What makes a good IFR training aircraft?

fiveoboy01

fiveoboy01

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Dirty B
If you were buying an airplane and were not instrument rated, but planning on using it to do your instrument training, how would you want it equipped for said training? Of course mainly we are talking avionics, but anything else/other equipment in particular? What's the bare minimum, and what's ideal? I'm sure there's a difference.
 
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Lol!!! When I was a student it was two VOR's with swinging (windshield wiper) needles, one of which had a glide slope. The ADF had a manual movable compass card if you were lucky, otherwise it was fixed (never turned the movable anyway). If you were super lucky it had a DME.

God only knows what today's standards are..??
 
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This is what I had. Worked great for me! The ADF was inop for the checkride.

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Bare minimum - 5 pack (VS not required) a com and a nav radio w/GS of some sort...and prolly a transponder.

Practical - 6 pack in std arraignment and two com and nav radios with at least one GS. If there isn't an IFR GPS then a DME is helpful and they are pretty cheap anymore. Gotta have a transponder too. An ADF is a good learning tool but not so useful anymore since so many NDBs are neglected (hey, can you guys flip the switch on the NDB?...said it more than once when training - ADF is gone from the plane now).

Nice to have if you're really gonna fly IFR is at least a single axis autopilot. Not needed for training but handy if yer single pilot on a clearance.

And the 'kota ended up with an Aspen and a 430w with a functioning two-axis autopilot...if yer gonna spend hours in the clag it sure is nice to monitor rather than hand fly...
 
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Two nav coms,one with glide slope.tranponder,and GPS in place of adf. To be practical would like a single axis auto pilot. If your going to actually fly IFR you might as well learn how to use an auto pilot.
 
Minimum avionics: Dual nav/comm, transponder, audio panel, glide slope. I've trained people with only one nav/comm, but it's a lot harder. An IFR GPS is really nice, but not essential for training (even though real-world IFR flying today without an IFR GPS is essentially flying with one hand tied behind your back).

Airplane: As simple as you can get it but big enough for trainee and instructor to be comfortable and still hold 4 hours of fuel -- something like a Warrior, 172, or Tiger is perfect.

That said, the best plane for your IR training is the one you'll be flying after you get the training. If the minimum plane described is what you'll be flying, great. But don't buy a plane just for the IR training with the intent of selling it the next day. Either get your "later" plane now and do the IR training in it, or train in the plane you've been flying and then trade up later. You don't want to be trying to learn and get comfortable in a new-to-you plane at the same time you're trying to learn instrument flying.
 
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2 vor receivers, one with g/s. and a garmin 430.
But demand from your CFII that you learn extensively with minimum equipment.
One vor only, and no gyros. Plenty of needle/ ball & airspeed with only one vor and a clock.
Don't become dependent on the extra stuff.
 
Get as close as you can to what you'll ultimately be flying.

For training, I'd want a WAAS GPS - Garmin 430W or similar at a minimum. And all the other stuff. It's a GPS world and you're gonna have to have it before 2020 anyway (yes I know there are ways to get WAAS positioning without a navigator but I wouldn't do it IFR), so dual VORs is dead in my book.

I'd also want electric trim and a proper autopilot. Single pilot IFR without an autopilot is a recipe for disaster IMHO. You don't have to use it 100% of the time, but sometimes you just need to do other stuff besides maintain wings level or hold altitude, especially in IMC.

In my case I had an old Apollo/UPSAT/Garmin GX60 "IFR" GPS/Nav/Com/GS. It sucked donkey dongs even with the old MX-20 display. I hated it and didn't want to train on it. So I didn't start my rating until I had a GTN 750 installed. and the GX60 and MX20 gone. I had a good ap and only augmented it by adding a GPSS converter that feeds the HDG side of the ap.

And that's what I fly with now and I feel comfortable with the buttonology.
 
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Ok if it's a rental VERY basic, no moving map.

But you said BUYING, I recently bought a plane and having it IFR capable was on the list, my minumum was a at least one GNS series box with a HSI, second nav com switchable to the HSI and standard 6 pack with engine analyzer and vertical card compass, I wanted a good alternator and battery and since it's SINGLE PILOT I wanted a decent autopilot.

Here's the panel my plane came with, I'm happy with it minus I want to
replace the primary engine instruments with a EI and swap out the yokes for newer 182 style ones.

image.jpg



But the big needs

Good six pack
GNS or better box
HSI
Secondary nav com
Autopilot with GPSS.

Of course you'll want a nice big OAT if you ain't FIKI too.
 
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petrolero said:
Get as close as you can to what you'll ultimately be flying.
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This. It makes no sense (to me anyway) to buy an airplane just for instrument training, and then sell it and buy something else. Buy what fits your mission, whether that means mostly VFR plus IFR lite, or hard IFR, for the next xx years.

When I bought my airplane, the panel was ultimately my main criterion for choice. I rejected a couple of possibilities, including a 182 RG, because they had ancient, already obsolete avionics. In the end I bought a rather slow bird (Cardinal RG) with a 480 GPS (WAAS), a Sandel 3308 eHSI, an STEC-20 + System 60 PSS, GMX-200 MFD, SL30 Nav/Com 2 radio, dual SL70 transponders (one controlled by the 480, the other for backup, manually operated), plus ADS-B in/out for traffic and XM weather. In retrospect, I wish I'd bought a faster airplane, and the complex avionics suite definitely slowed down my training, but in the end, I'm very happy with a package I know how to fly well, and when I'm on my A-game in pretty much any weather it's safe to fly a small, non-FIKI plane in.
 
for basic training, a stopwatch, 6 pack, 2 vors (at least one with glideslope), a transponder, and two radio boxes (one with a standby frequency)
I would also suggest getting a plane that can comfortably climb to 5-6k at a minimum of 500fpm (a 152 doesn't do this)
 
TheGolfPilot said:
I would also suggest getting a plane that can comfortably climb to 5-6k at a minimum of 500fpm (a 152 doesn't do this)
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That's nice to have, but around here, not at all necessary -- where I live and do most of my instrument instructing, you can do an entire IR program plus practical test without ever going above 3000 MSL. And I've done just that in a C-152 and other planes of its ilk (e.g., AA-1x and Tomahawk). The real problem with planes in that class is max gross weight. Fortunately, I weigh in at only 165 lb with my headset, but even then, the trainee has to be under about 200 lb or we're leaving fuel behind (which creates problems for the typical 2.5-hour flights we do in our intensive training program).
 
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Ron Levy said:
That said, the best plane for your IR training is the one you'll be flying after you get the training.
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I figure I'll do something along these lines. Right now I'm busting out 40hrs hood time with a cfii friend in his da-20 just so we're through the minimum requirement and then focus on all of the real stuff beyond basic cruise flight in whatever plane we end up getting. Thinking Aztec, possibly 6-seat twin/comanche (two of the typical pax are kids). That way once I get it, I'm set and not trying to undo and relearn everything.

My Apache had its ASI on the right side of the sixpack. It's funny how hard it is to unlearn that -- for quick checks on airspeed I still glance to the right and end up staring at the altimeter.
 
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