What happens if you "Fail" a Medical Exam

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JohnHendricks

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JohnHendricks
Hello all,

I am a 45 y/o student pilot trying to understand the nature of the FAA medical exams. What happens if you go in thinking you're healthy, but find out you have some disqualifying issue?

For example, I tend to have white coat syndrome, and so my blood pressure, while completely normal at home, elevates fairly high at doctor's offices. If the examiner saw my bp was over the threshold, would I get denied at that point and have to go through a lengthy process of getting a special issuance? Would my denial follow me around?

I also stare at computer screens all day long for my normal day job, and feel it's probably not great for my vision. And while the brief check at my normal doctor's office has revealed no issues (at least that were told to me), what happens if I'm not up to par with an AME's evaluation?

All the research I've done about SODA's and special issuances seem to be for pretty blatant conditions like bipolar, cardiac valve replacement, missing a limb, etc...so I'm not sure if something relatively benign and normal for aging would be a huge ding on my record if I went in not knowing about it. Any guidance?

Thank you
 
Well, you start by not going in to the exam without knowing you’re going pass.

Generally speaking, if you’re healthy and have no alcohol, drug, criminal, or mental issues (as defined by the FAA), you will pass. But, you need to do your homework up front.

Second, you may want to schedule a consult with the AME, let them see the paper copy of your MedXpress app, but don’t give them the confirmation #.

If they say they can issue in the office, then give them the confirmation # and go live.

Once they take the form live, there isn’t really a path to go back, so that’s why you don’t give them the confirmation # until after the AME says they’ll be able to issue.
 
JohnHendricks said:
For example, I tend to have white coat syndrome, and so my blood pressure, while completely normal at home, elevates fairly high at doctor's offices. If the examiner saw my bp was over the threshold, would I get denied at that point and have to go through a lengthy process of getting a special issuance? Would my denial follow me around?
Click to expand...
The AME's who do the exam are very aware that White Coat Syndrome is a thing. The Guide to Aviation Medical Examiners provides instructions to re-do the BP reading later in the exam if the first reading is high.

Everything I read about doing a BP measurement says for you to sit quietly, back supported, legs uncrossed, feet on the floor, no talking, and be there for at least 5 minutes before doing the reading. But at all the doctor offices I've been too and especially the AME I've seen in the past, everything is so rush rush that you're lucky to get 90 seconds to "Enhance your calm, John Spartan". So it's your medical and if you need the full 5 minutes, tell the nurse that and make her abide by it. Perhaps have a 5 minute timer ready on your phone and make that visible on the arm of the chair.

Other items from this page may answer your BP questions: https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...m/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item55/amd/


Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners
https://www.faa.gov/news/stay_connected/
Decision Considerations - Aerospace Medical Dispositions
Item 55. Blood Pressure

Examining Options
  1. An applicant whose pressure does not exceed 155 mm mercury systolic and 95 mm mercury diastolic maximum pressure, who has not used antihypertensive medication for 30 days, and who is otherwise qualified should be issued a medical certificate by the Examiner.
  2. If the airman's blood pressure is elevated in clinic, you have any of the following options:
  • Recheck the blood pressure. If the airman meets FAA specified limits on the second attempt, note this in Block 60 along with both readings.
  • Have the airman return to clinic 3 separate days over a 7-day period. If the airman meets FAA specified limits during these re-checks, note this and the readings in Block 60. Also note if there was a reason for the blood pressure elevation.
  • Send the airman back to his/her treating physician for re-evaluation. If medication adjustment is needed, a 7-day no-fly period applies to verify no problems with the medication. If this can be done within the 14 day exam transmission period, you could then follow the Hypertension Disposition Table.
The Examiner must defer issuance of a medical certificate to any applicant whose hypertension has not been evaluated, who uses unacceptable medications, whose medical status is unclear, whose hypertension is uncontrolled, who manifests significant adverse effects of medication, or whose certification has previously been specifically reserved to the FAA.​
 
JohnHendricks said:
I also stare at computer screens all day long for my normal day job, and feel it's probably not great for my vision. And while the brief check at my normal doctor's office has revealed no issues (at least that were told to me), what happens if I'm not up to par with an AME's evaluation?
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If there is any question about vision, flight or not, go see a reputable eye doctor in your area for a "eye health wellness check". If anyone reading this in the future has diabetes in their medical history (personal or familial) you should definite be getting eyes checked. Your primary doc knows the "top level" things to look for, but isn't as well equipped to do the full work up an eye doc can.

