerships don't use online scheduling systems. The club with a bunch of older-generation members isn't as likely to utilize it, and many smaller rental outfits still use a hand-written rental calendar at the front desk.

No, I'm dead serious. My view is probably skewed given where I live, I'll admit. Of the three airports I tend to fly out of and have familiarity with the clubs, all of them have online systems for booking. That's more than a dozen clubs. I don't understand the paper book system as you'd have to have someone who actually answers a phone and reads and writes in the book for every booking, every inquiry, every schedule change, along with manually accounting and charging. That sounds ridiculously expensive!

 

[azpilot]

I've never seen a club that doesn't have an online scheduling system. Does that actually exist?

One of the FBO's I rent from uses paper and pencil for all reservations.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Here comes the question whether the market is big enough for renters who'd like to rent when away to be worth going after. Obviously, OpenAirplane does little good for those who only / mainly rent locally.

I think that's about the only way OpenAirplane becomes beneficial. If I want to fly an aircraft while out of town on vacation/business and don't want to hassle with a checkout, OpenAirplane becomes more viable assuming I've already done an annual "UPC" in the type of aircraft I have available nearby. Otherwise, you're right back where you started by having to do a checkout. The fact that a valid pilots certificate and appropriate endorsements is not enough to rent an aircraft is an issue with the rental system as it is. If you've logged time in a 172 for a few hours PIC, and have a current certificate, I don't see why a checkout is ever required; even less so if you are carrying non-owned insurance.

 

[azpilot]

No, I'm dead serious. My view is probably skewed given where I live, I'll admit. Of the three airports I tend to fly out of and have familiarity with the clubs, all of them have online systems for booking. That's more than a dozen clubs. I don't understand the paper book system as you'd have to have someone who actually answers a phone and reads and writes in the book for every booking, every inquiry, every schedule change, along with manually accounting and charging. That sounds ridiculously expensive!

I believe you. Right now I rent from two FBO's. One has a online reservation system. The other does not. Oddly enough, it is the big FBO (with ~25 airplanes), that still does everything with paper and pencil. It is a mom and pop shop and the owners are still very involved in the operations. I kind of get the feel from them that, this has always worked, so there's no reason to change it.

The smaller FBO doesn't always have someone at the front desk, so they use the online scheduling as it saves the expense of having someone there to answer the phone all the time.

 

[SoonerAviator]

No, I'm dead serious. My view is probably skewed given where I live, I'll admit. Of the three airports I tend to fly out of and have familiarity with the clubs, all of them have online systems for booking. That's more than a dozen clubs. I don't understand the paper book system as you'd have to have someone who actually answers a phone and reads and writes in the book for every booking, every inquiry, every schedule change, along with manually accounting and charging. That sounds ridiculously expensive!

Sometimes the work is done by a receptionist who is already at the FBO doing other necessary work. It's not usually the case that they have a dedicated scheduler position, but someone who is generally running the entire show and has the scheduling as one of the duties. Some use electronic scheduling systems, but aren't online. Different strokes.

 

[azpilot]

...The fact that a valid pilots certificate and appropriate endorsements is not enough to rent an aircraft is an issue with the rental system as it is. If you've logged time in a 172 for a few hours PIC, and have a current certificate, I don't see why a checkout is ever required; even less so if you are carrying non-owned insurance.

Where does this come from. Is it an FBO requirement or an insurance requirement. Could you imagine if every time you wanted to rent a car, you had to do a driving checkout with Herts? Then, when you decide to rent from Avis next time, you have to do a new driving checkout with them.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Before or after the flight?

either is fine.....I don't drink.

 

[bradg33]

Where does this come from. Is it an FBO requirement or an insurance requirement. Could you imagine if every time you wanted to rent a car, you had to do a driving checkout with Herts? Then, when you decide to rent from Avis next time, you have to do a new driving checkout with them.

