What should I do?

Gastons had a tick festival last weekend that coincided with the POA fly-in, so I bought an industrial-strength can of spray for myself and those who found them crawling in places that were inappropriate. I successfully fended them off with only a gallon or so of DEET, but one chigger snuck by and nailed me. Fortunately we keep on hand one of those little pens that zap the little bastards.

bartmc said:
I won't even tell you where my latest chigger bite is... I HATE those things and I wouldn't recommend going into any field of work that requires any risk of coming into contact with them.
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wabower said:
The job markets are very cyclical. What's hot now can be deader than a smelt in 5 years. T
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The job market for engineers has been solid for > 40 years. A good engineer in EE, ME, AE, ChE will always be able to find work at decent pay. A crappy engineer will still be able to find work but at lesser pay grades.

It's like nursing, but way better pay. You can always find work as a nurse, no matter the state or country.

Agreed that engineering is not for everyone. But - if you like it, and have an aptitude, it will provide a very nice income. Strangely enough good sales people are always in demand. Someone who can move product has a job in almost any market conditions.
 
I thought David was already a CFI, then I realized I was somehow confusing him with Jesse. :D

I vote to sell the Mooney, buy an RV or flybaby to have fun in, take the extra cash and that potential $10k/ year mooney mx and invest in your independence. You've got no better tool to grow your net worth than time via an investment account. As someone else already mentioned, thanks to the wonders of compound interest, you can start investing now and you'll be cozy by the time you decide you want to start being a grown up. In the mean time, work out the career stuff, enjoy your job and free time and make good use of the resources you have access to. Ask Dad to "partner" in the RV purchase, I think you both would feel better about the personal growth you'll get out of the experience.
 
DavidWhite said:
Well if I was accepted to a college (that would be the hard part) my parents would have no trouble or reservations about sending me there. My dad wants me to sell the mooney, invest the dollars, and buy a cheaper plane more suited to my mission. (Which is now just to have fun, not go places)
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Are you having difficulty with your matriculation? This comes as a bit of a surprise, I am certain you could easily ace any of the entrance exams. I'm afraid I agree with the other posters. An engineering degree, of which I am certain you are quite capable, would serve you in far greater stead than an aircraft.

Perhaps surveying is a big money easily entered field. I know nothing at all about it. But if it is, I doubt it will stay that way for long. Always more people who want to do the job for less. You should go to school. Especially since they keep young women there.
 
Not saying it is the right thing to do, but if you want to go to college you will be a shoe-in in another year. The competitive admissions nonsense only applies to HS seniors and 30 top schools. Couple of years in the wild, doing things no one else in their school has ever done and 99% of colleges will let you in as soon as the check clears. Warning after a couple of years in the wild putting up with petty college BS is really friggin hard.
DavidWhite said:
Well if I was accepted to a college (that would be the hard part) my parents would have no trouble or reservations about sending me there. My dad wants me to sell the mooney, invest the dollars, and buy a cheaper plane more suited to my mission. (Which is now just to have fun, not go places)
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DavidWhite said:
Well if I was accepted to a college (that would be the hard part) my parents would have no trouble or reservations about sending me there. My dad wants me to sell the mooney, invest the dollars, and buy a cheaper plane more suited to my mission. (Which is now just to have fun, not go places)
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Right now your mission as a teenager is to have fun and there's nothing wrong with that. I tell my kids to evaluate money decisions by looking at their situation from the standpoint of all resources being gone tomorrow. Take away your dad's help as a safety net. Is it still a tough choice to make?

The Mooney's going to continue to cost you if you keep it...for fun. Sell it, follow your dad's advice and invest the money. If you decide to pursue Engineering, an Engineering degree, while not a guaranteed meal ticket will give you more options in the future. I've read several posts on POA about Pilots who, after getting married and having children, decided to take a different career path. Personally, I wasn't sure what I'd spend my life doing at your age.

So, you can decide on your career path while establishing your net worth through a passive income stream or you can continue to pay out money for Mooney maintenance with the only return being "fun". The choice is yours.
 
