What constitutes low/med/high time to you

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Shuswap BC, Nov 9, 2019.

  1. Shuswap BC

    Shuswap BC Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Mabel lake BC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shuswap BC
    When you think about a low time pilot, moderate time ones, and high timers, what is the numbers you are thinking of?
    I'm certain we all have our own thoughts on this.
    For me less than 5,000 hours is low time, 5,000 - 15,000 is a moderate time pilot, over 15,000 I would consider high time. We never stop learning, but those first 5,000 were when I learned some critical things the hard way. Around 3,000 hours I began to believe my own BS that I had a clue what I was doing, and got a bit dangerous.
     
  2. Jamie Kirk

    Jamie Kirk Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    448
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JamieK
    Doesn’t the average pilot fly 40 hours a year? By your standards 99.99% of pilots who don’t fly for a living are low time pilots.
     
    wayneda40 likes this.
  3. Shuswap BC

    Shuswap BC Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Mabel lake BC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shuswap BC
    I don't fly for a living, but log over 200 annually on average. 40 hours a year seems like it would barely be worth it.
     
  4. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    7,047
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    Depends how you define "worth it" I suppose. 40-50 hours in a year of backcountry in my Husky would definitely be worth it, if I didn't have the time to do more.

    My kid brother has about 3500 hours of McDonnell Douglas F-18 Hornet time, 2500 of which is with night vision devices. Would that be a "low time pilot"? ;)
     
    SoCal RV Flyer and Shuswap BC like this.
  5. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    4,791
    Location:
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoonerAviator
    Yeah, I’d think you have to segregate your ranking by whether the pilot is for personal/hobby or as an occupation. For GA, I’d think sub-500 is low time, 500-2500 is mid, 2500+ is high time. Occupational is probably closer to your original stated numbers.
     
  6. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    7,119
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    Yikes. I noticed myself getting a little what you described around 3,000 at about 600 or so. I had a little chat with myself about that.
     
    Fallsrider, James331 and Shuswap BC like this.
  7. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,394
    Location:
    Illinois / Germany
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    NRG
    He’s a rookie. ;)
     
    Shuswap BC likes this.
  8. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,394
    Location:
    Illinois / Germany
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    NRG
    P.S. Off topic. Makes me wonder if my friend since kindergarten and your bro have flown together. She is instructing now in Mississippi in the T-45. She got highlighted in one of those documentaries regarding a deployment to the Gulf years ago.
     
    Shuswap BC likes this.
  9. Shuswap BC

    Shuswap BC Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Mabel lake BC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shuswap BC
    It happens to many of us I think. Had my 185 then, got flying into rivers, what a lot of fun that was. Well on a particularly calm day going into a lake I misjudged the water lets just say...aka i slapped it down hard, thinking i was still well above the lake right until i hit...i was more careful on those calm lake landings after that.
    But my real blunder was a day up on a very remote river. The actual landing went okay, taxied to a gravel bar on the river, it was mid summer and the water level was down somewhat. Being as the wind was blowing down the river with just a bit of crosswind component added in, i took off going against the current and it added more drag than i was expecting, increasing my take off distance to where i was now airborne but just barely, and no chance it would fly out of ground effect, not a big deal....if not for the decreasing radius left hand turn i was in, and while trying to make the turn, concerned my left wingtip may touch the water, i got so focused on it, i failed to notice the brush was so close on the right side until i heard the brush actually hitting my right wing. That was the day I decided that I was doing flights above my actual skill level to handle. Nothing bad happened, and I got away with it that time, but one wing tip inches from the river, and brush slapping the other wing was a wake up call about my judgment of what rivers were or were not safe to land/take off on.
     
    Fallsrider and GRG55 like this.
  10. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,394
    Location:
    Illinois / Germany
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    NRG
    I am not sure what good the segregation does. There are crappy 2000 hour pilots and talented 250 hour pilots. You have to start somewhere. I have a whopping 200 hours. But I can go 6 months without flying, get home to my plane, go flying and not kill myself or harm others. So I am low time but still can do what needs to be done to fly safe.
     
  11. Shuswap BC

    Shuswap BC Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Mabel lake BC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shuswap BC
    Sure, but just for your own thinking, what would the numbers be?
    I've seen good 50 hour guys, and terrible 5000 hour ones.
    But I still thought up what for me would constitute low/med/high time.
     
  12. Shuswap BC

    Shuswap BC Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Mabel lake BC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shuswap BC
    Great points made!
     
  13. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,508
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom
    I believe it, I see a lot of planes just sit for weeks-months...same for boats, many never seem to leave the marina. I bet there is a lot of very low time (<10 hours per year) pilots that skew the averages.


    Tom
     
    Shuswap BC likes this.
  14. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    11,175
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    More NVG time than day? Geez that guy’s a night owl.

    2,500 hrs NVG in any branch, is definitely high time. I had 1,100 hrs NVG before I retired and had the most in the company and 2nd most in the entire battalion.
     
    TCABM and Shuswap BC like this.
  15. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    24,101
    Location:
    Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ed Frederick
    Should be broken down further to hand flying time vs pushing button on/off at 500 feet. The latter is just a fancy data entry job.
     