It's a combination of the two. Most commercial insurance policies require some sort of checkout, though the wording in every policy I've seen is extremely broad and gives the FBO/operator a lot of latitude in determining particular requirements, save for high performance/complex airplanes. Under many policies, all the FBO/Operator has to do is ensure you have a license, a medical and have demonstrated something like "adequate ability" to operate airplane you want to rent. The better FBOs use that flexibility to give their CFIs the discretion to issue broader checkouts (if you checkout in a 182, you can also fly the 172 and 152) where warranted. The ****tier (IMHO) FBOs insist that every single pilot do a checkout in every single make and model of airplane they rent, regardless of how similar. In many cases, that's not an insurance company requirement (though they're quick to tell you that).

 

[jspilot]

The biggest question here is whether or not it actually increases hours flown and what the breakdown on fixed operating costs are. If an incentive pushed utilization up on a near-break-even price up to where a plane flew nearly twice as much, it could be a fairly big deal. If you are spreading $4000/yr insurance over 500 hours a year (10 per week) that's $8/hr for insurance. Hangar and overhead costs are also fixed costs per year most of the time. If you push that to 1000 hrs/yr per aircraft that same rate could go down by 50% - but that's really not that much. Fuel costs, engine and mx costs, are all pretty much the same hour-by-hour and really and truly, if you get a lot of the pilots who aren't flying enough to fly more, you may see better safety, but some of them are going to increase the risks a bunch, too, and your maintenance costs may be driven right back up. Also, in my opinion, you can't have both a really nice interior and a LOT of hours. Sooner or later it's going to cost a bunch of money for a new interior.

This is exactly the way an FBO owner should be looking at their business if you ask me. You want to maximize your planes time in the air while minimizing the planes wear and tear. If I owned and FBO I'd operate by the slogan "if the prop is spinning, I'm winning!"

At the same time though, I think a smart FBO owner wants to capitalize on longer cross country flights and try and minimize the amount of "slam and go's" the renter puts on the plane. If you give discounts that are only 2 hours long( I.e "fly between 8-10am on weekdays and recieve 8 bucks off an hour,") the FBO is encouraging local flights which put lots of wear on the plane, wear out the interiors quicker( because of the amount of people getting into and out of the planes) and further beat up the plane. Now if the FBO owner had that same 8 dollar off an hour policy, and made the caveat " take a cross country flight that's more than 60nm's away between the hours of 8 and 12-plane must be tied down by 12-" that FBO is guaranteeing themselves about 275 dollars per plane( based on rates around me) and minimizing the plane's abuse.

So I'd go that route if I ran an FBO.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I like non run-of-the-mill planes. Planes other than 152/172s and Cherokees get me excited about renting.

This. As an airplane owner, I rent what I either can't afford to own or can afford but wouldn't fly it enough to justify owning.

Back before I was in a position to own, I cared far more about the quality of the maintenance, condition of the airplane and what was in the panel far more than the hourly rate.

 

[RyanShort1]

This is exactly the way an FBO owner should be looking at their business if you ask me. You want to maximize your planes time in the air while minimizing the planes wear and tear. If I owned and FBO I'd operate by the slogan "if the prop is spinning, I'm winning!"

At the same time though, I think a smart FBO owner wants to capitalize on longer cross country flights and try and minimize the amount of "slam and go's" the renter puts on the plane. If you give discounts that are only 2 hours long( I.e "fly between 8-10am on weekdays and recieve 8 bucks off an hour,") the FBO is encouraging local flights which put lots of wear on the plane, wear out the interiors quicker( because of the amount of people getting into and out of the planes) and further beat up the plane. Now if the FBO owner had that same 8 dollar off an hour policy, and made the caveat " take a cross country flight that's more than 60nm's away between the hours of 8 and 12-plane must be tied down by 12-" that FBO is guaranteeing themselves about 275 dollars per plane( based on rates around me) and minimizing the plane's abuse.

So I'd go that route if I ran an FBO.

For a busy school cross country joy rides aren't really cost effective. If someone takes the plane for the day and puts 4 hours on the plane, but the plane would have flown 6 hours at home with students, it's NOT a plus. That and if something breaks at home it's usually a LOT cheaper to fix it at home than to give business to some FBO miles away. I've seen that happen numerous times.

 

[PaulMKE]

Is it an FBO requirement or an insurance requirement. Could you imagine if every time you wanted to rent a car, you had to do a driving checkout with Herts? .

