What do you consider "over the fence"?

Frogs97

Frogs97

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
401
Location
Fort Worth, TX
Display Name
Display name:
Frogs97
In discussions about landings and speeds, and there are a lot of references to X speed on final and Y speed over the fence. What does that reference point mean to most of you?
 
I would consider that to be the very edge of the runway that you can use for touchdown. As in other than the displaced threshold boundary.

David
 
I have always considered it just what it implies - the airport boundary before the runway - typically a hundred or so yards before the threshold.

Yes, I know that different airports will have different boundaries, but really not that big of a difference in most airplanes.

In my experience, the 'over the fence' term seems to have been more common with old radial engine airplanes, particularly the piston propliners where you didn't fly a modern stabilized approach, but rather progressively slowing down throughout the final approach to landing. IOW, you start your final at XX speed and begin to slow it down to XX speed over the fence so you can touch down at XX speed.

I'm usually at the same speed on final (blue line in a twin) as I am over the fence. The 'fence' is typically where I start to slow down below blue line in preps to land.
 
One windy day at Goodland it was the REIL. :goofy::goofy:
And I planted the mains about 10 yards past'em...
 
About 100 yards before the end of the runway.
 
It's the point where all obstacles are clear and I can cut the power and land. After that I don't even look at the airspeed.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
 
Fearless Tower said:
I have always considered it just what it implies - the airport boundary before the runway - typically a hundred or so yards before the threshold.

Yes, I know that different airports will have different boundaries, but really not that big of a difference in most airplanes.

In my experience, the 'over the fence' term seems to have been more common with old radial engine airplanes, particularly the piston propliners where you didn't fly a modern stabilized approach, but rather progressively slowing down throughout the final approach to landing. IOW, you start your final at XX speed and begin to slow it down to XX speed over the fence so you can touch down at XX speed.

I'm usually at the same speed on final (blue line in a twin) as I am over the fence. The 'fence' is typically where I start to slow down below blue line in preps to land.
Click to expand...


Basically that.
 
When I can make the field power off is what I call over the fence. It's also where I go full flaps. But we actually have a fence at my new field, so I may have to adjust that.
 
JoeFromKS said:
It's the point where all obstacles are clear and I can cut the power and land. After that I don't even look at the airspeed.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

This. Speed over the fence should typically be "whatever".
 
When I can cut power to idle and know I have the runway made.
 
Where I learned to fly and was based for seven years, I always thought of coming over the trees as "over the fence," although they were a little close for that. Big airports have nice long clear areas at both ends; we had tall trees, a 4-lane road and an embankment up to the runway at one end, tall trees, ~100' clearing and ~250' displaced threshold at the other end.

So I guess "over the fence" would be whatever you consider Short Final, which for. E was no later than coming over the trees.
 
drotto said:
When I can cut power to idle and know I have the runway made.
Click to expand...

As a student, this was abeam the numbers in the trusty Skyhawk. Now I generally carry a little power and go to idle on shirt final (see previous post).
 
Hank S said:
As a student, this was abeam the numbers in the trusty Skyhawk. Now I generally carry a little power and go to idle on shirt final (see previous post).
Click to expand...
This honestly more what I ment. I usually carry some power till very short final. In fact at my home airport there is a stupid fence there.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
Thanks all. The class d airport I usually fly out of has a fence about 100yds, so by most accounts it literally is "over the fence". Most of the others I've been to have hangar sand such, so I was curious.
 
It's meaningless anyway. Fly your approach at proper speed and flight path. Forget the "fence". Touch down where you want. Don't land short.
 
MauleSkinner said:
This.



Unfortunately the fence has been moved back away from the runway threshold over the years, leaving people confused as to where the fence was.
Click to expand...

Uh, no. You can look at plenty of old airport photos from the 50s and the fence line was not at the threshold itself.

Again, the airplanes that have traditionally been flown with separate final, over the fence and touchdown speeds were planes like the DC-3, DC-4, B-25....etc where you fly a decelerating approach.

Over the years people have adapted the old timer term to other things which are pretty much pointless other than trying to sound cool.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Uh, no. You can look at plenty of old airport photos from the 50s and the fence line was not at the threshold itself.

Again, the airplanes that have traditionally been flown with separate final, over the fence and touchdown speeds were planes like the DC-3, DC-4, B-25....etc where you fly a decelerating approach.

Over the years people have adapted the old timer term to other things which are pretty much pointless other than trying to sound cool.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize the term was that recent in its origins.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Uh, no. You can look at plenty of old airport photos from the 50s and the fence line was not at the threshold itself.

Again, the airplanes that have traditionally been flown with separate final, over the fence and touchdown speeds were planes like the DC-3, DC-4, B-25....etc where you fly a decelerating approach.

Over the years people have adapted the old timer term to other things which are pretty much pointless other than trying to sound cool.
Click to expand...

But regardless of the origin of the term it's generally understood today to be the runway threshold, at least amongst the people I know. I think that was the point of the question (maybe not).
 
Fearless Tower said:
Well, if you want to go back to the 30s, the majority of airports in the US were cinder patches without defined runways or 'thresholds'.
Click to expand...

I guess if we're trying to define the term as it was coined, we'd need to figure out when it was coined and whether it was coined by airline guys or guys in C-3s and Wacos, as that would make a difference in where the fence was located.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I guess if we're trying to define the term as it was coined, we'd need to figure out when it was coined and whether it was coined by airline guys or guys in C-3s and Wacos, as that would make a difference in where the fence was located.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but I've never heard any of my fellow NWC members refer to 'over the fence' speeds for our Wacos. I have seen the term written in early airline/military manuals.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I guess if we're trying to define the term as it was coined, we'd need to figure out when it was coined and whether it was coined by airline guys or guys in C-3s and Wacos, as that would make a difference in where the fence was located.
Click to expand...


Why are we assuming that it represented some specific place when it was coined? It might have been just an expression, as it is now.
 
I'm over the fence if the airplane would hit the runway, or adjacent to it, regardless. Assuming I didn't add power.
 
All I know is that this is not it. :no:

l5mbbx-l5mb8b01.plane.crash.071610.bbc.jpg
 
Its where the fence is. Which is everywhere and no where.

Here is something that might be helpful. You land at 60, that is 88 feet per second, round it to 100 fps.
Now you are coming down at 600 feet per minute, divide by 60 that is 10 feet per second.
So for every 10 feet you have to come down, you eat up 100' of runway! So if the fence is 10' high and you clear it by 10', that damn fence is gonna make you land 200' further down the runway.
 
Everskyward said:
Why are we assuming that it represented some specific place when it was coined? It might have been just an expression, as it is now.
Click to expand...

The people who used the phrase to explain things to me (pre-WWII pilots) were referring to a specific place...the fence that formed the boundary of the area usable for takeoff and landing. The fence that I was to be over at a specific airspeed was the same fence I wasn't supposed to hit with the tail when I lined up for takeoff.

I'd also disagree that it's "just an expression" now. True, it's been misused and misunderstood enough to make it almost as worthless as "short final", but it still has a specific meaning.
 
MauleSkinner said:
The people who used the phrase to explain things to me (pre-WWII pilots) were referring to a specific place...the fence that formed the boundary of the area usable for takeoff and landing. The fence that I was to be over at a specific airspeed was the same fence I wasn't supposed to hit with the tail when I lined up for takeoff.

I'd also disagree that it's "just an expression" now. True, it's been misused and misunderstood enough to make it almost as worthless as "short final", but it still has a specific meaning.
Click to expand...
I doubt "the fence" was in the same place at each airport pre-WWII, that is if they had a fence at all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top