What I learned today: "Toilet Bowl" approach for Aspen, CO

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by AggieMike88, Jan 25, 2020.

  1. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    17,847
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    It actually looks like a swirly.

    3252FB53-EE86-4A38-A61A-FCC3C812A309.png
     
    denverpilot and Jim K like this.
  2. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    7,621
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    "1234 X-ray, cleared for the flush!"
     
  3. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    17,847
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    If this was south of the equator, does it twist the other direction?
     
    denverpilot and Pilawt like this.
  4. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    7,365
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    LMAO. It would. I couldn’t remember for sure and went to the crapper and flushed it to make sure it was counter clockwise here.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  5. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    2,244
    Location:
    TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FORANE
  6. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    10,689
    Location:
    Chapel Hill NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Standard approach.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  7. aterpster

    aterpster En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,551
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    aterpster
    This look any better?

    ROARING FORK VISUAL RWY 15.jpg
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  8. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    17,847
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Yes. One of many features I like about Jepp plates
     
  9. texasclouds

    texasclouds Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,190
    Location:
    Bryan, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Not much room for error.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  10. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    6,564
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MauleSkinner
    Lots of room, actually. More misconceptions than facts seem to exist about that airport.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  11. texasclouds

    texasclouds Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,190
    Location:
    Bryan, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Lots more pointy rock things than we have here in central TX.
     
  12. NoHeat

    NoHeat En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,826
    Location:
    Iowa City, IA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    17
    I've never seen a plate like this. Two questions:
    • How to plan the descent rate without precise distance info. I can see the change in altitude is about -7000', depending on which arm of the spiral is chosen, but the distance along each arm -- that looks kind of vague, I'm guessing maybe about 12 NM starting at the top of descent where they suggest an altitude, so that an angle of maybe 5.5 degrees is required on the descent, which would mean maybe -1100 fpm at 120 knots. Does it pose a problem, for planning descent rate, that they don't provide precise distances?
    • What's the altitude correction for cold temperatures that's mentioned in the notes?
     
  13. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    9,101
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    What's missing is the plan view. There's no plan view for the Visual because the assumption is clear and probably coming in from the NW (Glenwood Springs area) which is lower in altitude. But here's the Red Table GPS approach with plan view.
     

    Attached Files:

    denverpilot likes this.
  14. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    6,564
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MauleSkinner
    Miss the mountains visually, and use the same aiming point technique you normally use on final, except aim short so you can shallow out onto the PAPIs. Idle power and full landing configuration are your friends.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  15. texasag93

    texasag93 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    texasag93
    I have come in over the Roaring Fork River and landed. Fun stuff...............
     
  16. aterpster

    aterpster En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,551
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    aterpster
    Don't you mean profile view?
     
    bbchien likes this.
  17. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    9,101
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    I Just failed the instrument oral with the first question.....
     
    Dave Theisen likes this.
  18. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Messages:
    32,222
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Everskyward
    1. You don't need to be that precise since you're doing it visually. In fact the spirals are not meant to be exact tracks, just an approximation of your route when entering from various directions.

    2. https://nbaa.org/wp-content/uploads...AA-Cold-Temp-Restricted-Airports-20191010.pdf Basically it means that you need to add altitude to segments of the approach due to the fact that your true altitude is lower than your indicated altitude in extreme cold conditions. "High to low, look out below."
     
  19. aterpster

    aterpster En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,551
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    aterpster
    Naw. Just means more questions.
     
  20. danhagan

    danhagan Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,864
    Location:
    El Paso, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    danhagan
    Would have been more impressive if runway was depicted by a "turd", THEN it'd be a nice flush pattern:eek::confused:;)

    OTOH, they may be telling you what to expect on your vacation in this area:p
     
  21. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    796
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    lancie00
    Once you land, don't forget to finish up with the 2-ply paperwork.
     
  22. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    6,564
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MauleSkinner
    BTW...it’s a good thing @AggieMike88 ”leaned”, given the altitudes involved. ;)
     
  23. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    51,603
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    As others have pointed out, it’s visual.

    Look out window. Descend. Don’t hit ****. Done.

    LOL. :)