I always figured it is an insurance requirement, regardless I highly value the checkout in a new A/C as it seems no two are the same and usually have some nuance they want you to know - avionics switch moved here, door latch is sticky, fire extinguisher is here.

Dont think I've experienced more than ~0.5 on the Hobbs for a checkout in a make/model I am proficient in, so it's not a huge barrier, still free checkout will definitely encourage me to fly more as it gives me more flexibility to fly on my schedule.

Incentivize me to expand my skills - tailwheel, complex, high perf - I'll be there.

 

[Fearless Tower]

For a busy school cross country joy rides aren't really cost effective. If someone takes the plane for the day and puts 4 hours on the plane, but the plane would have flown 6 hours at home with students, it's NOT a plus. That and if something breaks at home it's usually a LOT cheaper to fix it at home than to give business to some FBO miles away. I've seen that happen numerous times.

Exactly. That is why the busy schools tend to have high x-country minimums.

 

[jspilot]

For a busy school cross country joy rides aren't really cost effective. If someone takes the plane for the day and puts 4 hours on the plane, but the plane would have flown 6 hours at home with students, it's NOT a plus. That and if something breaks at home it's usually a LOT cheaper to fix it at home than to give business to some FBO miles away. I've seen that happen numerous times.

I'm not talking about a busy school. Those types of places don't need to increase bussiness, they are busy, so by definition they don't need more bussiness! This thread is about what would get people to fly more.

I'm not sure it's actually true cost vs profit wise that a plane that is used more always equals more profit. Those 6 hours of student flights you say would need to be done over about 12 hours of real life time( because 6 hours of flight time would need 2 hour blocks to realistically achieve considering preflights, taxi, run ups, waiting to take off and taxing back to the ramp.) All, that can't be accomplished during the 4 hours to take the XC. Plus, that's at least 3 more sets of pilots and instructors getting into and out of the plane and beating up the interior and the doors and the like. FBO's that are not busy need to limit the abuse their planes take or else they will constantly be in in the shop. I get that having a plane sit on a ramp for 6 hours far away and unused is not good for the FBO but that would not be my suggestion. If FBO's gave the renter a 4 hour block, perfect for the 100 hamburger or 100 pancake run, and let him recieve a discount to do so, I think FBO's would limit the wear and tear on the plane( XC's are way less taxing on a plane) and maximize profits.

Of course you may get to the 100 hour inspections sooner but that may be offset by less day to day maintenance

 

[Ravioli]

Scheduling priority AND no daily minimums.

Ex: If you're a "premier" renter, you may schedule trips up to X days long, 3 weeks in advance, and pay no daily minimums.
Ex: If you're a "premier" renter, you may schedule single day trips 2 weeks in advance with no daily minimums

All renters inside the 2 week window are first come, first served.

Rational: Students are typically catch as catch can for 2-3 hour blocks. People wanting longer blocks are usually planning it out. It's unusual to wake up Wednesday morning and "feel like" a three day trip.

 

[gov98]

We have to just accept that the FBOs interest and my interest are not aligned. What would make me rent more...would be being able to be a part of a club like plus one flyers. That to me would be incredible. Have access to a 182T for my mountain trip, have access to a cherokee six for a trip to LV, have access to a cirrus for the 1000 NM vacation away, and access to the decent retract for the 300 NM family trip, and finally access to the Cessna 150 when I need to make some laps in the pattern. That to me would be ideal.

To the FBO though, that would mean have 4 planes that rent hardly at all, and one woefully overbooked 150. Unfortunately, my solution is...move to a place like San Diego. Or just own a cheap compromise. I went with the latter.

 

[Caramon13]

Example 1: Flight school posts on Facebook that today between 4pm and 8pm your favorite 172 is $20 off per hour. Would you jump at the opportunity for some spur of the moment flying?

Example 2: Flight school has regular specials, a "Happy Hour" of sorts for flying. So if Tuesday mornings are regularly under-utilized a regularly weekly special of "Get the Piper Archer for the Piper Warrior price on Tuesdays from 7am to noon".

