What happened to Southwest?

luvflyin said:
I thought United had reserved seating. You get your seat assignment when you book. But whadda I know, last time I flew United was about 4 years ago.
Click to expand...
I’ve got a flight to NYC in a couple weeks. United, seat assignment, etc all done. This will be the first commercial flight in almost 8 years for me. Strange.
 
I am a die hard Southwest fan and will continue to be for a few reasons...two free checked bags, no cancellation or change fees, point to point network, decent rewards program that is actually redeemable. I have not paid out of pocket for personal travel flight since 2012 and still have more points that I know what to do with.

When I flew for work almost weekly we changed return flights over 50% of the time at the last minute and that would not have been possible or feasible on any other airline...while I agree when things go south they go down big time but in normal operations I have seen them go well above and beyond to get passengers where they needed to be vs other airlines that don't give an eff about delays or missed connections.

If you are a no status peasant yeah their system and procedures can seem whacked but once you understand the system and how to use the procedures to your advantage I would never go back to another legacy carrier unless it is a last resort.

They indeed have lost some of their heart over the years, but IMO American, Delta and United never had any.
 
TCABM said:
The trashy/in vogue SWA flyer simply self-elects to pre-board nowadays though to avoid being part of the cattle chute experience.
Click to expand...

Ugh, I forgot that "life hack" -- at Oakland the line gets about 20 deep. One or two wheelchairs and a gaggle who look fit as hell. Jerks.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Exactly. There is some dark stuff going on behind the scenes at SWA. To be fair, most majors have had to deal with those kinds of issues. My point being SWA is nothing special anymore. They are just another major airline with major airline problems.
Click to expand...

It's a shame to hear. SWA used to be my absolute favorite to ride on. Generally reliable, fun employees, and the overall "open seating" experience made it a lot easier to book short trips. (Didn't care much about the free checked bags perk since I usually travel light).

It seems the culture is slowly shifting from employees-first to profits-first.
 
My AAdvantage account number to this day is the Saber login ID I had 30+ years ago. Sabre was always the valuable asset at American finally divesting itself around 2000. Sabre also spun out Travelocity (now part of Expedia). THey're still Texas based.

They own flightexplorer.com by the way.
 
kmacht said:
When I see quotes like this it’s always just a one way street. How about some of those workers follow the accountant or engineer around once a week as well in order to understand the limitations and requirements of their job. A lot can be learned from both sides. Maybe it’s more than just money that is keeping things from happening. Usually the workers don’t want to recognize anything outside their own little world as it easier to just blame nameless and faceless other people and call it a “management problem”
Click to expand...

Absolutely, although that can often be tough to arrange for line employees. However, part of that "learning how to manage" part is finding ways to set aside time to educate line employees/supervisors on different parts of fundamental accounting so that you can put it into layman's terms and show how their decisions affect the financials. Much of the manufacturing environment revolves around measuring and impacting employee productivity and accuracy/timeliness of inventory transactions. Getting them to understand that just "forcing the system to be correct" has consequences versus following a proper procedure to make sure both sides of the ledger match up.
 
DaleB said:
Maybe it's just the trips I routinely fly
Click to expand...
I would say so. Where I live, Southwest is the go-to airline for me and numerous colleagues, as they usually have nonstops to where we need to go, and generally are cheaper than the competition, sometimes by quite a bit.
 
Larry in TN said:
No. The airplanes flown by (the original) Braniff are obsolete today, but they were mainstream when Braniff flew them. B707, B727, & B747 at the time of the oil embargo.
Click to expand...

You are correct, I have had a wrong impression for years. They failed because of deregulation, sort of. It was a one man band under a powerful CEO, and they took a very aggressive position on expansion and became hugely unprofitable.

Behind a paywall, but you get a few free articles:
The Man Who Killed Braniff – Texas Monthly
 
I was managing a software project for the military - not too big, just 70 locations and a few hundred users. The O-6 running the show had me spend time at a dozen of the locations, to reconcile the HQ vision of the business process with the reality in the field. Not a few hours, or a couple days - it was weeks on-sites. It was worth every hour; we nailed it, managed "up", and she was smart enough to learn and absorb the real world lessons. And I got massive cred with the guys in the trenches, and she got her star, too.
 
schmookeeg said:
Ugh, I forgot that "life hack" -- at Oakland the line gets about 20 deep. One or two wheelchairs and a gaggle who look fit as hell. Jerks.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that “fit as hell” is not disqualifying. Pre boarding is for people who, for whatever reason, need extra time.

Granted, stuffing too many bags into overhead compartments so you don’t have to put carry-ones under the seat in front of you doesn’t constitute “needing” extra time, but there could be valid reasons for at least some of them. I pre-boarded for a period of time after 9/11 so that I didn’t delay the flight due to being “randomly” selected for rescreening at the gate.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Keep in mind that “fit as hell” is not disqualifying. Pre boarding is for people who, for whatever reason, need extra time.