A number of other fields offer a shot at the corner office, and the good sales guys always seemed to invited to the big conventions at fancy resorts with good golf courses. I don't know where the engineers got to go.

docmirror said:
The job market for engineers has been solid for > 40 years. A good engineer in EE, ME, AE, ChE will always be able to find work at decent pay. A crappy engineer will still be able to find work but at lesser pay grades.

It's like nursing, but way better pay. You can always find work as a nurse, no matter the state or country.

Agreed that engineering is not for everyone. But - if you like it, and have an aptitude, it will provide a very nice income. Strangely enough good sales people are always in demand. Someone who can move product has a job in almost any market conditions.
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My CPA tells the story of a construction company owner/client whose goal was to have $1,000 of interest income per day, or $365k/yr. A few years ago he achieved that goal, and now has even more invested but the yield has dropped to less than $80k/yr.

KeithASanford said:
I thought David was already a CFI, then I realized I was somehow confusing him with Jesse. :D

I vote to sell the Mooney, buy an RV or flybaby to have fun in, take the extra cash and that potential $10k/ year mooney mx and invest in your independence. You've got no better tool to grow your net worth than time via an investment account. As someone else already mentioned, thanks to the wonders of compound interest, you can start investing now and you'll be cozy by the time you decide you want to start being a grown up. In the mean time, work out the career stuff, enjoy your job and free time and make good use of the resources you have access to. Ask Dad to "partner" in the RV purchase, I think you both would feel better about the personal growth you'll get out of the experience.
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wabower said:
My CPA tells the story of a construction company owner/client whose goal was to have $1,000 of interest income per day, or $365k/yr. A few years ago he achieved that goal, and now has even more invested but the yield has dropped to less than $80k/yr.
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Thank the Fed. He should have bought bonds I guess. There's also dividend ETFs now.

He must have 6-7 million. Hope it's not all in one bank.
 
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Is David even interested in engineering? Seems like some are shoving the idea down his throat.
 
As an aerospace engineer who loves my job, I would caution anyone going to engineering school just because of the job/salary prospects after graduating. Only do it if being an engineer is something you really want to do. You will be much more successful in life working in a career you are passionate about than choosing a job based solely on salary.

If you look at high paying careers (attorneys, airline pilots, financial sector etc.) you'll find some people who hate their job, but went into the field because of the money and now they can't leave -- because of the money. Life is too short to work at a job you hate.
 
When you get that much, will it all be in one place?

dmspilot said:
Thank the Fed. He should have bought bonds I guess. There's also dividend ETFs now.

He must have 6-7 million. Hope it's not all in one bank.
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dmspilot said:
Is David even interested in engineering? Seems like some are shoving the idea down his throat.
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My advice applies to whatever he decides to pursue. I saw Engineering in several posts...I went with Engineering. I think it's more important for him to take his Dad's advice about investing that money and starting the process of his money working for him early.
 
wabower said:
My CPA tells the story of a construction company owner/client whose goal was to have $1,000 of interest income per day, or $365k/yr. A few years ago he achieved that goal, and now has even more invested but the yield has dropped to less than $80k/yr.
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It's not Ronco..you can't set it and forget it.
 
wabower said:
When you get that much, will it all be in one place?
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Do you have to respond to every post with a question?

With an 80% drop in yield, which corresponds to the reduction in interest rates by the Fed over the past several years, I deduced that the person in question had his money in savings/MMA account(s). As I said, hopefully more than one. If my deduction was incorrect then forgive me.
 
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So you really think a guy with $8MM cash equivalents doesn't understand FDIC and other agency protection limits? Really?

dmspilot said:
Do you have to respond to every post with a question?

With an 80% drop in yield, which corresponds to the reduction in interest rates by the Fed over the past several years, I deduced that the person in question had his money in savings/MMA account(s). As I said, hopefully more than one. If my deduction was incorrect then forgive me.
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ColoPilot said:
As an aerospace engineer who loves my job, I would caution anyone going to engineering school just because of the job/salary prospects after graduating. Only do it if being an engineer is something you really want to do. You will be much more successful in life working in a career you are passionate about than choosing a job based solely on salary.