Example 3: Would you be inclined to change where you rent from (assuming the two places are located on the same field) for a special price? Like "Get checked out in our 172R and the ground instruction fee is waived if your zip-code is xxxxx-xxxxx"

Example 4: A flight school joining OpenAirplane. Though since OpenAirplane does take a cut (and rightfully so) prices are slightly higher than standard.

I've gotten checked out at 4 different places in the area, even paid a membership fee for two of them so I have low-cost options available when I just wanna go up for a little bit.

I have three Arrows available to me at any time, about 8-9 172's, 3 162's, a Saratoga, Seminole, Baron, Seneca and a Cessna 150.

The only thing that would make me rent more would be me getting a 10% raise next year. Not in my control, so I am doing consulting work to feed the habit

 

[jsstevens]

This. As an airplane owner, I rent what I either can't afford to own or can afford but wouldn't fly it enough to justify owning.

Back before I was in a position to own, I cared far more about the quality of the maintenance, condition of the airplane and what was in the panel far more than the hourly rate.

I hear this rationale a good bit and I agree it makes sense, except, where I live (Orlando FL, not exactly a backwater) there are no complex or twins available that do not belong to 0-hero schools. I have access to C-172s. There are 3 clubs in the area (one of which may be inactive) which would get me into a 182 and a 172RG. I'd love to have access to a Lance, 310, Aztec, Bo - something higher performance, but they just don't exist on the rental lines here.

John

 

[oldShar]

Increased availability (physical and reliable)

 

[wayne]

Mir, who is your target audience? It's not "pilots". Are you looking for more students? More short local fliers and $100 Hamburger flights? More people that travel and go places? They will all have different needs, which is why you see so many different suggestions here.

It's a business, so what will drive your business to be more successful? Probably a mix of the above, but which is your main target audience. Then what fits their needs best, while making your business profitable? Students might be your biggest revenue generator, but you'll have to do continual marketing to keep the flow going. If they don't have the ability to do much after that it will impact your marketing.

What ages are your students? They'll have different drivers as they'll have different available hours for training and incomes for training dollars.

As Sixie posted a grill with burgers and hot dogs can get people out. Do a presentation with it too if that helps. EAA chapters often do a monthly pancake breakfast with a presentation/program. With people's different schedules you may want to do more than one to catch everyone. A pancake breakfast, a weekend afternoon lunch, a weekday evening session.

Put together flights to somewhere. Get a group together and fly to some destination. Doesn't need to be a huge deal. Lunch/dinner somewhere, a AA baseball game, whatever. Get people together and flying.

Make sure there's a way for people to meet and know each other. From the meals to presentations to a local web forum. Make sure they can find other pilots to fly with whether it's just to fly around, $100 Hamburger runs or having a safety pilot for approach practice. Make it easy for them to go flying and have fun doing it. That's probably more important than shaving $5/hr off the rate. If they don't have someone to go with on that $100 Hamburger run they may not go. If they have trouble finding a safety pilot they may not go and may even end up letting it lapse. Help make it easier for them to get out and go flying.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I hear this rationale a good bit and I agree it makes sense, except, where I live (Orlando FL, not exactly a backwater) there are no complex or twins available that do not belong to 0-hero schools. I have access to C-172s. There are 3 clubs in the area (one of which may be inactive) which would get me into a 182 and a 172RG. I'd love to have access to a Lance, 310, Aztec, Bo - something higher performance, but they just don't exist on the rental lines here.

John

Yup, that's exactly what keeps me from renting as often, too. I don't have access to anything but a fleet of decent 172s, 152s, or a twin-trainer Seminole at any FBO/rental outfit in the Tulsa area. I'm sure if I dug hard enough, I could probably find someone who'd be willing to rent a 182 or similar out to me, but that involves trying to make connections at an airport 20+ minutes away. If the FBO had a 182 out on the line, I'd probably be renting it 5-6 times a year. As it is, I rent from them 1-2 times per year. I don't need a Cessna TTx, a Baron 58, or even a retract for that matter. I just need a load-hauler, and possibly another 15-20kts of cruise speed. The 182/Comanche 250/Cherokee Six would be a great addition to the line, but I just don't think it's in the cards. Hopefully I get lucky and get my name called for the Wings of Hope raffle and it all becomes a non-issue.