  16. dbahn

    dbahn Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Vermont
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Bahnson
    I think you really also have to factor in what type of flying makes up your experience. The more variation of aircraft and conditions the more experience per hour. The 30,000 hour airline captain flying between familiar towered fields doesn't really have 10 times the experience level of the 3000 hour pilot whose time is obtained in a wide variety of aircraft, airfields, and flight conditions for each aircraft's capability.

    Or as the saying goes if you fly the same hour over and over again it hardly counts much in the experience column. I also think a lot of valuable ""experience is gained by conscientious instructing as well.
     
  17. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    2,691
    Location:
    KLAF
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    455 Bravo Uniform
    CFI equals medium time.

    1000 hrs high time.

    Beyond that, you’re just adding stars to the Generals.
     
  18. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    10,450
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    I personally wouldn’t consider someone with 1,000hrs to be ‘high time’. But YMMV.
     
    RyanShort1 and Shuswap BC like this.
  19. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Messages:
    2,892
    Location:
    Central AR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ARFlyer
    I’d consider myself the low end of mid time. I have roughly 2000 hours and unless I buy/build I’ll retire in 30 years with maybe 2500 hours.
     
    Shuswap BC likes this.
  20. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    10,450
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Are you not flying at the airline anymore?
     
  21. CharlieD3

    CharlieD3 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    334
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CharlieD3
    I thought "old" and "bold" were the lines of demarcation... Not necessarily hours.

    When I got my motorcycle license @ 17 on a buddy's Hodaka, I told him I wouldn't by a bike myself. I felt, on the bike, there were no laws, municipal or physical, that applied to me.

    At 30 something I had a bike... At 35 I crashed it. I was a careful, responsible, rider. I made a decision one night to try to get out of an apparently dicey situation.

    It probably felt a great deal like having one wingtip at the water, and the other slapping the brush. I didn't fare so well. I don't ride anymore.

    That story out of the way, I am a pilot.

    I have 100+ hours. I am "old" at 60+.

    I'm out of "PFR".

    I'm going to fly again soon. I will get recurrent instruction until I feel safe.

    Once I meet MY standards, I will take others with me into the air. They will feel safe with me. They will enjoy their time in the air. I will enjoy taking them. Who knows, when I finally slip the bonds of this earth, I may have 1K hours or more. Or less.

    But I will be safe. I will take rightful pride in the exercise of my license. I will try to bring others into the joy of flying.

    I will die an "old pilot."

    And that is a good thing. Hours notwithstanding.
     
    Shuswap BC likes this.
  22. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Messages:
    2,892
    Location:
    Central AR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ARFlyer
    Got offered a inspector job a few minutes from my house. Kinda hard to turn down vs traveling to CLT every few days. Starting to look for a 121 Inspector gig as that’s my experience. The bonus is I’ll be able to instruct again! :D

    If that doesn’t happen I’m shooting for a Resource Pilot slot to allow me to do checkrides and certification flights on new and interesting aircraft.
     
    RyanShort1, Shuswap BC and Ryanb like this.
  23. Shuswap BC

    Shuswap BC Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Mabel lake BC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shuswap BC
    So many good points from all of you, thus is the kind of feedback that I was looking for, this post and the many others be it about NVG and more.

    Yes, airliner time is not a good example of time being a good teacher. Someone who sits in a room doing the weight and balance, checking weather, telling them how much fuel to use, just droning along on autopilot, heck it will land itself, and never ever go to a small runway. I don't really consider airliners building time, those pilots don't even do a walk around style thorough preflight. They just expect others to have checked it over and fuel itnfor them. They don't even stand by the door, greet the passengers, check how the luggage and passengers are being loaded. They are out of touch with the actual plane, and activities going on with it. Auto throttles, autopilot that lands, it almost takes away the need for a pilot completely. I bet they would feel better if they were hands on, request the shorter runway, hand fly at 1000' agl. While I could never be an airline pilot myself, the boredom would be too much for me...I do actually admire the men and women who can tolerate the boredom, the airlines stupid rules, being away from home for extended periods instead of home in their own comfy bed with their loved ones.
    I make a monthly trip where I leave on a Tuesday, spend Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday nights in hotels, and arriving home late evening Friday...I miss my home, girlfriend, dog, and my stuff in just that one short trip per month.
     
  24. kath

    kath Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    949
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Katherine
    Low time = me
    Mid-time = me x 2
    High-time = me x 10
    All the numbers just go up over time. A matter of perspective.

    (Me = 700ish currently)
     
    GRG55, Lindberg, Ghery and 1 other person like this.
  25. kayoh190

    kayoh190 En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,915
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kayoh@190
    Wow - what a great example of someone that has no idea what an airline pilot actually does.
     
    Kritchlow, Sluggo63, alfadog and 5 others like this.
  26. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    9,210
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jordan
    He went to the dark side...:D
     
    Shuswap BC and Ryanb like this.
  27. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    9,210
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jordan
    So many wrong things in this post

    [​IMG]
     
    Shuswap BC and Doc Holliday like this.
  28. wilkersk

    wilkersk Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,469
    Location:
    Puget Sound
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    KennyW
    That's just hitting the crew rest limitation for 1 year. And, still 500hrs short of an ATP.
     