Usually the biggest surprise new airmen have regarding vision is color vision. While color blindness might actually be there, other applicants get wrapped around the axle because the test is administered incorrectly. If the test is the Ishihara plates (round circle full of colored dots with a "hidden" number or letter) and it is not administered in daylight conditions, the likelihood of a problem occurring is increased. For this test, make sure you are standing either outdoors or near a window in full sunlight.

Other ways color vision is tested for is use of specialized machinery. As long as these are calibrated correctly and the test is administered correctly, the results are usually spot on.

If you suspect color blindness in one form or degree, it isn't the end of your aviation career. You will just need to work a bit harder to demonstrate your ability to distinguish between the reds, greens, and other colors prevalent in aviation.
 
@JohnHendricks ... As @TCABM mentions, the best way to calm your fears is do not go into the "live" medical examination until you know beyond 100% that you will walk out with your medical certificate in hand.

Or, if you have something in your history that requires a deferral, you already know that a deferral will happen, but have brought to the exam EVERYTHING the reviewers in OKC are going to need to satisfy the standards and issue you.

To see what items are being asked for, Google for the FAA Form 8500-5 and read the sections on doctor visits, medications, medical history, and interactions with law enforcement that included controlled substances and/or alcohol.

Most doctor visits are benign, but if you were to say "visited ER because my chest hurt and I thought I was having heart attack", then that is going to ring a bell to require much more information.

Most medications, again, are benign, but some are very significant and are going to catch the medical reviewers attention. Then the FAA is going to want to know more detail about what, how much, how frequent, and why are you taking them. Some medications can lead to more questions, especially if you have not adequately explained.

Something to be aware of here is the "blow your leg off" landmine of "off label" use. This is where your treating physician uses a medication to treat you for something that ins't what the med was originally designed for, but does work for your situation.

Some examples here are well known SSRI's being prescribed not to treat depression or anxiety, but for weight loss or quitting smoking. The FAA will see the name of the medication and might toss you under the bus unless you can come to them ready to comply with the protocol to manage the situation.
​
Medical History is question 18a through 18w. Read through all of those. If any of them are a yes to the "HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE..." preamble, be ready to provide additional information, doctor reports, and lab reports as needed.

Interactions with law enforcement require the right type of documentation to explain things and hopefully show you've matured and not the wild party animal that "enjoyed" the LEO's hospitality. But however, if there is a pattern or frequency of events, this raises the bar on what is needed to "tell your story" to the FAA​


If after reading these posts, the information asked for in the 8500-5 form (aka www.MedXpress.gov), and the Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners, you still have doubts you will be issued a medical certificate, then your instructions are this:
  • Do not present yourself to a live examination. This is where you complete MedXpress and once at the AME's office, surrender the confirmation code.
  • Do ask the AME to provide a consultation. This is where you can supply a draft of your medical history, medications, doctor visits, etc, and then discuss with the AME your ability to successfully apply for medical certification.
    • If after reviewing your situation, the AME says, "I see there may be a problem here....", then discuss what is needed to make that a non-problem.
    • If after reviewing your situation, the AME says, "I don't see any issues, you have provided me with what I need to issue you right away." then and only then do you proceed to a live exam.

If for some reason the AME you have selected says, "Sorry, I don't do consultations," thank him and seek out one who does. Unfortunately not all AME's do consultations, but many will. Ask around to your local aviation community to find one who will.


Finally, if there is anything really gnarly, thorny, and knotty in your medical past and you want to speak to a Senior AME who will provide the right information the first time, we have two who regularly participate here:
You can send them a private message (called a "conversation" on this forum software) and discuss your situation.


I hope all of this helps.... Ask questions if needed.
 
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Current wisdom seems to be that White Coat Syndrome == hypertension. But my AME has you chill in a comfy chair for five minutes before taking BP so you have your best shot. And given how high the FAAs standard is for hypertension, if you fail on that, you seriously should be treated. So 1) go to your regular doc and get a physical and then 2) go to the AME for a consultation if you have to answer "yes" to anything on the form.
 