 

[Z06_Mir]

Mir, who is your target audience? It's not "pilots". Are you looking for more students? More short local fliers and $100 Hamburger flights? More people that travel and go places? They will all have different needs, which is why you see so many different suggestions here.

It's a business, so what will drive your business to be more successful? Probably a mix of the above, but which is your main target audience. Then what fits their needs best, while making your business profitable? Students might be your biggest revenue generator, but you'll have to do continual marketing to keep the flow going. If they don't have the ability to do much after that it will impact your marketing.

What ages are your students? They'll have different drivers as they'll have different available hours for training and incomes for training dollars.

As Sixie posted a grill with burgers and hot dogs can get people out. Do a presentation with it too if that helps. EAA chapters often do a monthly pancake breakfast with a presentation/program. With people's different schedules you may want to do more than one to catch everyone. A pancake breakfast, a weekend afternoon lunch, a weekday evening session.

Put together flights to somewhere. Get a group together and fly to some destination. Doesn't need to be a huge deal. Lunch/dinner somewhere, a AA baseball game, whatever. Get people together and flying.

Make sure there's a way for people to meet and know each other. From the meals to presentations to a local web forum. Make sure they can find other pilots to fly with whether it's just to fly around, $100 Hamburger runs or having a safety pilot for approach practice. Make it easy for them to go flying and have fun doing it. That's probably more important than shaving $5/hr off the rate. If they don't have someone to go with on that $100 Hamburger run they may not go. If they have trouble finding a safety pilot they may not go and may even end up letting it lapse. Help make it easier for them to get out and go flying.

I'll try to answer these as best as I can to explain our situation.
Our target rental audience are obviously locals. Locals that are renting "elsewhere" that I would like at my establishment. I am confident I provide better aircraft, a wider variety and better maintenance and dispatch rates than the other guy. I'd like to see a bit of everything, but ideally I'd like to see a family grab a $100 hamburger, or a couple of pilots who want to go time building together. Ideally day trips that are 1-2 hours away from home base.

Our students range in age from about 20 years old to 60 years old. Male and female(!). I most certainly have some that only call me on payday and some that want to fly eight days a week. Currently, as an instructor I am booked between 5 and 7 days in advance working on average six days a week. I've got four flight blocks a day and on a typical day at least three are filled but sometimes I can't get anyone to fill one of the blocks. I also have a full time job so I do limit myself to four flights a day maximum.


I'm not really "friends" with a lot of pilots on the field. I'm half or maybe even 1/3rd the age of the majority of pilots here... which is one of the reasons I started this. It is incredibly difficult and nearing impossible to gain the trust and respect of a group of people that don't support what you're doing. I have gone to the general aviation meetings and observed EAA meetings and I just can't. Most of those folks don't fly anymore either, so it's just a bunch of people sitting around complaining about how much fuel is these days and how much they hate the tower. They blamed the low attendance at the last "fly-in" (which they didn't market!!) was due to the tower. Makes me sad.

 

[Z06_Mir]

Also, we will have one "unusual" airplane on the line. A 182RG. BUT, as everything is insurance driven so are the rental requirements. A 100hr non-instrument rated private pilot can't rent it without a significant checkout and our premiums are still THOUSANDS a year just for that airplane.

 

[jsstevens]

Also, we will have one "unusual" airplane on the line. A 182RG. BUT, as everything is insurance driven so are the rental requirements. A 100hr non-instrument rated private pilot can't rent it without a significant checkout and our premiums are still THOUSANDS a year just for that airplane.

And I'm sure that drives the absence of them in the rental fleet. It's a double whammy: not everybody can fly it so it doesn't get rented much but the fixed costs are still there.

John

 

[wayne]

Thanks Mir. Mostly I meant the questions mainly as rhetorical, but also if you clarify things we can provide better inputs as well. My education is in business, and your flight school/club is a business.

