What to do with carbon fiber

bnt83

bnt83

Final Approach
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Brian
I was thinking about building small box that clips onto the glareshield that would hold my phone/ipad whatnot and prevent them from sliding around on top of the instrument panel and into my new windshield.

I could make some interior trims instrument panel overlay with it too, assuming its easy enough to bend & shape as needed. I've never worked with it before so I'm not sure what to expect. Its 2 x 2 twill 5.7 ounce.

 
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You're brave posting this. Someone is gonna see that AirGizmo and tell you it's not an "approved" part :rolleyes:
 
no comment on the proposed box, but we have very similar tastes in radios

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I'd like to start over on those but not in the cards.
 
For a short term and low cost solution... How about non slip shelf liner?

61pvsENe48L._SY355_.jpg
 
I'd like to build a decorative shell for my prosthetic hook with a deep polished clear on it. Would be pretty cool if it was removable and wear it for special occasions. Right now it gets beat up pretty bad so vinyl wraps only lasts so long and they suck to re-apply all the time.




Shiny carbon fabric
:D

 
I saw a number of Mooneys with those gizmos. I rejected them out of hand. No way do I want a handheld in my panel.
 
Why not just *not* put your stuff on the glareshield where it can fly around?
 
steingar said:
I saw a number of Mooneys with those gizmos. I rejected them out of hand. No way do I want a handheld in my panel.
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good point, no way should something be firmly mounted. Far better to use some flaky suction cup and have it be a potential projectile.
 
steingar said:
I saw a number of Mooneys with those gizmos. I rejected them out of hand. No way do I want a handheld in my panel.
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I sincerely hope you never win an AOPA makeover airplane, after all, they have those gizmos.

If you don't know what it is, you may need an eye exam.

 
I don't need an education on certifications in this forum, I've studied part 25 certifications for 40 hours a week for about the last three years.
 
bnt83 said:
I'd like to build a decorative shell for my prosthetic hook with a deep polished clear on it. Would be pretty cool if it was removable and wear it for special occasions. Right now it gets beat up pretty bad so vinyl wraps only lasts so long and they suck to re-apply all the time.
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My neice's has a gel coat on it, like on a fiberglass boat but not heavy like fiberglass. It's held up very well. BTW she's the little girl with a prosthetic arm that you see playing the cello in the shriner's hospital commercials. She wears the prosthesis to play music but can't be bothered with it for everyday activities.
 
JHW said:
My neice's has a gel coat on it, like on a fiberglass boat but not heavy like fiberglass. It's held up very well. BTW she's the little girl with a prosthetic arm that you see playing the cello in the shriner's hospital commercials. She wears the prosthesis to play music but can't be bothered with it for everyday activities.
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Weight wouldn't bother me since I'm amputated at the wrist. Congenital birth defect patients typically have very short stumps making weight a concern.
 
bnt83 said:
I was thinking about building small box that clips onto the glareshield that would hold my phone/ipad whatnot and prevent them from sliding around on top of the instrument panel and into my new windshield.

I could make some interior trims instrument panel overlay with it too, assuming its easy enough to bend & shape as needed. I've never worked with it before so I'm not sure what to expect. Its 2 x 2 twill 5.7 ounce.

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Will be about the same as working with fiberglass of the same weave and weight.

Well I should add it will be harder to see air voids in it.

Brian
 
brcase said:
Will be about the same as working with fiberglass of the same weave and weight.

Well I should add it will be harder to see air voids in it.

Brian
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I think I should have gotten some black pigment too.
 
JHW said:
good point, no way should something be firmly mounted. Far better to use some flaky suction cup and have it be a potential projectile.
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Yeah, I want to lock my airplane into the current generation of handheld instead of being able to inexpensively upgrade when better comes out.

And anyone who thinks you need one of those gizmos to secure a handheld obviously hasn't owned an airplane very long.
 
steingar said:
Yeah, I want to lock my airplane into the current generation of handheld instead of being able to inexpensively upgrade when better comes out.

And anyone who thinks you need one of those gizmos to secure a handheld obviously hasn't owned an airplane very long.
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Ok I see the issue. I'm not "locked in" because I own a device called a "screwdriver". You can get them at most hardware stores.
 
bnt83 said:
I'd like to build a decorative shell for my prosthetic hook with a deep polished clear on it. Would be pretty cool if it was removable and wear it for special occasions. Right now it gets beat up pretty bad so vinyl wraps only lasts so long and they suck to re-apply all the time.




Shiny carbon fabric
:D

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You can get that vinyl wrap powder coated with a clear finish.
 
Is that an iPad in the center of the debonair panel?
 
