What to do after PPL/how to save money or fly for free??

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Dmar64, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Dmar64

    Dmar64 Filing Flight Plan

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    Hello all, I have just recently received my private pilots license. I want to stay current and continue to get more flying hours, but I ran into a problem. The problem is everything is so expensive!! I want to know how I can fly for free :) someone recommend the civil air patrol. I don’t know much about it and would appreciate any information on it. Another person stated that I could hook up with an organization that flys children to hospitals and it’s a good way to save money and build up hours. I’m not sure but was looking for some advice on how to stay current with my PPL in the least expensive way possible. I am 28 years old and live in the area of Hartford, Connecticut and I make an average income. Thanks again for the advice look foward to hearing everyones advice.
     
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  2. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    CAP is an option, if you’re the right person for it. You will go through more red tape than you can imagine for the chance to fly. If a disaster comes along that requires them to fly and you can take off work for the mission you might log some hours. In Texas, after the spring rains, we always get an opportunity to fly photo missions.

    CAP is much more about giving back to the community than it is about free flying.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  3. DutchRoller

    DutchRoller Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Before you are eligible for "free" flying with the CAP, you will need to gain more experience. They require a certain number of hours which includes a certain number of cross country hours if I recall correctly. Then you will need to prove yourself to their check pilots and this is done on your dime. Once you get all that done, you might be able to log a bit of time for free.
     
  4. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    CAP requires experience. Angel Flight and similar organizations require experience and, some, instrument ratings. And you don't fly for free with them; best scenario is a tax deduction; with some, fuel reimbursement with even more experience.

    I've know folks who have acted as Angel Flight co-pilots with an owner-pilot who was nice enough to give them a little stick time.

    There's the 91.113 reimbursement possibility. Your employer or personal business can reimburse you for your costs if you travel on business, so long as yo don't bring other employees. But most won't do that because of liability and workers compensation insurance concerns.

    But, other than those few, I can't think of any offhand which would not be a 61.113 violation.
     
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  5. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    Saving money and flying.... doesn’t go together unfortunately
     
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  6. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    The only way I know to fly and not pay for it is to do it as a profession. Military or civilian.
    Get going. ;)
     
  7. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    oxymoron
     
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  8. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Barring specific goals like multiengine or instrument time, buy a cheap, low-powered single-seater or 2-seater and fly the crap out of it.
     
  9. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Cleared for Takeoff

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    B3E2A6EB-25CE-4560-B835-FC803FAF5B6A.jpeg
    Been posted before. But pertinent now. I would look to a club locally that will help offset the cost perhaps. For CAP you need patience. A lot of it.
     
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  10. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 Pattern Altitude

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    PC simulator.


    Tom
     
  11. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    FAR 91.321?
     
  12. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Line Up and Wait

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    Save every penny to go fly? That's kinda the only way I get to fly my plane. Old car, rent a 1 bedroom, learnt to do my own car maint, don't eat out, if it's yellow let it mellow....that's how I do it.
     
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  13. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    Nope. This is from a 1980 Chief Counsel interpretation (91.321 unsed to be numbered 91.59):

    In response to your memorandum of September 29, 1980, concerning Section 91.59 and private pilots, a private pilot cannot accept payment for the transportation of a federal candidate under Section 91.59 of the FAR. Section 91.59 allows an aircraft operator to receive payment for the carriage of a federal candidate only if such payment is required by regulations of the F.E.C. The pertinent F.E.C. regulations apply only to airplanes which are owned or leased by corporations or labor organizations. Therefore, unless the aircraft used to transport a federal candidate is owned by a corporation or labor organization, payment cannot be accepted by the operator pursuant to Section 91.59.​
     
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  14. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    The cheapest way I know to fly is with a Cessna 140 or 150. Buy one with a mid time engine with enough panel to do an instrument checkride. Fly it through instrument and commercial if you can find a complex to rent for ten hours of dual. Get your ratings and time, then get most of your purchase price back.
     
  15. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    I'll take your word for it, but the cited paragraph, as quoted, sounds rather confusing. For example, a PPL buys an airplane, puts it in an LLC, leases it to a corporation or labor organization and then flies a candidate then it sounds like it is OK.

    Also, the current 91.321 also cites state and local campaign regs, not just federal.
     
  16. alfadog

    alfadog En-Route

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    Fly free? Good luck. These sort of things show up on bulletin boards at smaller airports and in FBO's. Ask around.

    IMG_20180928_081734383.jpg IMG_20180928_081643328.jpg
     
  17. Old97

    Old97 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Glider clubs need tow pilots - if you meet their minimums. The ones near me i think require 250 or 300 hours? Plus some tailwheel.
     
  18. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The quip within the organization is that CAP stands for "come and pay"!
     