When I asked about your target audience think of it like this. People have to eat. There are two restaurants in walking distance from my house. One is Jimmy John's (a sandwich chain, similar to Subway). The other is Canoe (a one-off restaurant where there are at least three chef's names on the menu, including the dessert chef). They both serve food. They serve completely different target audiences though.

Talk with Randy (EppyGA on the Purple Board). His EAA chapter is great. He may have some good ideas about getting people involved. Yes, there are a lot of gray/white haired men at the pancake breakfast at that chapter. I'm sure there are those that no longer fly, or fly very little. There are usually more than a half dozen planes that fly in, for a local chapter breakfast. But they also have a very active Young Eagle program and Summer Camp for kids, than includes options for flying as in "stick time". They've also had a local avionics shop and Garmin rep stop by to talk about ADS-B. That was a very well attended program with lots of involvement from the attendees.

You don't even have to host the breakfast/lunch/dinner. You could get students/members together to go fly to it. Instead of a fly-in have a fly-out. The planes get flown, people have fun, they want to come back for more. Maybe that helps students want to finish up, or get their IR. Put together an over night trip to see a baseball game, or whatever. You could tie that to cross country training for PPL or IR. They could take an instructor on the trip. One person could fly out, another could fly back. Lots of options.

Got a slow time of the year/week that works for your schedule, but not so much for students? Offer a discount; remember to state that they can't combine discounts (time and block) or you might not make any money. Maybe that will get them to change their schedule and fill your time.

There was a group in Atlanta that used to put together monthly fly-ins at various locations. It could be brunch at the Jekyll Island Club around Christmas (absolutely huge brunch), or a visit to the Atlanta TRACON, or lunch somewhere. Try to get the word out to pilots in your area that aren't in your club too. They may decide they want to join in and fly your planes or pick another rating.

It doesn't have to be around cheaper, although that does seem to help bring in more business at times. It could just be more options and more fun. I could fly planes that are a lot cheaper than what I'm flying (SR22 & Baron), but they wouldn't give me the same options.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Not that this helps a ton of your issue, Mir, but what's the utilization on the 182RG? Would insurance be significantly different if it were a straight-legged 182 versus the retract?

 

[ChemGuy]

As someone who returned to renting recently I really like the idea to be able to schedule out several weeks first, somehow. Whether that comes from 'premier' status,or maybe even just being a PPL vs student. When I want to go somewhere, trip, flyin etc being able to schedule a few weeks out before all the primary guys can would be a real benefit. I mean huge. All it takes to ruin a trip is one guy lacking the plane up for 1.5 of T&G.
Another way to do this would be to have 1-2 planes for PPL and up only. Guys doing local flights, IR work, etc. Primary students could use if not scheduled say 48hrs out. Again there would be planes available for fly ins, hamburgers, trips etc without being clogged with primary students.

Also some different types of planes, with reasonable minimums for M&M. ie if I'm a 250-300 PP/IR it should only take a few hours instruction (3-5hrs tops) to get signed off in a mooney, deb, 182RG etc. I know a lot of that is insurance but if there is way the CFI doing the eval can say your good and let you rent then that would make me happy.

Where is your FBO? one thing I hate about Xenforo is no location info on the user area of a post. PITA to add input sometimes if you have no clue where the person is based.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Used to rent, now own, and a lot of it was due to the fact I could not use a rental to make business trips when I needed. The schedule was too busy due to training, or on the 182, some charters they did. It was not a good fit for my business to rely working around their business, or the other way.

That really left me with only using their planes for $100 hamburger runs scheduled 14 days in advance. Not a real value proposition.

Things that would get me to rent a bit more would have been discounted/free CFI check outs in other types of planes. They had a 210 on line that would have been nice to use for business,, and if they would have offered me a CFI for free/cheap, I likely would have got checked out and then rented the 210. I wouldn't have wanted a discount on the plane, I assume that is fairly priced. But the owner/CFI, perhaps, should be willing to invest 3 hours of his time to increase revenue and get me flying the more expensive plane.

 

[Z06_Mir]

I'm in the western Midwest.