If you look at high paying careers (attorneys, airline pilots, financial sector etc.) you'll find some people who hate their job, but went into the field because of the money and now they can't leave -- because of the money. Life is too short to work at a job you hate.
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Agreed x100. In my case the entering argument was the "backup value" of the degree. False economy. The backup value of a vocation you hate is zero. I got two degrees in aerospace engineering and I HATED the work environment. I wouldn't last a week behind a CATIA/MATHCAD/MATLAB terminal wasting away my eyesight 8-10 hours a day followed by sedentary meetings ad nauseam. And the jacked up thing is that, privately, I probably knew that starting out. I did very well in school (full ride and work agreement to grad school) and the general theories of propulsion, aerodynamics and dynamic structures were generically interesting, since it dealt with flying (that was the hook, in hindsight).... but I didn't enjoy banging my head against the wall all weekend over integrals, equations of motion and computer subroutine writing for 7 years. It was a de facto CS major in the end to be frank. It made me hate life. That should have been my hint I wouldn't have enjoyed the workplace, making the backup value of those degrees a non-starter for me.

It's just a tough situation for people who love flying. Flying in aggregate doesn't pay jack because most people are willing to do it for peanuts. Not having any other interest that would yield a lucrative living renders most aviation enthusiasts into a starving artist piegonhole: make money and hate life, or love what you do and make no money.. and hate life as a consequence.

I too thought offering the OP the advice of pursuing a non-aviation degree with salary prospects (like engineering), but after being reminded of my own aversion towards my formal education I can't in good conscience tell him to pursue the "go for the money" angle. The messed up thing is, I can't offer him the "pursue your passion with abandon" starving part 91/135/121 pylet angle either. I'm at a loss. Find something you tolerate and makes enough money and time off to do what makes you happy I suppose. In my case, the military was always my private true motivator and that's where I ended up gravitating towards; I was literally driving around the country interviewing for entry level CFI positions during the last few months prior to the completion of my Master's Degree in Aero Eng while I waited to get in somewhere in the Guard/Reserves. My parents about disowned me lol.

Again, you're right, life's too short to hate something for a living.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Agreed x100. In my case the entering argument was the "backup value" of the degree. False economy. The backup value of a vocation you hate is zero. I got two degrees in aerospace engineering and I HATED the work environment. I wouldn't last a week behind a CATIA/MATHCAD/MATLAB terminal wasting away my eyesight 8-10 hours a day followed by sedentary meetings ad nauseam. And the jacked up thing is that, privately, I probably knew that starting out. I did very well in school (full ride and work agreement to grad school) and the general theories of propulsion, aerodynamics and dynamic structures were generically interesting, since it dealt with flying (that was the hook, in hindsight).... but I didn't enjoy banging my head against the wall all weekend over integrals, equations of motion and computer subroutine writing for 7 years. It was a de facto CS major in the end to be frank. It made me hate life. That should have been my hint I wouldn't have enjoyed the workplace, making the backup value of those degrees a non-starter for me.

It's just a tough situation for people who love flying. Flying in aggregate doesn't pay jack because most people are willing to do it for peanuts. Not having any other interest that would yield a lucrative living renders most aviation enthusiasts into a starving artist piegonhole: make money and hate life, or love what you do and make no money.. and hate life as a consequence.

I too thought offering the OP the advice of pursuing a non-aviation degree with salary prospects (like engineering), but after being reminded of my own aversion towards my formal education I can't in good conscience tell him to pursue the "go for the money" angle. The messed up thing is, I can't offer him the "pursue your passion with abandon" starving part 91/135/121 pylet angle either. I'm at a loss. Find something you tolerate and makes enough money and time off to do what makes you happy I suppose. In my case, the military was always my private true motivator and that's where I ended up gravitating towards; I was literally driving around the country interviewing for entry level CFI positions during the last few months prior to the completion of my Master's Degree in Aero Eng while I waited to get in somewhere in the Guard/Reserves. My parents about disowned me lol.