Granted, stuffing too many bags into overhead compartments so you don’t have to put carry-ones under the seat in front of you doesn’t constitute “needing” extra time, but there could be valid reasons for at least some of them. I pre-boarded for a period of time after 9/11 so that I didn’t delay the flight due to being “randomly” selected for rescreening at the gate.
Click to expand...
On commercial flights, we check as much as we can, and put our small items under the seats, using no overhead space at all. leaving, we stand up and briskly walk off the plane, after waiting for 9 hours for a bunch of sociopaths to jam/unjam everything in the overhead bins and nothing under their seats. I wish that there was an airline for non-sociopaths, but I haven't found it. it would be great to have a 'no overhead bin" airline. I can't imagine how fast on/off would be.

I need to buy a plane, people make me grouchy.
 
MIFlyer said:
On commercial flights, we check as much as we can, and put our small items under the seats, using no overhead space at all. leaving, we stand up and briskly walk off the plane, after waiting for 9 hours for a bunch of sociopaths to jam/unjam everything in the overhead bins and nothing under their seats. I wish that there was an airline for non-sociopaths, but I haven't found it. it would be great to have a 'no overhead bin" airline. I can't imagine how fast on/off would be.
Click to expand...
Try meditation.;)
 
Gemba walk / NIHITO. Ignore at your own peril.
 
MIFlyer said:
On commercial flights, we check as much as we can, and put our small items under the seats, using no overhead space at all. leaving, we stand up and briskly walk off the plane, after waiting for 9 hours for a bunch of sociopaths to jam/unjam everything in the overhead bins and nothing under their seats. I wish that there was an airline for non-sociopaths, but I haven't found it. it would be great to have a 'no overhead bin" airline. I can't imagine how fast on/off would be.

I need to buy a plane, people make me grouchy.
Click to expand...
I try to be one of the last off the airplane, I don't like being the in the crush of people. Unfortunately, my carryon does not fit under the seat, so it's got to go in the bin. But it's a small-ish carryon. Never had a problem finding space. If I've checked the bag (ugh) then it should be waiting for me when I get to the carousel.
 
RyanB said:
Which is interesting, because they used to be one of the cheapest. Nearly every time, their ‘wanna get away’ fares were the cheapest of most every competitor. I agree that those days seem to be gone. It seems they’ve gone from a so-called low cost carrier, to the leagues of one of the big three.
Click to expand...

They have not been the lowest cost for a LONG time.

I remember in the 90s headed to BWI. BIG sign, SW, $79.95 to Nashville. But that is one way. And, at the time, they quoted the air fare without the taxes and fees (it tooo Congress passing a law to stop them from doing that). So $80 one way, $160 RT, plus taxes and fees, some $240 RT. We were booked on Delta, upgraded to First, assigned seat, for $135 round trip each.

A couple of years ago, a friend was flying SAN to MSP. Delta was over $200 cheaper.

And think about it, SW does not allow their fares on the fare comparison site. If they were really the lowest price, they would WANT to be on the comparison sites.
 
Pinecone said:
I remember in the 90s headed to BWI. BIG sign, SW, $79.95 to Nashville. But that is one way. And, at the time, they quoted the air fare without the taxes and fees (it tooo Congress passing a law to stop them from doing that).
Click to expand...
In the 90s, all of the airlines did that. And it was a DOT reg in 2011 that stopped it. But SW doesn't charge extra for certain seats or for bags, which is significant on most major carriers if you don't have status.
We were booked on Delta, upgraded to First, assigned seat, for $135 round trip each.
Click to expand...
That's truly extraordinary. You must have had some super status.
 
Tantalum said:
.. at some point when most people only book their tickets purely on whatever THEY THINK is the cheapest you can't really be surprised
Click to expand...

I seldom find SW to be the cheapest.
 
luvflyin said:
I thought United had reserved seating. You get your seat assignment when you book. But whadda I know, last time I flew United was about 4 years ago.
Click to expand...

United and Delta have a "Basic" Economy. No checked bag, no advanced seat assignment.
 
Pinecone said:
And think about it, SW does not allow their fares on the fare comparison site. If they were really the lowest price, they would WANT to be on the comparison sites.
Click to expand...

does not or can not? They don’t have the feeds.

but you’re right, they’re just another big airline now, but more technologically behind.
 
Pinecone said:
United and Delta have a "Basic" Economy. No checked bag, no advanced seat assignment.
Click to expand...
I’m still trying to figure out what Basic Economy is on United. The only place “Basic Economy” as a phrase exists on the United website is under baggae rules. I booked an Economy seat for this weekend, have a seat assignment but can’t figure out what’s going on with baggage. No use calling, it’s a 90 min wait on hold.
 
murphey said:
I’m still trying to figure out what Basic Economy is on United. The only place “Basic Economy” as a phrase exists on the United website is under baggae rules. I booked an Economy seat for this weekend, have a seat assignment but can’t figure out what’s going on with baggage. No use calling, it’s a 90 min wait on hold.
Click to expand...
If I recall correctly, all it is is you are allowed no carry on bags and one personal item. Pretty much what Pinecone said.
 
murphey said:
I’m still trying to figure out what Basic Economy is on United. The only place “Basic Economy” as a phrase exists on the United website is under baggae rules. I booked an Economy seat for this weekend, have a seat assignment but can’t figure out what’s going on with baggage. No use calling, it’s a 90 min wait on hold.
Click to expand...
13C28A17-BFA0-425F-BD3A-71269756E19B.jpeg

