What legal recourse do we have?

[Jimmy cooper]

She was as close as you can get to claiming that lithium batteries brought down MH370.... she claims there was a pallet of batteries on board. She claimed there were enough loopholes in the FAA's rules to allow too many batteries on board, and the only way to stop it is with many more FAA rules and inspections. Oh, and she took a swipe at the FAA for creating rules only as a reaction (rather than proactively) - and that such has been the case since the 1980's.

And this was featured on the news last night where a pallet of like battery's caught fire in a simulated airliner hold. Seems perfectly possible to me, considering that a battery fire grounded the whole Boeing fleet. I think mary holds a commercial multi rating with quite a few hours doesn't she? ( verses some mouthy woman just shooting her mouth off type.) she was gotten rid of as she spoke her mind and the drones objected to this.

 

[Lindberg]

She was as close as you can get to claiming that lithium batteries brought down MH370.... she claims there was a pallet of batteries on board. She claimed there were enough loopholes in the FAA's rules to allow too many batteries on board, and the only way to stop it is with many more FAA rules and inspections. Oh, and she took a swipe at the FAA for creating rules only as a reaction (rather than proactively) - and that such has been the case since the 1980's.

And this was featured on the news last night where a pallet of like battery's caught fire in a simulated airliner hold. Seems perfectly possible to me, considering that a battery fire grounded the whole Boeing fleet. I think mary holds a commercial multi rating with quite a few hours doesn't she? ( verses some mouthy woman just shooting her mouth off type.) she was gotten rid of as she spoke her mind and the drones objected to this.

So, what do FAA regs have to do with a flight of the Malay flag carrier from Malaysia to China? I'm going to go with shooting her mouth off.

 

[Palmpilot]

So, what do FAA regs have to do with a flight of the Malay flag carrier from Malaysia to China? I'm going to go with shooting her mouth off.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Maybe. We had an airport here in California that was bearing down on GA 'cause of hundreds of noise complaints a month. Legal wrangling got us copies of the complaints... All from the same five people!

That's typical and one of the main purposes of an airport's "Noise Hotline." Interesting about the "legal wrangling." During the height of noise complaint issues my old airport publicly published, not the phone numbers themselves, but the distribution of complaints and numbers, as in 80% of complaints coming from 4 numbers.

 

[warthog1984]

That's typical and one of the main purposes of an airport's "Noise Hotline." Interesting about the "legal wrangling." During the height of noise complaint issues my old airport publicly published, not the phone numbers themselves, but the distribution of complaints and numbers, as in 80% of complaints coming from 4 numbers.

ORD's better- after the new runways, noise complaints shot up to 100,000s. 80% from 11 addresses, and HALF from a single address.

 

[Catalo]

ORD's better- after the new runways, noise complaints shot up to 100,000s. 80% from 11 addresses, and HALF from a single address.

Can I ask where you saw that stat? I'm Pretty sure I live around the corner from the half people

 

[jnmeade]

Be very careful. An FAA guy could call you and ask for a quick paragragh to clear this up, and all they are looking for is a written self confession that can and will be used against you.

The FAA are experts at issuing violations and know all the little tricks and traps to get a pilot to confess without proper representation. And most pilots are more than willing and say way too much. Get an expert on aviation law to work for you.

I'm personally aware of two cases where this point of view could be held. In both cases, the pilot says he thought he was cooperating fully and candidly, only to find his words not only used against him but taken provably out of context and in ways that were not accurate.

The FAA has powerful position. They can say, and appear to often follow through, with the idea that if you fess up to your sins you will be given an appropriate slap on the wrist and sent on your way. They tell you up front that if you do not cooperate it will be seen as obstructive (my words, but the idea is clear). Then, if you cooperate further than in retrospect you should have, they will hang you with what they said you said.

It seems to me the pilot is in a no-win situation. What is worse, it is very difficult without inside knowledge of the situation to "game" the personality of the investigator, the reputation of the FSDO, the objectives of regional or any of the other things going on behind the scenes.

Is there any basis to assume that providing data from your own instrumentation will get you off the hook? What was the deal with the wife of the former AOPA chief who was accused of some airspace violation, can someone refresh my memory?

 

[jnmeade]

If you don't know your Miranda you deserve what you get. I've watched a few talk their way right into jail.