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TCABM said:
Well, you start by not going in to the exam without knowing you’re going pass.
Click to expand...
This. If you possess any of the stated conditions that might be disqualifying than you just don’t go straight for the exam, but rather a medical doctor who can assess you beforehand. This will give you a better idea if you’ll pass or not.
 
TCABM said:
...Generally speaking, if you’re healthy and have no alcohol, drug, criminal, or mental issues (as defined by the FAA), you will pass....
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Unfortunately, the FAA's definition of "healthy" can have unpleasant surprises even for people who think of themselves as generally healthy. Their list of disqualifying conditions is long, is often not obvious to people who are not knowledgeable about FAA medical certification, and in some cases conditions that you don't currently have but have had "ever in your life" can create significant expense and ridiculous delays.
 
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AggieMike88 said:
The AME's who do the exam are very aware that White Coat Syndrome is a thing. The Guide to Aviation Medical Examiners provides instructions to re-do the BP reading later in the exam if the first reading is high.

Everything I read about doing a BP measurement says for you to sit quietly, back supported, legs uncrossed, feet on the floor, no talking, and be there for at least 5 minutes before doing the reading. But at all the doctor offices I've been too and especially the AME I've seen in the past, everything is so rush rush that you're lucky to get 90 seconds to "Enhance your calm, John Spartan". So it's your medical and if you need the full 5 minutes, tell the nurse that and make her abide by it. Perhaps have a 5 minute timer ready on your phone and make that visible on the arm of the chair.

Other items from this page may answer your BP questions: https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...m/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item55/amd/


Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners
Decision Considerations - Aerospace Medical Dispositions
Item 55. Blood Pressure

Examining Options
  1. An applicant whose pressure does not exceed 155 mm mercury systolic and 95 mm mercury diastolic maximum pressure, who has not used antihypertensive medication for 30 days, and who is otherwise qualified should be issued a medical certificate by the Examiner.
  2. If the airman's blood pressure is elevated in clinic, you have any of the following options:
  • Recheck the blood pressure. If the airman meets FAA specified limits on the second attempt, note this in Block 60 along with both readings.
  • Have the airman return to clinic 3 separate days over a 7-day period. If the airman meets FAA specified limits during these re-checks, note this and the readings in Block 60. Also note if there was a reason for the blood pressure elevation.
  • Send the airman back to his/her treating physician for re-evaluation. If medication adjustment is needed, a 7-day no-fly period applies to verify no problems with the medication. If this can be done within the 14 day exam transmission period, you could then follow the Hypertension Disposition Table.
The Examiner must defer issuance of a medical certificate to any applicant whose hypertension has not been evaluated, who uses unacceptable medications, whose medical status is unclear, whose hypertension is uncontrolled, who manifests significant adverse effects of medication, or whose certification has previously been specifically reserved to the FAA.​
Click to expand...

I've heard that deep breathing can also help with white-coat syndrome.

I used to just barely squeak by the FAA's rather lenient BP standards. Losing a bunch of weight greatly improved that.
 
I don't want to de-emphasize anything that anybody has said, because things do crop up that really catch people off-guard. For example, sleep apnea was the big problem a few years ago. I think that has been reined in somewhat now, though.

However, unless you have one of those health issues that are a problem, the medical exam is really very perfunctory - very "high level". I mean, the hearing test is literally "can you hear the AME talking quietly". This isn't a Mercury astronaut physical like in The Right Stuff.

I have met people who are very, very concerned about the medical exam, that the doctor is going to disapprove you based on the ingrown toenail you had in 7th grade. It's nothing like that.
 
The exam itself is a non-problem for many people. Based on my own experience, and on experiences that others have written about, the surprises often come from stuff on the medical history form.
 
Ryanb said:
This. If you possess any of the stated conditions that might be disqualifying than you just don’t go straight for the exam, but rather a medical doctor who can assess you beforehand. This will give you a better idea if you’ll pass or not.
Click to expand...

A visit to one's primary care physician in advance of an exam by an AME for the purpose of obtaining a medical is of very dubious value.

The PCP will almost certainly have no idea what the intricacies of the prescription medication minefield are, and will not be able to assess the impact of any prior mental health or substance abuse episodes experienced by the applicant. There are other areas that have similar traps for the unsuspecting.

