What should I do?

DavidWhite

DavidWhite

Final Approach
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
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Olympic Peninsula
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Display name:
DW
I'm back. That was a short vacation - but I'm back with a question.

I have a Mooney as some of you know, a nice Mooney, and I recently started paying for all of my own expenses. I'm installing new bladders in te wings and the price quickly got out of my budget and my dad offered to pay for it - sounds good. Now I was talking to him on the phone today and he told me I should sell the airplane - I CAN afford it, probably, as long as I don't have to put in a new engine tomorrow (I'd get a loan if I had to) but he is right. The plane will be an Albatross around my neck as long as I own it cost wise - I'm not a wealthy guy. I have a decent paying job for an 18 year old, but I make less than 50k/yr. In theory, I should be able to keep the mooney flying for about 15k/yr on a 100hr/yr budget. $150/hr ain't so bad, but if I sold it I would have enough Dave Dollars to buy a nice house.

My dad is a pretty savvy businessman, and he knows I love flying (which is why he bought me a plane - not that it makes any sense from a financial standpoint)

I kinda want to read the thread that Bo posted about why he owned an airplane, but I couldn't find it. So I guess I'm looking for advice. I know it's a decision only I can make, but hearing what other people would do in my shoes would be nice.
 
You have a flying job now, right?

If so, I'd say sell it....but as far as whether or not to buy a house....well, it may be a good time to buy, but home ownership vs renting is not unlike airplane ownership in that when stuff breaks (and it will) it is all on you to fix it. If you are trying to build an avaition resume, I think you want flexibility and owning a home may complicate that.

If I've misunderstood your goals in life, I apologize, but if a career flying is what you want to pursue, I'd sell the airplane and stick that money in some savings/investing. You'll want/need it in the future.
 
My suggestion, you are flying high performance singles for work right? Sell the Mooney and buy a Cessna 140/Tcraft/etc. Have some money in your pocket and a plane, bonus you are flying something different from your work plane. Downside is blasting across the country with a cabin full of girls is more complicated, of course you can just tell the girls to take the bus and meet you at the beach.
 
I probably make near what you do, can perform all my own maintenance and inspections and still don't own one...
 
David,

At this point I'd sell it... I'd be more than happy to point out a couple of other options that you probably could better afford to keep. And no, I'm not trying to sell you my bird.

Ryan
 
Call Dave Ramsey at 1800 -525-8225 he'll be glad to provide input.:wink2:

Kidding aside , I would sell man

, you can always own again..and It will be so much more enjoyable when the financial burden /risk isn't a big dent. After my dad died I owned his transam convertible with marginal finances as a teen..I had no life working to afford that car..never could enjoy it really...once I sold it and bought a cash Honda it was like getting a new life. Delay pleasure now...get a whole lot more later on.
 
It's one of the most complex and expensive planes you could own for it's size. Thousands of dollars in rubber and labor that needs to be replaced every 10 years or so.
 
Why are you spending a ton of money on bladders?

It seems to me that the cost of airplane ownership is what you make it.
 
Are you getting much multi time? That seems to be a stumbling block for may pilots starting out. The mooney doesn't do much to further your career.

A cheap twin, something like an Apache or similar would. Yes you would likely have to get parental assistance to keep it up. However they may be more willing to help out if it is furthering your life as a professional pilot.
 
Skylane81E said:
Are you getting much multi time? That seems to be a stumbling block for may pilots starting out. The mooney doesn't do much to further your career.

A cheap twin, something like an Apache or similar would. Yes you would likely have to get parental assistance to keep it up. However they may be more willing to help out if it is furthering your life as a professional pilot.
Click to expand...

I have seen 20k apaches eat bank accounts for breakfast.
 
taters said:
I have seen 20k apaches eat bank accounts for breakfast.
Click to expand...

Hence why he would need help, and I wouldn't recommend buying the cheapest one either, I picked it for the small engines and the resulting fuel burn, not the buy in.
 