Yeah, there is a recent case of a highway stop in Iowa that resulted in administrative confiscation of $100,000 in cash. The stop was essentially overturned because it was done wrong. What came out in the investigation is the training the cops received by some outfit in Oklahoma (which does it nationwide) which prepared them to obfuscate the law and use all sorts of tactics to confuse people as to their rights.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...owa-troopers-unlawfully-seized-cash/16510635/

An example of the police intelligence operations:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/07/police-intelligence-targets-cash/

It's hard for me to agree that each of us should be expected to know the law and to be willing to exercise it in the face of police and authority behavior as reported above. Our families, neighbors and friends are not given the instruction and training to deal with this kind of situation as the police are.

 

[bnt83]

Yeah, there is a recent case of a highway stop in Iowa that resulted in administrative confiscation of $100,000 in cash. The stop was essentially overturned because it was done wrong. What came out in the investigation is the training the cops received by some outfit in Oklahoma (which does it nationwide) which prepared them to obfuscate the law and use all sorts of tactics to confuse people as to their rights.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...owa-troopers-unlawfully-seized-cash/16510635/

An example of the police intelligence operations:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/07/police-intelligence-targets-cash/

It's hard for me to agree that each of us should be expected to know the law and to be willing to exercise it in the face of police and authority behavior as reported above. Our families, neighbors and friends are not given the instruction and training to deal with this kind of situation as the police are.

I was recently stopped for speeding in Nebraska. I immediately told the officer I'm hard of hearing. I didn't have my license on me. He came back and informed that it was expired (by three days) then got ****y wanting to search me and the car for a handgun because he found that I hold a CCW permit, fishing for another charge.

I had been to the DMV three weeks prior to this to change my address on my license and I did not realize they DID NOT RENEW it, even tho it was expiring in less than 30 days. He saw that when researching the DVM database and still handed me a $125 fine.

 

[denverpilot]

... wanting to search me and the car for a handgun because he found that I hold a CCW permit, fishing for another charge.

"Found"?

Nebraska is a must-notify State if you're carrying.

Handguns may be loaded and in plain sight or in "the trunk" (love that - as if most of us drive anything with a trunk ...) as a non-CCW permit holder -- and there's no charge that can be brought against a permit holder for having one anywhere else.

Except failure to notify. So what was he "fishing" for? That you failed to notify?

Maybe you'd rather not say. I'm just curious.

 

[mrkbbd]

"Found"?

Nebraska is a must-notify State if you're carrying.

Handguns may be loaded and in plain sight or in "the trunk" (love that - as if most of us drive anything with a trunk ...) as a non-CCW permit holder -- and there's no charge that can be brought against a permit holder for having one anywhere else.

Except failure to notify. So what was he "fishing" for? That you failed to notify?

Maybe you'd rather not say. I'm just curious.

This is state dependent - some states do not require notice. I find it always best to let the officer know by handing the driver's license and the permit to them on first encounter (actually got out a few tickets that way). You never want to say the words "gun" and always keep hands where they can see. Ask for permission to reach in your pocket, in the glove box, etc. and if you've gotten to this point tell them there is a firearm with the documents, how would you like me to proceed?

Terry v. Ohio changed a lot of the reasonable suspicion rules, but I *think* acting like that gives them 0 ability to search the car without permission. Furthermore, if they do want to search the car, always object and make sure your objection can clearly be heard by the video camera in the car. If there is something in your car, at least your attorney can work to get it thrown out...

 

[denverpilot]

This is state dependent - some states do not require notice. I find it always best to let the officer know by handing the driver's license and the permit to them on first encounter (actually got out a few tickets that way). You never want to say the words "gun" and always keep hands where they can see. Ask for permission to reach in your pocket, in the glove box, etc. and if you've gotten to this point tell them there is a firearm with the documents, how would you like me to proceed?



Terry v. Ohio changed a lot of the reasonable suspicion rules, but I *think* acting like that gives them 0 ability to search the car without permission. Furthermore, if they do want to search the car, always object and make sure your objection can clearly be heard by the video camera in the car. If there is something in your car, at least your attorney can work to get it thrown out...

All good points, but I was more curious about this so called "fishing" in Nebraska.

(Assuming they have a camera is a bad assumption. Have your own. If you live in a free State where you're allowed to film.)

In Nebraska, there was nothing to "fish" for, if the driver followed Nebraska law.

If the driver didn't follow Nebraska law, there still isn't anything to "fish" for, other than evidence that they didn't follow the law.