A consultation visit with an AME is the best way to determine in advance what issues may arise during the real thing. For a student pilot with no prior knowledge of the medical exam requirements, it's the only way to avoid what might turn into a denial costing thousands of dollars and years to overcome.

AggieMike's post #6 above contains very good advice.
 
Failure can result in an outright denial - no way, no how. Could result in a deferral - supply a bunch of information on a short timeline - some may be easy to get, some may involve expensive, medically unnecessary, testing that is not covered by your insurance.

In either case you be skrewt for options like sport pilot.

For 90 some percent of us, snot a big deal at all - walk in and fog a mirror
For a few of us, big expensive problems - sometimes for things that your personal doctor would consider minor.
And for a very few, it's just not an option. .

Know before you go
 
RussR said:
I don't want to de-emphasize anything that anybody has said, because things do crop up that really catch people off-guard. For example, sleep apnea was the big problem a few years ago. I think that has been reined in somewhat now, though.

However, unless you have one of those health issues that are a problem, the medical exam is really very perfunctory - very "high level". I mean, the hearing test is literally "can you hear the AME talking quietly". This isn't a Mercury astronaut physical like in The Right Stuff.

I have met people who are very, very concerned about the medical exam, that the doctor is going to disapprove you based on the ingrown toenail you had in 7th grade. It's nothing like that.
Click to expand...
OSA is a good example. Diabetes another. Migraines. Prior SSRI use. Unapproved allergy medicines. Etc. There are plenty of conditions that a "healthy person" could have that the FAA looks askance at. That doesn't mean get wrapped around the axle about the exam, but an airman who has to answer anything other than "no" or "n/a" on the form is well advised to know the consequences of his answers prior to going in the system.
 
Ask your AME not to wear white. ;)

Only partially joking. If you are otherwise healthy and don’t have any worrisome symptoms, there’s no need for any anxiety at a doctor’s office. Just relax.
 
Lindberg said:
OSA is a good example. Diabetes another. Migraines. Prior SSRI use. Unapproved allergy medicines. Etc. There are plenty of conditions that a "healthy person" could have that the FAA looks askance at. That doesn't mean get wrapped around the axle about the exam, but an airman who has to answer anything other than "no" or "n/a" on the form is well advised to know the consequences of his answers prior to going in the system.
Click to expand...
All correct there. Especially the conditions you list

Yes the FAA will hop up and down about them, but the properly informed and prepared applicant with one or more of these conditions can smooth out the process in a big way.

There is probably an Art of War saying that reminds you to know thy enemy before engaging them in battle. Dealing with FAA medical branch for the first time is the same thing.
 
@AggieMike88 wrote some great stuff above. Heed it.

Remember something about FAA medical. They’re NOT your advocate for you to be healthy like most in the medical profession.

They make lists of things that could be dangerous in a cockpit and if you say you’ve had one of them, a prescription drug, a condition using certain words, etc... it’s an immediate “the local AME can’t issue this, send ALL pertinent medical history data to OKC for review, oh and by the way... there’s a time limit. Clock is ticking.. go.”

And frankly, the initial determination is NOT usually done by a doctor at all. It’s done by, for lack of a better word, and no offense to them intended, a bureaucrat. A government employee searching for key words and tasked with gathering documentation for a doctor to review to save the doc time.

This is why you NEVER apply until you know the outcome if your local AME or one of the already mentioned AMEs has reviewed your case and told you EXACTLY what to provide, down to all needed medical records (which THEY scan for those trigger words and make YOUR doctors re-word their speculations and things they SHOULD NOT have put into their notes, with a letter explaining why it isn’t true and how they know), and even letters from doctors if you have an exceedingly difficult case to send to FAA.

You want the whole pile of paperwork proving you’re fit to be an airman ready to go the first time you apply if at all possible. Because sometimes that means the AME *can* issue in-office while the bureaucracy slowly cranks its wheels and reviews everything you send. For really tough cases, at least it will all fly past the front end worker’s desk and on to the Doc.

Their review times often take longer than the deadline to send the information if you do the back and forth “now we want this” game.

And again, as someone mentioned, a denial takes away options. BasicMed, Sport Pilot, and self-certifying in gliders. You don’t want to willingly give up those options easily. Guard them.