Skylane81E said:
A cheap twin, something like an Apache or similar would. Yes you would likely have to get parental assistance to keep it up. However they may be more willing to help out if it is furthering your life as a professional pilot.
Click to expand...

Great point.


Also you could make your mooney ownership experience a lot less expensive. Its a very nice plane, I am sure you can find one or two pilots who would split the hangar and insurance cost with you, and pay you ~ $90/hr dry for maintenance and engine reserve. If you are borderline on being able to afford it now, how would you feel if the fixed costs were cut in half or by 2/3? Hangars are expensive.

If'n it twas me I would sell it and buy something like a Lancair or RV with a partner. Fast and very inexpensive to operate.
 
A partnership on a twin would make much more sense. Especially when you can't even rent one here if you wanted to.
 
bnt83 said:
A partnership on a twin would make much more sense
Click to expand...

I somewhat agree just for the multi time. Although if I was someone who flies for a living, I would also really value having a fast and efficient single at my disposal. Instead of flying around in a clunker Apache.
 
bnt83 said:
A partnership on a twin would make much more sense. Especially when you can't even rent one here if you wanted to.
Click to expand...

There's a glass Seneca 3 $300/hr wet...those guys might want a partner...they just spent over 25 k getting the fuel tanks replaced...they are younger guys too.
 
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dell30rb said:
I somewhat agree just for the multi time. Although if I was someone who flies for a living, I would also really value having a fast and efficient single at my disposal. Instead of flying around in a clunker Apache.
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How much are the rubber doughnuts? $2k+ a set + labor and last what 10 years? $700 in oil/fuel lines + labor? 4 CHT probes, 4 EGT probes, oil cooler, fuel injection system, cs prop, fuel flow sensor.

It may be easy on gas but long term ownership is a money pit not worth the X minutes saved enroute
 
taters said:
There's a glass Seneca 3 $300/hr wet...those guys would love a partner...they just spent over 25 k getting the fuel tanks replaced.
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I think Mark L wanted me to replace a tire on that one lol
 
I hate to say it, but sell the Mooney and save the money. YOu have a good job, but are you going to be there 5-10 years (I don't know the answer, but something to think about.)... If you end up getting a flying job somewhere else (like one of the coasts) you will be glad to have a fat bank account and no plane that needs a hangar.

You do need Multi Time, there are various ways to get that time. You'll want a couple hundred hours of it. I am not sure buying an apache would be my first choice, but it has been done successfully in the past.
 
bnt83 said:
How much are the rubber doughnuts? $2k+ a set + labor and last what 10 years? $700 in oil/fuel lines + labor? 4 CHT probes, 4 EGT probes, oil cooler, fuel injection system, cs prop, fuel flow sensor.

It may be easy on gas but long term ownership is a money pit not worth the X minutes saved enroute
Click to expand...

I assume you are not talking about a lancair, glasair or RV
 
Don't buy a twin, you are a working pro, you will be able to find/finagle/be paid for twin time. Maybe not today, but soon enough. For the guys advising partnerships remember Dave is a young guy, and a pro pilot, not a married middle manager with a house in the 'burbs. Mobility is necessary part of life, partnerships probably not a good idea.
Selling the Mooney is definitely the wise option. When I was a working pilot I went skydiving for fun. Aviation fun that wasn't work, portable, had money and time I jumped, had neither it didn't cost anything to leave my rig in the closet.
 
Gotta set your priorities. Then stick to them.

Personally, if I have to make a choice between a depreciating asset (plane, car, etc) and an asset that has a much better chance of appreciating or holding value (real estate, financial investments), I choose AGAINST the depreciating asset. Especially when said depreciating asset could end up costing a boatload of money (major engine failure). It WILL cost you money over time.

I know your situation is different, but I'm in plane ownership for a minimum of $10,000/year before I even start the engine (hangar, insurance, charts/subscriptions, annual). This year's annual will approach $10K (had to open fuel tank for preventative maintenance & discovered that some previous mechanic used wrong type of sealant that's difficult/impossible to remove). That, in turn, has blown the potential avionics budget.