Even then, as the post pointed out, the officer can't search the vehicle without permission or reasonable cause that a crime is taking place, which even the person posting knew and didn't authorize.

So the whole "officer was fishing" story, seems a little "fishy" to me.

If I broke the law, I certainly wouldn't be posting that the officer was trying to catch me at it, and that I got away with it, in a public forum. But to each their own...

 

[somorris]

I read the OP's post and it made me think of the many times here and on the Red Board that I have seen posts about "should I turn this guy in." Not so nice when the shoe is on the other foot. . No matter the violation, I think deciding to pick up the telephone and call (tattle tale to) the FAA should be WAY down the list of possible actions. In this case, I see no alternative other than to ride it out now that some other PILOT felt the call was warranted. This is a very sad situation in my book.

 

[ClimbnSink]

So much of that, if I wasn't so lazy I'd turn everyone in for everything. Pilots don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, since they are loathe to give it.

I read the OP's post and it made me think of the many times here and on the Red Board that I have seen posts about "should I turn this guy in." Not so nice when the shoe is on the other foot. . No matter the violation, I think deciding to pick up the telephone and call (tattle tale to) the FAA should be WAY down the list of possible actions. In this case, I see no alternative other than to ride it out now that some other PILOT felt the call was warranted. This is a very sad situation in my book.

 

[Direct C51]

There must be a lot of aviation lawyers on this forum looking for business. Suggesting this guy spend a few hundred dollars to talk to a lawyer about a BS low flying call in is a little extreme. Tell the investigator the truth and spend 5 minutes on the phone and $0.

 

[ChrisK]

I don't mind saying that I called TRACON about a pilot and photographer (on the ground taking pictures of the plane) doing low passes over the freeway. If I wanted them busted i would have called the police. The pilot and photographer were causing issues for motorists on the ground and I really wanted a comtroller to tell them that. Unfortunately they were not talking to approach but were identified. I let it go with a request that if the pilot asked for services that he be informed of the issue.

Most of us really do not want to go out of our way to upset people.

 

[Palmpilot]

So much of that, if I wasn't so lazy I'd turn everyone in for everything. Pilots don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, since they are loathe to give it.

There are many pilots who don't believe in turning other pilots in, who thus by the reasoning above do deserve the benefit of the doubt. It's never unanimous in these discussions, or anything close to it.

 

[denverpilot]

So much of that, if I wasn't so lazy I'd turn everyone in for everything. Pilots don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, since they are loathe to give it.

Internet message board pilots.

You need to get out more if the doofuses here have given you that impression of all pilots.

 

[comanchepilot]

Have you received a LOI (Letter of Investigation)?

Your best bet is to cooperate, state your side of the story. More than likely this will be dropped with informal counseling.

If that doesn't do it for you, give an attorney a call.

Here is your informal counseling:

"we get a lot of complaints in that area [the same guy calls us all the time]

"So the next time you are over there - just be careful where you set your lanes up . . ." [in other words - don't give the guy a reason to call us today]

Thats it - usually. I'm going to assume you had a code and were doing this with radar advisories, which means you likely had a code - thus there are ATC tapes that may still exist with showing your altitude. Now, if you KNOW you were legal, those tapes could be very helpful - so you might want to contact the tracon /center and see if they have you on their tapes at that time and place -

 

[comanchepilot]

I was recently stopped for speeding in Nebraska. I immediately told the officer I'm hard of hearing. I didn't have my license on me. He came back and informed that it was expired (by three days) then got ****y wanting to search me and the car for a handgun because he found that I hold a CCW permit, fishing for another charge.

I had been to the DMV three weeks prior to this to change my address on my license and I did not realize they DID NOT RENEW it, even tho it was expiring in less than 30 days. He saw that when researching the DVM database and still handed me a $125 fine.

So you assumed that a DMV employee was going to be helpful and competent and renew your license without you asking?

hahahahahah
hahahahahahahahaha

hahaha

ha

 

[Matthew]

So you assumed that a DMV employee was going to be helpful and competent and renew your license without you asking?

hahahahahah
hahahahahahahahaha

hahaha

ha

Laughing is contagious!




DMV probably charged a late fee for renewing an expired registration, and the cops got a $125 bonus. It was full of win for nearly everyone.


PS - this happened to me, too, after I moved to a new State. I got new tags, expecting them to be good for a year. I didn't realize they expired less than two months later. I drove on them for nearly 6 months before I got stopped.