Hopefully that helps show why everyone says to not do the “let’s apply and see what they say” thing. That’s not the correct tactics with a known overloaded bureaucracy.

They’re not “bad” folks but think of their job more like IRS auditors than medical professionals that you’re used to who are on your side. They’re on the side of “the People” and making sure FAA gets very little egg on its face from pilots having medical issues in a cockpit. If it’s going to embarrass them that they said yes., assume it will be a “no” unless a mountain of documentation is provided to prove that it’s NOT a problem for them.

Make sense?

All that said, most folks in reasonable health, this will be a no-brainer and easy.

A good place to start is googling any prescription you’ve EVER been on. The docs in this country will prescribe all sorts of things that aren’t really necessary or are off-label as mentioned. If any come back FAA disapproved, make sure to ask the AME in the *consultation* phase about them. Not after the official FAA application has started.

A big problem if you get into medical records is this. Doc writes, “Patient might have X, Y, or Z.” Later doc figures out it wasn’t X or Y and proceeds with Z. If they didn’t write EXACTLY how they ruled out X and Y into their notes, now you have a problem with FAA. They’ll want a statement from your Doc saying it wasn’t that, and here’s how we proved it. If they didn’t and went with their gut and you got better, the proof may fall on you to have various tests done at your cost... because your insurance thinks you’re fine. They won’t pay for tests for something you don’t have.

An example. Someone I know had a heart attack. Doc told him absolutely zero damage to heart. Knowing it would be a special issuance, one of the advocate type AMEs said to go do cardiac rehab. FAA likes to see all the monitoring data collected in said rehab.

Insurance said nope. Your Doc said no damage, you do not need cardiac rehab.

Pilot wanted to fly. He paid $10,000 out of pocket for cardiac rehab anyway.

Stupid, yes. But it shows how the hoop jumping sometimes goes.
 
Yes, the current FAA aeromedical regime is a minefield of potentials gotchas and snafus. Always do a consult first before having an application go live. It can save you tens of thousands of dollars and years of waiting.
 
denverpilot said:
...And again, as someone mentioned, a denial takes away options. BasicMed, Sport Pilot, and self-certifying in gliders...
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There's no reg that says that with respect to gliders. They're subject to 61.53(b), but "unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner" is a different standard than 61.53(a)'s "unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate."
 
Palmpilot said:
There's no reg that says that with respect to gliders. They're subject to 61.53(b), but "unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner" is a different standard than 61.53(a)'s "unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate."
Click to expand...

True but I worry about lawyers and “opinion letters” changing written law to whatever the lawyer likes... today. :)

Would rather just avoid a denial, period.
 
denverpilot said:
True but I worry about lawyers and “opinion letters” changing written law to whatever the lawyer likes... today. :)

Would rather just avoid a denial, period.
Click to expand...
Me too, but that's because of BasicMed and sport pilot privileges in my case. I don't know if I will ever take up gliding or not, but I think the chances of any particular glider pilot being the first person to be subjected to a new FAA reinterpretation are pretty small unless he/she does something egregious.
 
Thanks for the responses everyone, this is really helpful.

I started the basic medxpress application just to see what kind of disclosures they were looking for and was able to answer everything with "no". I've really had no medical issues over the course of my life and tend to lead a pretty healthy lifestyle, or so I like to think. Per the advice in the thread though I'm going to seek out an optometrist and get a quick eye check done before going to the actual exam to ensure everything is good. For fun I took an online one (I know stupid), and it came back as 20/20 so that eased my worries some.

As to the elevated blood pressure, I'm not sure if there is much I can do for it prior to the exam. It's typically within the normal range, but will spike if I'm under significant stress (perhaps white coat syndrome in this case). My father gave me one of his old blood pressure machines, which I just dusted off and gave myself a check, and came back as 130/78. I'd hate to open pandoras box with making a huge deal about it with my primary care physician (who is generally dismissive of it) or if it's even an appropriate thing for a prior consultation with the AME. It sounds like the consultations are more geared for people with serious issues that they know going into the exam, to have all the paperwork ready and available.