You can select it when you search for tickets.
 
murphey said:
I’m still trying to figure out what Basic Economy is on United. The only place “Basic Economy” as a phrase exists on the United website is under baggae rules. I booked an Economy seat for this weekend, have a seat assignment but can’t figure out what’s going on with baggage. No use calling, it’s a 90 min wait on hold.
Click to expand...
https://www.united.com/en/us/fly/travel/inflight/basic-economy.html

Less expensive fare.
No full-size carry-on bag on domestic, and short-haul international, flights. Just one personal item.
No advance seat assignment. Avoid if you want to sit with a traveling companion(s).
Last boarding group boarding, which doesn't really matter since you won't have a large carry-on bag.

Works well for some people to save some money. Not so much for others. Read the restrictions carefully when booking to ensure they won't cause you any problems.

Big advantage to the airline is that the passengers in the last boarding group don't have large carry-on bags so it reduced the number of gate-check bags, particularly at the end of boarding. Helps avoid departure delays.
 
Larry in TN said:
https://www.united.com/en/us/fly/travel/inflight/basic-economy.html

Less expensive fare.
No full-size carry-on bag on domestic, and short-haul international, flights. Just one personal item.
No advance seat assignment. Avoid if you want to sit with a traveling companion(s).
Last boarding group boarding, which doesn't really matter since you won't have a large carry-on bag.

Works well for some people to save some money. Not so much for others. Read the restrictions carefully when booking to ensure they won't cause you any problems.

Big advantage to the airline is that the passengers in the last boarding group don't have large carry-on bags so it reduced the number of gate-check bags, particularly at the end of boarding. Helps avoid departure delays.
Click to expand...
But I have an assigned seat. Which is why this is so confusing.
 
murphey said:
But I have an assigned seat. Which is why this is so confusing.
Click to expand...
If it's still before check-in, it doesn't sound like you have a Basic Economy fare.

Passengers with BE fares will be assigned seats sometime between check-in and departure. Often it's done at the gate within an hour of departure time.
 
murphey said:
hm….never saw this. time to back to the website.

United is rapidly becoming as silly as Frontier.
Click to expand...

United created their "Basic Economy" fare set in 2016 to compete with the budget airlines segment, which also allowed them to appear more competitive in internet price searches.

I always make sure I don't purchase or display those, since it counts diddly towards status and upgrades are not possible.

united-basic-economy-warning.png
 
Last edited:
More and more confusing....nothing about basic economy...it may only be on certain flights and not system-wide. Adding to the confusion, my ticket has seat numbers and baggage details of 1 carryon and 1 personal item.

upload_2023-1-1_15-53-34.png
 

Attachments

  • upload_2023-1-1_15-52-41.png
    upload_2023-1-1_15-52-41.png
    45.5 KB · Views: 8
If you want a kafka-esque experience, I can suggest the new Norse Atlantic airline, which had something like 11 upsell steps for our booking to England before I threw the figurative desk and gave up.

Or, book Virgin Atlantic, and experience brain lock when you're asked if you want Delight Class, with no explanation wtf that is for the few hundro extra. I felt like I was at a massage parlor being offered a happy ending. I closed the browser. We booked United. :D
 
Without fail, one of the questions I get in class is "why doesn't [fill in the blank] update the software"?

As I explain,
1) straight conversion from X to Y (where Y is the student's favorite programming language) is usually not practical. There are tools but they aint great and there's still a huge mannual effort to clean up and test. BTDT
2) If you're going to do a conversion, you really need to step back and review the legacy system, identify what functionality is still viable, what is no longer needed, and what new functionality is needed.
3) There are times when some functionality can be upgraded or new functionality introduced but the integration effort is non-trivial. BTDT.
4) In which case, to do it right, you'll end up designing an entirely new system.
5) No matter what, it's going to be hugely expensive and take a great deal of time and by the time it's deployed, the odds are that #2 is going to be invoked again.
 
Side note about United....For historical reasons, United is the airline of choice for any Boeing travel (unless not available). So I racked up lots of miles while working at Boeing. Come 2005, I get bumped off my flight (not United) back from Airventure - but my luggage (in violation of TSA rules) made it home. I immediately headed to the United counter, ready to use my miles. Nope. United's Frequent Flier program changed the rules (again) and because I hadn't used or added to my miles in 2 years, I lost all of them.

Fast forward to this week. Booking on United, my original FF membership number is no longer valid but....Big item on the web site with my Lifetime Mileage in the 6 figures. Of course not good for anything, but why on earth would United bother to keep track of it after all this time?
 
murphey said:
More and more confusing....nothing about basic economy...it may only be on certain flights and not system-wide. Adding to the confusion, my ticket has seat numbers and baggage details of 1 carryon and 1 personal item.

View attachment 113614
Click to expand...
United is doing something in your market.

I see the Basic option dropped in flights originating from DEN when I search.

When I search for something like DFW-LAX, and click through to "Find Flights", Basic Economy magically appears.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top