Cessna wing roots have plenty of storage space. You just need to utilize it. I have wing root storage on both sides and three glove boxes in the panel. I absolutely love it.

cessna%252520interior%2525203.jpg
 
bnt83 said:
I was thinking about building small box ...
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Why carbon fiber? It won't save you any weight and is harder to work with than conventional glass. If the answer is "Just for the fun of it!" that's very acceptable though. I do stuff like that all the time.

Anyone doing small-project glass should know about these guys: http://iasco-tesco.com/catalog/ It's a goofy little company that has been supplying high school industrial arts teachers for years. They have all kinds of fabrics, resins, and tools and are quite happy to take and ship small orders. I used to buy there a lot when I was racing because unlike boat shops they had some of the more specialized stuff like unidirectional cloth. I also like their PVA in Alcohol mold release.
 
JHW said:
good point, no way should something be firmly mounted. Far better to use some flaky suction cup and have it be a potential projectile.
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The issue is that portables are essentially disposable and <generally> have a short useful life compared to panel mount stuff. I don't want to lock in (with panel mods and 337's) something that I'm going to want to replace in 5 years.
 
kyleb said:
The issue is that portables are essentially disposable and <generally> have a short useful life compared to panel mount stuff. I don't want to lock in (with panel mods and 337's) something that I'm going to want to replace in 5 years.
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that's all well and good, but there aren't any panel mods, it screws into the existing rails. And attaching a piece of plastic is hardly a major modification, a 1-liner logbook entry will suffice. It's a bit like saying you don't want to install new tires and get "locked into them" when they'll just wear out again in a few years.
 
I work with carbon fiber on a fairly regular basis. It's pretty easy to work with, and it looks great whan it is cured. The only difficulties I have working with it is that the stuff I use is stiffer than fiberglass, so it has trouble turning sharp corners. The only other problem is that if you are used to working with fiberglass or Kevlar it's easy to get "carried away" when you sand it. The carbon is "softer" than you might be used to and you can sand it away faster than glass.

What I'd suggest you do is make a form for your box. You can make it out of almost anything. Styrofoam works fairly well. Then cover your form with a release agent - I have vacuum bag material that I use, then lay it up. I've never used it with carbon, but I don't know why you couldn't use the fiberglass resin they use to repair boats or cars. After the product hardens, remove your form. With styrofoam you can just pour a little gasoline on it and the form "melts" away.
 
KRyan said:
... Styrofoam works fairly well. Then cover your form with a release agent - I have vacuum bag material that I use, then lay it up. I've never used it with carbon, but I don't know why you couldn't use the fiberglass resin they use to repair boats or cars. After the product hardens, remove your form. With styrofoam you can just pour a little gasoline on it and the form "melts" away.
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Polyester resin eats styrofoam. You can use urethane foam with polyester resin or you can use epoxy resin with styrofoam. But not polyester with styrofoam. Most of what you see sold for boats and cars is polyester.

I learned this the hard way a number of years ago when I made a geodesic dome insulated dog house for our German Shepherd. 2" polystyrene foam walls, 3" floor, even with a couple of acrylic windows. Polyester resin. It was a b1tc3 to make because I had to reach inside through the door to glass the inside. After many hours the thing was finished and looked great. The next morning it had collapsed and looked like a sleeping bag. Grrr ...

For small projects the extra cost of epoxy is negligible and you avoid the stink of the polyester.
 
KRyan said:
I work with carbon fiber on a fairly regular basis. It's pretty easy to work with, and it looks great whan it is cured. The only difficulties I have working with it is that the stuff I use is stiffer than fiberglass, so it has trouble turning sharp corners. The only other problem is that if you are used to working with fiberglass or Kevlar it's easy to get "carried away" when you sand it. The carbon is "softer" than you might be used to and you can sand it away faster than glass.

What I'd suggest you do is make a form for your box. You can make it out of almost anything. Styrofoam works fairly well. Then cover your form with a release agent - I have vacuum bag material that I use, then lay it up. I've never used it with carbon, but I don't know why you couldn't use the fiberglass resin they use to repair boats or cars. After the product hardens, remove your form. With styrofoam you can just pour a little gasoline on it and the form "melts" away.
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I've got pretty much everything from PVA, Chavant clay to micro, carbosil. I'd be using west epoxy resin. I also have a bit of 1" thick pink insulation foam board from Home Depot. I'm debating about making a switch housing from the foam board, micro slurry and PVA with 4 plies of 4 ounce glass.
 
JHW said:
that's all well and good, but there aren't any panel mods, it screws into the existing rails. And attaching a piece of plastic is hardly a major modification, a 1-liner logbook entry will suffice. It's a bit like saying you don't want to install new tires and get "locked into them" when they'll just wear out again in a few years.
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They are very easy to replace
 
airdale said:
Polyester resin eats styrofoam. You can use urethane foam with polyester resin or you can use epoxy resin with styrofoam. But not polyester with styrofoam. Most of what you see sold for boats and cars is polyester.
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Didn't know that. Too bad you had to find out the hard way!
 