As far as I'm concerned my scheduling is first come first served. You want a Saturday morning three weeks from now? You got it! You want tomorrow at noon? Probably not going to happen if you're renting one of my primary trainers. The 172 should help with this. I had a guy call last week and get on the schedule for like the very end of April so he knew he had the airplane. Worked for me and I can easily communicate that with other students. If he doesn't have it all day like he plans then I can call a student and see if they want to fly it later.

The 182 insurance may be slightly less if it was a straight leg (but the same hull value) but it would get used less too because that's what we use for commercial and CFI students. I don't worry too much about 182 utilization because I personally own that airplane and lease it back to the flight school I co own. But the insurance to put it on the flight school is almost double what the personal policy was.

 

[Stearman]

#1 is close but the issue is I'm usually not current, which makes it moot.

I like the idea of reduced rates in low-traffic periods.

 

[mrjones30]

I agree with the gimmick thing....I hate them and is smells like one. Just do a Friday night Dawg roast....throw some dogs on the grill and put out some drinks and offer a 30 minute group talk. Maybe work thru the top ten Nall items (pick one a night) and how they can be prevented. Let this develop into a friendship thing for everyone to gather like a happy hour. Cultivate the friendships and a gathering place....and your business will follow without the sales gimmicks.

You really don't want to be in a position to sell on price....but sell on value and get more cause your equipment and services are better.

From a business standpoint if your offerings appear expensive....consider adding a cheap time builder to your line....when able. Maybe add a bare bones Cherokee 140 or C-150?

I agree with this,

Also I would market to the people "who always wanted to fly but never did" and offer a discount for discovery flights. I would market at Sun N Fun and Airventure. Plenty of people that want to be pilots are there.

 

[RalphInCA]

I agree with this,

Also I would market to the people "who always wanted to fly but never did" and offer a discount for discovery flights. I would market at Sun N Fun and Airventure. Plenty of people that want to be pilots are there.

Hmmm. How would you find the people who "always wanted to fly but never did"? Also, for most places, discovery flights are at best a break even proposition. Many times the FBO loses money on these flights.

And marketing at SNF and Airventure wouldn't do much good for a FBO in, say, New Jersey. The few good leads you would get would hardly be worth the price of getting a team there, renting the booth and setting up a display.

 

[Bonchie]

Charge tach.

One of the most annoying things about renting is the rush to get in the air. I'd love to be able to rent and actually sit and program a 430 on the ground for a full IFR flight without spending $30 to do it once you add in the rest of the pre-takeoff.

The plane isn't burning much of any fuel at that point. And you'll make more on high RPM XC flights while having your variable costs drop when someone is in the pattern anyway due to fuel usage. Charging tach also encourages people to not run WOT and to conserve fuel.

Before I moved, I rented from an FBO where the owner was my instructor. After I got my PPL and IFR with him, he gave me a discount on my wet rate, waived the daily minimums if the plane was gonna be sitting anyway (it's a win/win yet so many FBOs are stupid when it comes to this), and even gave me a key to get the plane when they weren't available.

Now, I'm not saying to do that for everyone, but I'm sure you've got some long time customers who are due some good will. And in the end, they'll fly more as a result. Everyone wins.

It's people like that who will put the most hours on your plane if you take care of them. Otherwise, they'll just find a club to join or a partnership. I think if more rental outfits tried to significantly up their volume by operating more like clubs and being more customer friendly, they'd make more in the end due to upping their hours rented significantly.

But so many outfits are content to charge $140+ an hour for a beat up 172 that flies 15 hours a week. It's terrible business sense.

 

[BillTIZ]

Nice Super Cub or Husky available in the $150/HR wet range.

More personal time available to fly?

 

[luvflyin]

......As a renter that travels I love dry rates. Then if I don't hit the daily minimum I'm not paying for fuel I didn't burn. I don't mind paying minimums as I have the plane and others can't fly it, but paying for fuel I don't burn? Grrrrrr. ........

This irks me to. And that I'm paying for hours that don't get the airplane closer to the next 100 hour, or other time driven maintenance costs, that the owner has to have factored into the rental rate.

What I'd like to see is if the minimum daily usage for overnighters is like 3 hours per day, your gone for 3 days (9 hours), you put 6 hours on it, then you have 3 hours credit on account, use it or lose it.