Lots of other ways to fly, from renting to partnerships to clubs.

Oh, and you're young: consider the impact of putting that money into a retirement account now.... too many people are underfunded and social security is underfunded.
 
I just talked to my dad again - he'd buy me an RV4 or similar if I sold the Mooney, which makes my decision significantly easier.
 
I wouldn't be jumping on the "buy a house" bandwagon at this point in your life either. They are expensive, especially if you need to be mobile in the next 5-7 years.
 
ja_user said:
I wouldn't be jumping on the "buy a house" bandwagon at this point in your life either. They are expensive, especially if you need to be mobile in the next 5-7 years.
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Anything less than what? 10 years ownership on a house will be net loss?
 
bnt83 said:
Anything less than what? 10 years ownership on a house will be net loss?
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Depends on where you live. If you bought in the DC suburbs 2 years ago, you'd have a very nice rate of return. If you bought in the DC suburbs in 2006/2007, you might just now be breaking even.

Timing is everything.
 
wsuffa said:
Depends on where you live. If you bought in the DC suburbs 2 years ago, you'd have a very nice rate of return. If you bought in the DC suburbs in 2006/2007, you might just now be breaking even.

Timing is everything.
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True. That's a whole 'nother thread to come ;)
 
Let's review so I can get this figgered out.

The OP's father bought him a Mooney 4 seater. The OP is 18. He has a job, near, but under $50k/year. The plane requires mx which is costly at this time, but once done the repair will be good for >20 years. Father want's OP to sell the plane that father bought. As an incentive, once sold the father will then buy the OP an RV4 or like.

Do I have this roughly right? If I have it down, then surely I'm the OPs long lost brother, and tell dad I want a RV10, and I also want mx for the next 3 years too. :yikes:
 
docmirror said:
Let's review so I can get this figgered out.

The OP's father bought him a Mooney 4 seater. The OP is 18. He has a job, near, but under $50k/year. The plane requires mx which is costly at this time, but once done the repair will be good for >20 years. Father want's OP to sell the plane that father bought. As an incentive, once sold the father will then buy the OP an RV4 or like.

Do I have this roughly right? If I have it down, then surely I'm the OPs long lost brother, and tell dad I want a RV10, and I also want mx for the next 3 years too. :yikes:
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing...

But seriously, I don't smell any down side to David's Dad's idea.

-Rich
 
bnt83 said:
Anything less than what? 10 years ownership on a house will be net loss?
Click to expand...

Around here it is about 5, but as noted is different in different markets.
I don't advocate owning a plane unless you "get" something for it. To get something from a mooney you need to be traveling in it, if he isn't then it is the wrong plane.

For me I use the load and flat floor of my 182, I'm not aware of a smaller plane that could have taken the 900lbs of people to 89D last weekend like I did, and a bigger one would be beyond my current means to support so a 182 it is.

As David doesn't seem to have much need for a good traveling plane right now something cheap to own/fly for fun or something that gives useful logbook padding would be better choices. Something not slow (like the RV) would also be nice for solo trips home.
 
RJM62 said:
I was thinking the same thing...

But seriously, I don't smell any down side to David's Dad's idea.

-Rich
Click to expand...

Me either, I"m not writing the checks on my account.
 
In this situation, I'd sell it. I'd love to step up to something faster than my Sierra, but I'm not sure my wife would go for a Mooney.
 
DavidWhite said:
I just talked to my dad again - he'd buy me an RV4 or similar if I sold the Mooney, which makes my decision significantly easier.
Click to expand...
Would your dad adopt me? I'll even do the dishes & take out the garbage....
 
I hate saying it, but Sell It.

15k/ year is about 40% of your take home income. That's crazy for a hobby. At some point you are going to want to get married, or buy a house, or do other grown up things and having a nice nest egg saved up will be very helpful. The cool part is that you still get to fly at work.

I make a REALLY good living and I still feel guilty sometimes about what I'm spending on aviation that I could put into something else.
 
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