Thanks again
 
Good idea on getting the eye exam done first and bringing the paperwork in with you. I’ve been to three different AMEs and their eye “exam” method varies. The last one was me covering my eye with my hand reading an old paper chart in a dim room. He passed me but asked me to get checked out by my optometrist and fax over the results. Next time I’ll just bring it with me to avoid the whole thing.
 
woodchucker said:
Good idea on getting the eye exam done first and bringing the paperwork in with you. I’ve been to three different AMEs and their eye “exam” method varies. The last one was me covering my eye with my hand reading an old paper chart in a dim room. He passed me but asked me to get checked out by my optometrist and fax over the results. Next time I’ll just bring it with me to avoid the whole thing.
Click to expand...

My AME, the one I have been using for a decade or more. retired last September. I found a guy but had never heard of him, and no one I knew had ever heard of him.
I did my usual physical and eye exam a month before my flight physical. No problems.
Walk into my flight physical and the first words out of the receptionist's mouth was "Full payment, before you see the doctor." Eh, rude, but OK.
Everything is fine until the eye exam. I do everything he asks, normal stuff, no issues. Then he starts throwing things at me I have never seen in an eye exam for a flight physical. Never.
I get all done and he says "My opinion is that you have a problem with your eyes. You have ten days to correct the problem or I will fail you." This is two days after Christmas.
I'm starting to get a little dubious of this guy, because he wouldn't discuss exactly what the problem is. He jumped ugly when I questioned him.
I go to my buddy, the ophthalmologist. He gives me a full Class One eye exam and tells me I'm old and fat, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with my eyes.
I take his full report back to the AME. Interestingly, there are 4 guys there who were there when I first went in.
They were all there for the same reason. The AME was of the "opinion" that there was something wrong with all of them. We started talking among ourselves, loudly, and it was a true Christmas miracle. We were all miraculously cured of our problems.
BTW: You all do know there is a mechanism in place for reporting crooked AMEs and CFIs, right?
I need to find another AME. sigh
 
JohnHendricks said:
case). My father gave me one of his old blood pressure machines
Click to expand...
If you have any inkling of hypertension, you should be having it investigated no matter what and do so soon. Flying or no flying, don’t dick around with it, don’t ignore it.

If your doctor is dismissive of it, it might be time to consider a different doctor.

One of the AMEs who participates here, Dr. Bruce, frequently reminds us that high blood pressure is a chronic disease that can do lots of damage while you are saying lying to yourself and others, “But I feel fine!”

Yeah, sure. Right up to the time you don’t due to an MI, stroke, and/or full blown CAD. Now try to work with the FAA when these happen.

Dr. Bruce has another well respected saying, “HEALTH FIRST, FLY LATER”.

Get your BP under control. NOW. Then later you can get started with flight lessons and obtaining your medical certification.
 
Shepherd said:
My AME, the one I have been using for a decade or more. retired last September. I found a guy but had never heard of him, and no one I knew had ever heard of him.
I did my usual physical and eye exam a month before my flight physical. No problems.
Walk into my flight physical and the first words out of the receptionist's mouth was "Full payment, before you see the doctor." Eh, rude, but OK.
Everything is fine until the eye exam. I do everything he asks, normal stuff, no issues. Then he starts throwing things at me I have never seen in an eye exam for a flight physical. Never.
I get all done and he says "My opinion is that you have a problem with your eyes. You have ten days to correct the problem or I will fail you." This is two days after Christmas.
I'm starting to get a little dubious of this guy, because he wouldn't discuss exactly what the problem is. He jumped ugly when I questioned him.
I go to my buddy, the ophthalmologist. He gives me a full Class One eye exam and tells me I'm old and fat, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with my eyes.
I take his full report back to the AME. Interestingly, there are 4 guys there who were there when I first went in.
They were all there for the same reason. The AME was of the "opinion" that there was something wrong with all of them. We started talking among ourselves, loudly, and it was a true Christmas miracle. We were all miraculously cured of our problems.
BTW: You all do know there is a mechanism in place for reporting crooked AMEs and CFIs, right?
I need to find another AME. sigh
Click to expand...

That’s a wild one. I think mine was somewhat different because he was trying not to fail me on the eye thing. It just wasn’t a professional setup for an eye exam. The guy I went to two years ago had me doing deep knee bends. Never experienced that before in any medical checkup.
 
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