Again, you're right, life's too short to hate something for a living.
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Great post and it made me chuckle, since the exact things you hated about engineering (equations of motion, Matlab, software coding) are what I do and enjoy. :)
 
wabower said:
So you really think a guy with $8MM cash equivalents doesn't understand FDIC and other agency protection limits? Really?
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This person isn't smart enough to purchase a real investment, so why not? I can assure you there ARE people with >$1m in individual ordinary bank accounts.
 
During both audit and management services engagements I found that the engineers who liked their chosen profession were most unhappy when their excellent job performance caused them to be promoted to management positions that they hated.

One MIT grad at a Woodward-Clyde Soils Consulting office said he didn't get a specialized graduate degree to spend his days on HR, OSHA, office budgets and negotiating with the Ford dealer for a new fleet of pickups.
ColoPilot said:
Great post and it made me chuckle, since the exact things you hated about engineering (equations of motion, Matlab, software coding) are what I do and enjoy. :)
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wabower said:
During both audit and management services engagements I found that the engineers who liked their chosen profession were most unhappy when their excellent job performance caused them to be promoted to management positions that they hated.
.
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After getting my MBA, about four companies ago, I got promoted into mgmt. It was middle management and my starry-eyed theory of moving millions around for a company, and deciding which juicy target to acquire next became the reality of angry Forbes 50 customer VPs screaming in my phone.

I moved to the financial side, and it was even worse. Any small successes I had was crowed about by upper mgmt which took full responsibility for the gains. A few of the failures I had were all my responsibility, and came with sharp rebukes. It was as if they wanted only no-risk, hi-yield solutions, and you had to have a 99% success rate. I lasted about three months and went back to my old job, with a bump in salary, and no hassles except which network I was going to bring down today.
 
Roger that. About 20 years ago I decided that a low-profile,wholly-owned, no-employee, project-specific consulting practice specializing in high-ticket items would be a perfect fit. And now I are one.

docmirror said:
After getting my MBA, about four companies ago, I got promoted into mgmt. It was middle management and my starry-eyed theory of moving millions around for a company, and deciding which juicy target to acquire next became the reality of angry Forbes 50 customer VPs screaming in my phone.

I moved to the financial side, and it was even worse. Any small successes I had was crowed about by upper mgmt which took full responsibility for the gains. A few of the failures I had were all my responsibility, and came with sharp rebukes. It was as if they wanted only no-risk, hi-yield solutions, and you had to have a 99% success rate. I lasted about three months and went back to my old job, with a bump in salary, and no hassles except which network I was going to bring down today.
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wabower said:
I found that the engineers who liked their chosen profession were most unhappy when their excellent job performance caused them to be promoted to management positions that they hated.
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I've heard this from a fair number of pilots too, both military pilots who get senior enough to be promoted into management positions which they dislike, and civilian pilots who try out management positions but after a few years go back to being line pilots.
 
Yep, and it happens with business owners more than you might think. The most recent example from here is a friend who built a very successful pest control company over 12 years. About four years ago he started complaining (more than usual) about his dislike for the admin and management responsibilities he had created for himself when all he really liked to do was sell the services.

A year ago he sold out to a consolidator and stayed on as the head sales guy. He enjoys the work, plays more golf and spends more time with his grandkids.
He says the only thing he hasn't liked so far is the big check he wrote to the IRS from the sales proceeds. I think it's funny that his fancy new Lincoln has the little commercial vehicle registration decal below the front door.


Everskyward said:
I've heard this from a fair number of pilots too, both military pilots who get senior enough to be promoted into management positions which they dislike, and civilian pilots who try out management positions but after a few years go back to being line pilots.
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wabower said:
Roger that. About 20 years ago I decided that a low-profile,wholly-owned, no-employee, project-specific consulting practice specializing in high-ticket items would be a perfect fit. And now I are one.
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I know it's none of my business and it's probably rude to ask, but based on your description of what you do, I'm dying to know what exactly it is...Forgive me if I'm overstepping, but if I'm not, by all means, please spill. :popcorn:
 
It's not a secret, I just don't mention it on GA forums. I'm here because I own, fly and occasionally instruct in little planes, not to generate business.