  19. Dana

    Dana Line Up and Wait

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    Cheapest way to fly is usually an used homebuilt or ultralight. Homebuilts on the lower end of the performance range, think J-3 Cub performance, can be dirt cheap (under $10K) and cheap to maintain if you're mechanically inclined.
     
  20. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

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    Safety Pilot. You won't get PIC time. And you'll basically be watching someone else fly. But you'll be up in the plane learning, etc. Lots of pilots need 20hrs of hood time / practice for IR. Heck, some might need it bad enough to pay you :)
     
  21. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    No pay, per 91.113,lol but still a good way to fly. Nevertheless, acting as a safety pilot is a good way to log flight time for free. You COULD log PIC time if the other pilot agrees to allow you to act as PIC while he or she is under the hood. If not, it may be logged as SIC time. The important thing is to get to know the pilot you're flying with and make sure you're on the same page regarding all issues of safety.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  22. DutchRoller

    DutchRoller Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Yep. Heard that a few times.
     
  23. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    Yep, and don’t worry about the plane being slow. You log hours not miles and the slow planes cost less to operate per hour.
     
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  24. JCranford

    JCranford Pattern Altitude

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    Wasn’t the cost of getting your PPL some sorta clue that flying was expensive? I think we would all like to fly for free but there’s just not that many opportunities for that.
     
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  25. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    Yep, it’s certainly not the least expensive pastime I ever been involved in.
     
  26. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I assume you meant "If not, it may be logged as SIC time."
     
  27. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    There's a reason why I drive a fifteen-year-old car.
     
  28. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Planes often aren’t secured very well, and they can be hot wired pretty easily. *


    *this is a joke. I’m not actually suggesting someone steal an aircraft
     
  29. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    Yep, for what you pay for a new car, you can buy a plane of some description. If cared for properly your old car can be used for years. Today’s cars are incredibly durable and long lived. Put off buying that new ride and put the money in an airplane instead. I have several vehicles and the newest is a 2006 model in great condition. I wouldn’t hesitate to go on a long trip in any of them. Your budget is about priorities. Where you can mess that up is denying your families needs to feed an aviation habit. Other than that, budget and spend your money wisely.
     
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  30. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I bought a house out of the city which reduced my mortgage, tax, and insurance costs. I bought the house in an airport community so that I could write off the interest on a hangar as part of my mortgage. I made sure to meet and make friends with multiple IAs that live on the property that will allow me to do a lot of work with their oversight, lowering my maintenance costs dramatically. I bought a cheap plane with a runout engine from someone local after flying with them in it quite a lot so I knew the quality of the plane well.

    And even going to these lengths, it’s not “free” or even “cheap”.
     
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  31. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    I am glad you put the disclaimer and saved a trip to FSDO
     
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  32. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    Not free, but you could check into working line at an FBO/Flight School. Many give their employees a generous discount.
     
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  33. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    Whoops. Editing...
     
  34. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Line Up and Wait

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    A club is not a bad start... My club is 12 ppl, a 1975 Cessna 172 with PennYann 180hp conversion. Buy in is only around $3,000 when a share comes up, dues are $60 a month and we rent it from ourselves for $85/wet tach hour. If you have been renting a tach hour tends to be longer than a Hobbs hour too... I have had this club share about 10 years and recently bought a Cessna 140 of my own... For under $25,000 I have two airplanes for all practicality! One that drinks 5 gallons of hour and is as basic as they come for building time, having fun, chasing burgers, thats 3 miles from home, and another that is a true 4 person IFR aircraft thats a 15 minute flight in the 140 to go get when need be...

    I'm with MBDiagman and Eric Stoltz, I myself am not as high up yet the socioeconomic scale as I would like but by living in a house I bought on foreclosure and fixed up myself, driving an 04 and 06 that I maintain myself, I am able to afford to fly. Get creative and it can happen...
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  35. LoneAspen

    LoneAspen Line Up and Wait

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    One of these days, but not until AFTER my checkride, I'm going to total up all the invoices for my flight training. I'll make sure and be sitting down when I do it.
     
  36. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    For me, it's twenty-seven years later, and I'm still afraid to do this! :hairraise:
     
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  37. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Line Up and Wait

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    Unless you are going for a career in it- Aviation will never ever make financial sense on paper. I would shred those receipts! Lol.
     
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  38. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    You make a good point and don't take my word for it.

    The other half of the equation is that the exceptions in 61.113 do not include 91.321. 91.321 is one of several exceptions to the general requirement for an operating certificate (i.e., Part 135) when carrying persons and property for compensation or hire. You can see 91.321 cross-referenced in 119.1. It is an exception to the requirement for a commercial operating certificate, not an exception to the requirement for a commercial pilot certificate.
     
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  39. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    Aha! That makes much more sense than the quoted paragraph from the chief counsel letter. Thanks.
     
  40. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    Do it after inflation has taken its toll. For example, I've heard some of the old timers say that their training was $10/hr plane+instructor for a grand total of $500.