First ever attempt at carbon is underway.

This is a brand new plastic glareshield that I wasn't too happy about the seam on the aft most edge (pic #2) so I figured a carbon trim with a clear coat would be perfect to hide it.

Two plies of 2 x 2 twill @ 5.8 ounce seemed adequately strong yet flexible enough to slip off the glareshield.

Wet before sanding & trimming



After lots of sanding (still not done)
 
The first one I made came out really cloudy looking requiring sanding all the way down to carbon over the whole thing. It looks ok with some more clear resin smeared on it but not what I had in mind. the tops of the weave are sanded flat and its kinda dull looking, even under the clear. With that failure in mind I adjusted the wet-out technique and eliminated using brushes altogether, got the heat lamps out and warmed the resin and squeegeed it on. It came out crystal clear with a few tiny bubbles so now working on sanding/filling/sanding to get the weave completely covered with smooth epoxy.

I wonder if a vacuum chamber would help get the pot bubble-free. Despite my careful mixing and warming I still get too much air in the resin. In a dark hangar its hard to see the buggers especially after the resin is laid on the dark carbon fiber. I would also use a vacuum chamber to degas silicones so it might be worth having one anyway.

Eventually I plan on taking all these lessons learned about molding and put it towards building my own prosthetics.
 
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bnt83 said:
The first one I made came out really cloudy looking requiring sanding all the way down to carbon over the whole thing. It looks ok with some more clear resin smeared on it but not what I had in mind. ...
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Congrats on your efforts. So many people are afraid of things like this, choosing instead to remain helpless.

First, re bubbles. Probably you can solve this by thinning the resin. Check with the manufacturer or the ever-reliable internet to find suitable thinners or even a thinner resin. If you thin it, test a small batch to ensure that it cures acceptably.

Now, the main event: I think you are making your box by glassing over a form, then looking to get a nice finish on the outside. IMO this is pretty much doomed to failure.

The way to do this is to make a "plug" -- an as-perfect-as-possible replica of the part you want to make. Use/combine whatever materials work; wood, foam, bondo, ... It doesn't matter. Then apply mold release to the plug and glass it as you have been doing. After your piece has cured, pull the plug, destroying it if necessary. The glass piece you now have is the raw mold for the part you want to make. Give it a perfect finish (on the inside!), filling all voids and irregularities, apply mold release. Now spray (brush is distant second choice) a coat of clear gel-coat and let that set, finally laying your carbon cloth and resin in and letting it cure. Now pull the part and trim as necessary.

That is a super-abbreviated description. If you want more details I would be happy to type some more but I am too lazy if you are uninterested. Let me know.
 
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airdale said:
Congrats on your efforts. So many people are afraid of things like this, choosing instead to remain helpless.

First, re bubbles. Probably you can solve this by thinning the resin. Check with the manufacturer or the ever-reliable internet to find suitable thinners or even a thinner resin. If you thin it, test a small batch to ensure that it cures acceptably.

Now, the main event: I think you are making your box by glassing over a form, then looking to get a nice finish on the outside. IMO this is pretty much doomed to failure.

The way to do this is to make a "plug" -- an as-perfect-as-possible replica of the part you want to make. Use/combine whatever materials work; wood, foam, bondo, ... It doesn't matter. Then apply mold release to the plug and glass it as you have been doing. After your piece has cured, pull the plug, destroying it if necessary. The glass piece you now have is the raw mold for the part you want to make. Give it a perfect finish (on the inside!), filling all voids and irregularities, apply mold release. Now spray (brush is distant second choice) a coat of clear gel-coat and let that set, finally laying your carbon cloth and resin in and letting it cure. Now pull the part and trim as necessary.

That is a super-abbreviated description. If you want more details I would be happy to type some more but I am too lazy if you are uninterested. Let me know.
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I figured a spray automotive type clear is a must for UV protection.
 
bnt83 said:
[snip]It came out crystal clear with a few tiny bubbles so now working on sanding/filling/sanding to get the weave completely covered with smooth epoxy.[snip]
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I worked in a cypress wood clock factory many years ago. We coated the clock faces with a clear epoxy 2 part resin. To eliminate bubbles we sprayed the surface with denatured alcohol. It lowered the surface tension enough for the bubbles to just float up, pop and the surface resin flowed into the holes. We got mirror smooth surfaces that way. I don't know what kind of solvent you could use on the resin you're using, but it's an idea.

John
 
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