My day job (even though I only work about half of them) is a consulting business that is heavily oriented to general aviation. When the economy is generally good, like the past couple of years, most of the work consists of buyer representation in the acquisition of jets and turboprops.

When things are in the ditch, like in 2008-2011, it's mostly from appraisals, valuation services, dispositions, expert witness on commercial litigation cases and process improvement projects for MX shops and other businesses. I'm not a broker or dealer and don't sell airplanes for other people.

The reason I don't include website information in the sig lines is because i don't have one. All the business comes from referrals, so as long as the phone continues to ring I'll continue to answer it.

LandSickness said:
I know it's none of my business and it's probably rude to ask, but based on your description of what you do, I'm dying to know what exactly it is...Forgive me if I'm overstepping, but if I'm not, by all means, please spill. :popcorn:
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I'm not going to tell young David what to do.

I will, however, say that if I had everything to do over again, I'd skip the degrees. Seriously. All they do is cover a few square feet of wall space. The only courses that have been consistently useful were my English comp and math courses. I could have taken those courses individually, without matriculating and wasting all that time studying irrelevant crap merely to satisfy the schools' degree requirements. That time would have been better spent studying things that are actually useful.

The U.S. higher education system is a racket. With few exceptions (engineering being one), most "majors" comprise only about one-quarter of a student's work. By design, undergrad students spend from one-half to three-quarters of their time (and money) studying stuff that is irrelevant to their majors, including some courses that no student in his or her right mind would waste time with save for the fact that they're part of the required "core curriculum."

The education industry says this system of "liberal education" exists to create well-rounded, thoughtful graduates who are conversant in a broad range of disciplines. I say it's a scam to make bachelor's degrees useless for any purpose other than enrolling in more-expensive graduate programs.

So again, I'm not offering any advice to David about his education, but speaking for myself, I would skip matriculation and take only the courses in which I had an interest or which had some professional usefulness to me. And oh, I also would have as much fun as possible.

-Rich
 
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navigator44 said:
LeTourneau University, Longview, Texas, is an excellent engineering school One of the top two or three in the country.
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What exactly do you base the claim of top two or three in the country upon?

I sorta doubt that they are even top two or three in Texas but maybe that's just my negative outlook on academic excellence claims...
 
Well, I got the skinny from my dad today - the REAL reason he wants to sell it. It sounds like he found his dream house, and he needs another 60K otherwise he will have to pull money out of his retirement account (with some seriously negative tax implications) so he wants to sell it and use some of the money for that - he has done so much for me, it's time for me to help him.

And in the off chance that he ever reads this, I love you dad.
 
DavidWhite said:
Well, I got the skinny from my dad today - the REAL reason he wants to sell it. It sounds like he found his dream house, and he needs another 60K otherwise he will have to pull money out of his retirement account (with some seriously negative tax implications) so he wants to sell it and use some of the money for that - he has done so much for me, it's time for me to help him.

And in the off chance that he ever reads this, I love you dad.
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David, if I knew they would turn out like you, I'd go and start having kids again.

-Rich
 
jesse said:
"According to an annual salary survey conducted by the National Association of Colleges and Employers, aerospace engineers graduating with a bachelor's degree reported an average starting salary of $69,600 in 2011. This compares favorably with the average starting income of all 2011 graduates, who earned $41,701 per year. Furthermore, it also compares favorably with the average starting salary of all graduates in engineering, which was $61,872 per year as of 2011."
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And how much debt are those graduates carrying?

Nobody is buying Mooney J's fresh out of school, much less an Ovation. Graduates today are lucky to get jobs and maybe buy a new, reasonably priced car.
 
Why has no one mentioned dental school? Money plus time off. And pretty assistants if you so choose.

I have engineering degrees and a law degree and hate going to work every day.
 
RJM62 said:
I'm not going to tell young David what to do.