 

[pmanton]

So you assumed that a DMV employee was going to be helpful and competent and renew your license without you asking?

hahahahahah
hahahahahahahahaha

hahaha

ha

Move to AZ.
We went into the DMV for a vehicle registration issue and the clerk informed us that both of our licenses had expired. (My birthday and my wife's are only a couple of weeks apart) The clerk laughed and commented that it was lucky a cop hadn't stopped us and renewed both of us.

 

[Jaybird180]

During a vacation in Florida, I was stopped in a rental car. The cop confiscated my drivers license because Maryland had expired it in their computer (retroactively about 12 years).

When I got back to the MVA, they told me that the burden of proof of payment of an old ticket was on me. Straight Gangsta move they did.

In this time, I'd changed states of residence several times and received a license in Maryland at least twice, all without complication. Now, keep documentation well beyond 10years for anything that I may have to deal with a local, state or federal government agency.

 

[ki4lzk]

Laughing is contagious!




DMV probably charged a late fee for renewing an expired registration, and the cops got a $125 bonus. It was full of win for nearly everyone.


PS - this happened to me, too, after I moved to a new State. I got new tags, expecting them to be good for a year. I didn't realize they expired less than two months later. I drove on them for nearly 6 months before I got stopped.

The way we do vehicle registration in Kansas is just nuts. It is done by last name. My last name is starts with a J so we renew in June. When we initially got KS Tags we did this in Feb. The fee was prorated through June. We then had to return in June to renew.... INSANE>

 

[Matthew]

The way we do vehicle registration in Kansas is just nuts. It is done by last name. My last name is starts with a J so we renew in June. When we initially got KS Tags we did this in Feb. The fee was prorated through June. We then had to return in June to renew.... INSANE>

Yep. That's what got me.

I had lived in MO, where you register annually based on the last time you renewed. Then I moved across the street into KS, in August or September, and got new tags, probably in October. They then expired on my last name anniversary in November. I think I got stopped in March...

 

[denverpilot]

The way we do vehicle registration in Kansas is just nuts. It is done by last name. My last name is starts with a J so we renew in June. When we initially got KS Tags we did this in Feb. The fee was prorated through June. We then had to return in June to renew.... INSANE>

That's fully retarded. Wow.

 

[Matthew]

That's fully retarded. Wow.

Just the first time.

Back in the day, like until the early 80s, KS tags were formatted XYZ NNNN. XY were the two character county abbreviation, and Z corresponded to the first letter of your last name and so it also indicated the month the tag expired. NNNN was a numeric sequence. Obviously not every letter gets its own month. My last name starts with W, so my registration expires in Nov. When I lived in Leavenworth county my tags would have been LVW NNNN. When I lived in Douglas county they would have been DGW NNNN, and when I moved to Johnson county they became JOW NNNN. Lots of logistics there, like how often so you actually need to get a new license plate if you just moved across a county line? Now we have the normal AAA NNNN like everyone else. But our registration stickers on the license plates still have our county letters.

 

[bluerooster]

A couple of years ago I had an airline pilot report a near miss with me just outside of Class C airspace. Through a friend I heard that the FAA was looking for the pilot of the glider involved in the near miss report. As a result I called the ASI, and simply told him what had happened.

I had observed the Airliner 5 miles away headed toward where I was circling. I maneuvered to avoid and was a on a 90 degree diverging coarse when the airline passed about a mile behind me. AKA See and Avoid the way it is supposed to work. I didn't bother to mention that I had a GPS flight recorder on board.

The ASI requested I attend one of the regular Wings Safety presentations they do periodically. I attend these occasionally anyway. They had an Airline representative present how they would really like all aircraft to be transponder equipped and I got to explain the difficulties in installing and powering a transponder in a glider.

The ASI got to mark off that he had consulted with and provided training to all the parties involved. End of story.

Through this event I learned that a near miss with a glider as defined by this airline is code for the they saw a glider that didn't show up on the TCAS.

As you can tell I am generally in the camp of be cooperative until they give you some reason not to be. I have worked with the FAA enough to know it usually works out best when you can make their job easier.
Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

Don't gliders have RW over powered aircraft? Yes, Yes they do, re-91.113. So if the airline got close enough that the PIC felt the need to report it. One would think he would be at fault for not yielding the right of way to the glider. TCAS be damned.