    Kritchlow likes this.
  29. wilkersk

    wilkersk Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,469
    Location:
    Puget Sound
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    KennyW
    I wonder if she knows my son. He's there now.
     
    NealRomeoGolf and Shuswap BC like this.
  30. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    11,662
    Location:
    high desert NM
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    Back when I was the one receiving resumes, I got one, and I don't remember verbatim, but it was something like, ''I am a 500 hour pilot but I fly like a 1000 hour pilot...''

    1500 hours (IFR mins) was the minimum time required to apply.
     
    Shuswap BC likes this.
  31. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    19,830
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James331
    I’d say
    Low 0-1500
    Mid 1500-5000
    High 5000+

    We had a risk assessment and there was a box to check for over 5000hrs

    Seems there is a ego to skill curve

    0-300ish the ego is down and skills are coming up fast

    Seems like around the 500-1400ish the ego went above the skill level, especially the 1000tt area

    After like 2000 seems people have had the experiences and know there will likely always be more they don’t know and once again understand the license to learn bit.

    As time goes on more experience makes for a more well rounded and better pilot, especially for pilots who keep pushing into other facets of flying and try to expand their knowledge, who are confident enough to be able to put the student pilot hat back on and say get into gliders or helicopters etc, or other areas where they don’t have experience.
     
    IK04 and Shuswap BC like this.
  32. Weekend Warrior

    Weekend Warrior Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2019
    Messages:
    233
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mr Mr
    I thinking a pilot gradually pushing him/her self is more important than a number. When I had just received my pilots license, a 7 knot crosswind made me sweat. Now (25 years and 1000 hours later) 20 knot crosswinds only get a shrug. But if I had only limited myself to less than 7 knot crosswinds, I wouldn’t feel that way now. A pilot that doesn’t push himself means the hours don’t matter.

    edit: James beat me to it!
     
  33. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    9,210
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jordan
    For those of you that own and have insurance, is there a diminishing return on hours? Like if you put on your app you have 3000TT, does the insurance company automatically cap their max deductions at 1500TT? Do they set a number and any more than that and you won’t get anymore reduction on your rate?
     
    Shuswap BC and Weekend Warrior like this.
  34. MuseChaser

    MuseChaser Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2019
    Messages:
    944
    Location:
    Central NYS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MuseChaser
    It might have a George Carlin-esque sort of delineation for some folks. George asked if we ever noticed that there were only two kinds of drivers on the road... "Morons" who drove slower than us, and "Maniacs" who drove faster than us.

    Low time - less hours than the observing pilot
    Mid time - about the same amount of hours
    High time - more hours

    I'm a low time pilot, and will always consider myself a low time pilot. It's probably healthier that way.
     
    Chris Hill and Shuswap BC like this.
  35. Weekend Warrior

    Weekend Warrior Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2019
    Messages:
    233
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mr Mr
    Good question! Mine goes down every year, flying about 100-120 hours a year (for the past few years anyway), with just under 1000 total. Guess I assumed that would keep happening, but maybe at some point it will stop?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
    Shuswap BC likes this.
  36. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    9,210
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jordan
    Yea so maybe the company says ok 5000 hours is the most deduction you’ll get and that constitutes “high time” in their eyes. Any hours after that, you don’t get a deduction.
     
    Shuswap BC and Weekend Warrior like this.
  37. Shuswap BC

    Shuswap BC Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Mabel lake BC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shuswap BC
    That sounds awesome!
    Congrats!
     
  38. Shuswap BC

    Shuswap BC Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Mabel lake BC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shuswap BC
    So enlighten me.
    My brother is an airline pilot, and two good friends, my grandfather is a retired airline pilot, and my examiner was an airline pilot, talking to them extensively, and getting to ride jump seat twice, it sure seems so. They would agree with me, and when i take them flying they all seem so thrilled to actually "be out in a real plane, doing real flying" was how my brother put it a couple of months ago when we were up in my Bonanza. My brother is older than me, and 32k hours. But he struggled with basic skills and had me land because " I will probably crash if I try it".
     
    SoCal RV Flyer likes this.
  39. Shuswap BC

    Shuswap BC Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Mabel lake BC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shuswap BC
    I get asked yearly how many current hours i have, and if i have in the last year flown with an instructor. They seem pleased that I fly a few times a year with an instructor to stay sharp, and the last year was over 200 hours.
     
  40. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    22,924
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    Question: Who cares???

    Answer to the original question: Like so many things in aviation, "it depends." You think 3000 hours is low time, but a 172 pilot who has been flying 150 hours per year for 20 years is pretty high time. Someone who has 3000 hours and just stepped into their first jet? Not so much.

    Same goes for the type of flying. I have about 2000 hours but I've managed to have quite a variety of experiences in that time. I'd consider myself "mid time" with respect to single-engine piston, but OTOH I just started flying turbines a few months ago so I'm a green rookie when it comes to stinky whiny airplanes.

    So, what's the point anyway?
     
    kayoh190 and Shuswap BC like this.