I will, however, say that if I had everything to do over again, I'd skip the degrees. Seriously. All they do is cover a few square feet of wall space. The only courses that have been consistently useful were my English comp and math courses. I could have taken those courses individually, without matriculating and wasting all that time studying irrelevant crap merely to satisfy the schools' degree requirements. That time would have been better spent studying things that are actually useful.

The U.S. higher education system is a racket. With few exceptions (engineering being one), most "majors" comprise only about one-quarter of a student's work. By design, undergrad students spend from one-half to three-quarters of their time (and money) studying stuff that is irrelevant to their majors, including some courses that no student in his or her right mind would waste time with save for the fact that they're part of the required "core curriculum."

The education industry says this system of "liberal education" exists to create well-rounded, thoughtful graduates who are conversant in a broad range of disciplines. I say it's a scam to make bachelor's degrees useless for any purpose other than enrolling in more-expensive graduate programs.

So again, I'm not offering any advice to David about his education, but speaking for myself, I would skip matriculation and take only the courses in which I had an interest or which had some professional usefulness to me. And oh, I also would have as much fun as possible.

-Rich
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I agree. Education is more important than any degree you hang on a wall. Equip yourself with the tools to be successful. That piece of paper proves only that you can finish what you started. That used to mean a lot. Not so much any more. Welcome to the gig economy.
 
I think the sad truth is, though that the BA is used as a screening too. You can't really become a CEO without one. Getting in the door is tough without one.

Unless you have access to enough knowledge and capital already to become a successful entrepreneur, the difference in lifetime earnings between one with a BA vs one without are staggering. Why to you think parent line up to spend the oodles of $$s on their kids?

At oldest daughter's commencement, in 2010, in the cold May rain, the president of the university announced, "....and I welcome you into the fellowship of educated men and women. If there ever was at time to thank your parents it is now!" She is a modern dancer living in NYC and working I.T. By training she's an anthropologist, in Margaret Mead's department. "well connected to the degree, huh?"

Actually, yes. The company uses her to report on how the customers use their web tools. :)
 
bbchien said:
I think the sad truth is, though that the BA is used as a screening too. You can't really become a CEO without one. Getting in the door is tough without one.

Unless you have access to enough knowledge and capital already to become a successful entrepreneur, the difference in lifetime earnings between one with a BA vs one without are staggering. Why to you think parent line up to spend the oodles of $$s on their kids?

At oldest daughter's commencement, in 2010, in the cold May rain, the president of the university announced, "....and I welcome you into the fellowship of educated men and women. If there ever was at time to thank your parents it is now!" She is a modern dancer living in NYC and working I.T. By training she's an anthropologist, in Margaret Mead's department. "well connected to the degree, huh?"

Actually, yes. The company uses her to report on how the customers use their web tools. :)
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In the end you become whatever you work to be. Those with a college degree have demonstrated they have the ability to accomplish something. That said, there is nothing to say those without it can't accomplish the same.

In my field, once you make a name for yourself the degree means nothing. It is quite useful however when you have no name and nothing else to show.
 
DavidWhite said:
Well if I was accepted to a college (that would be the hard part) my parents would have no trouble or reservations about sending me there. My dad wants me to sell the mooney, invest the dollars, and buy a cheaper plane more suited to my mission. (Which is now just to have fun, not go places)
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I don't think you would have a hard time getting into college. Being homeschooled makes little difference. If you go to community college they don't even require a hs diploma or ged. Go to college.


And get your CFI. Get it while you still have the Mooney. Backup plans are necessary anymore.
 
And you get to spend all day every day staring at bad teeth and smelling bad breath. Be still my heart.

Fitzhume said:
Why has no one mentioned dental school? Money plus time off. And pretty assistants if you so choose.

I have engineering degrees and a law degree and hate going to work every day.
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What if you decide you want to do something else?

jesse said:
In the end you become whatever you work to be. Those with a college degree have demonstrated they have the ability to accomplish something. That said, there is nothing to say those without it can't accomplish the same.

In my field, once you make a name for yourself the degree means nothing. It is quite useful however when you have no name and nothing else to show.
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