Went gliding today

gil_mor

gil_mor

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Sedona, Az
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gil_mor
Fun day!
Went to Prescott Soaring Society, AZ.
Supper nice people.
The first flight was with the CFI-G (introductory, didn't touch the stick).
Sit down, buckling up, and BOY that winch PULLS. We were in the air in NO time, felt like a catapult launch. Then like a rocket at 45 degrees climb.
I was pretty much sold right there and then.

Before the flight we were talking about stalls and spins, so as soon as we released the hook and turned - he demonstrated a stall.
The most interesting part was that unlike the buffeting in the powered plane, it felt like the nose was just going down - very smoothly. I couldn't really put my finger on the point we stopped flying.

Then - he did a wing-over stall. What a sweet sweet maneuver.
Nose goes up, right wing go down, HEY we are pointing DOWN.
I noticed I had to keep my teeth clenched so when he recovered my jaw wont open. G's and stuff.
"Pretty cool" I thought, and then he did a (short) spin.

The amazing part is that everything was so smooth, one minute we are losing some airspeed, the next it feels like we are turning a little, the next - the world is spinning around that cow that feels kinda close.
Then he recovers, doing that teeth-clenched-keep-head-straight thing again, wind is getting way loud, glider makes new noises, and I'm thinking "Vne"?
Nope, we level off and head down for landing, only to find a car driving on the dirt strip.

I thought it had to be pretty cool to be in that car and see a glider riding your 6.

That ride was done after probably 4-5 minutes.

2nd flight had better conditions but not great. We got some small thermals and stayed in the air for about 20 minutes. I realized that when the wind suddenly stops - you are out of the thermal.

Couldn't understand how he knew where to turn to find it again, but we stayed there for quite a while, so I guess he knew what he was doing.

Overall - VERY fun.
 
Welcome to soaring!!
Start now and you'll be ready for summer soaring!
 
BillTIZ said:
Welcome to soaring!!
Start now and you'll be ready for summer soaring!
Click to expand...
Thanks!

Any advices for the beginning glider student?
I skimmed the glider handbook, some interesting stuff there.

I was wondering what would be the right way to log the flights - should I use my "main" logbook? Should I get a "non SEL/MEL logbook" for glider stuff?
 
some people use a separate logbook. i did when i started but now just have a glider column in my only logbook. it doesn't really matter.

what kind of glider did you fly? there is some good soaring in that part of Arizona. Try to find a copy of Soaring for Diamonds. Joe Lincoln, sailplane pilot starting in the 50's and excellent writer and contributor to Soaring magazine, flew there.
 
tonycondon said:
some people use a separate logbook. i did when i started but now just have a glider column in my only logbook. it doesn't really matter.

what kind of glider did you fly? there is some good soaring in that part of Arizona. Try to find a copy of Soaring for Diamonds. Joe Lincoln, sailplane pilot starting in the 50's and excellent writer and contributor to Soaring magazine, flew there.
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Pretty sure its a 2-33. I've been told but I forget.
Its a beat up nice little glider, which goes well with the 56' 182 I usually fly. Dare I say Mojo?

I'll look up Soaring for Diamonds, thanks!
 
its tough to find copies but well worth it if you do. has been out of print for a while. used book stores and ebay are probably your best bet.
 
An add-on rating is easy enough and counts as a flight review.
FAA Glider handbook is a good start, I'll check my library for some good reference books for an add on rating.

The Prescott Club did have a Blanik L-13 that was great for winch launching, but those are grounded. So you may have flown a Schweizer 2-33, american iron, built in Elmira NY. 2-33s were and are the primary trainer for a lot of US glider pilots.
 
Excellent... another convert to the Dark Side... :D

Sounds like the instructor didn't waste any time showing you the fun stuff, LOL! But you didn't even mention if you got to fly it yourself at all. I hope you got some stick time; an intro, or even a first-time ride for a power pilot, should include some stick time. It's very weird at first if you're used to power, but it doesn't take long for it to grow on you. And it's not that hard- all you have to do is get more serious about all the stuff most power pilots take for granted after their check ride. :D

From your description (especially of the noises) I'm guessing it was a 2-33. High wing, tandem 2-place, rag-and-tube fuselage and empennage, with aluminum wings?

But maybe not... our 2-33, for example, definitely buffets (turbulent airflow off the wings beating around the aft fuselage and the tail) when you stall it, although the break itself is pretty mild.

For what it's worth to you, I keep two log books, but enter the glider time in the "power" logbook, also. Just my thing; and I guess it provides some redundancy in case one or the other is lost (although I also scan both to the PC).

I haven't read much else other than the handbook so far, but if you join the SSA, you will learn a lot perusing their monthly magazine.
 
Gliders are flying in it's purest form. Very cool you are interested.

I have flown in self launch motor gliders. Very eerie when the big fan quits and the prop is feathered. Very quiet. :eek:

The motor glider is cool in that you don't need a tow, and you just reset the prop and hit the starter. Good to go. ;)


I would think ridge soaring near Sedona would really be fun and challenging. Some of the most beautiful terrain I have ever seen.

https://picasaweb.google.com/104592...feat=content_notification#5622470157447199074


https://picasaweb.google.com/104592...sRgCLn7wujCs9is8gE&feat=content_notification#
 
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BillTIZ said:
An add-on rating is easy enough and counts as a flight review.
FAA Glider handbook is a good start, I'll check my library for some good reference books for an add on rating.

The Prescott Club did have a Blanik L-13 that was great for winch launching, but those are grounded. So you may have flown a Schweizer 2-33, american iron, built in Elmira NY. 2-33s were and are the primary trainer for a lot of US glider pilots.
Click to expand...

About 5 minutes after I walked in they said I should buy the L-13. It took me a minute to get them to admit it was grounded, and were just pulling my leg.

They had 3 gilders out, 2-33, 1-26 I (think), not sure about the 3rd.

Re: Went gliding today
Excellent... another convert to the Dark Side... :D

Sounds like the instructor didn't waste any time showing you the fun stuff, LOL! But you didn't even mention if you got to fly it yourself at all. I hope you got some stick time; an intro, or even a first-time ride for a power pilot, should include some stick time. It's very weird at first if you're used to power, but it doesn't take long for it to grow on you. And it's not that hard- all you have to do is get more serious about all the stuff most power pilots take for granted after their check ride. :D

From your description (especially of the noises) I'm guessing it was a 2-33. High wing, tandem 2-place, rag-and-tube fuselage and empennage, with aluminum wings?

But maybe not... our 2-33, for example, definitely buffets (turbulent airflow off the wings beating around the aft fuselage and the tail) when you stall it, although the break itself is pretty mild.

For what it's worth to you, I keep two log books, but enter the glider time in the "power" logbook, also. Just my thing; and I guess it provides some redundancy in case one or the other is lost (although I also scan both to the PC).

I haven't read much else other than the handbook so far, but if you join the SSA, you will learn a lot perusing their monthly magazine.
Click to expand...
I might be wrong about the no buffeting, since everything is/was so new - I was expecting the character of the 182 at climb power and 20-30 degrees nose up - you REALLY know when you are not flying any more.

I think I'll do the same as you re logbook - I like to keep my primary logbook home as much as possible.

The club wants you to be an SSA member when you sign in. My main issue is that I barely have time to read the AOPA magazine, so getting the SSA one might be somewhat waste of paper. But I'll look into it.

Gliders are flying in it's purest form. Very cool you are interested.

I have flown in self launch motor gliders. Very eerie when the big fan quits and the prop is feathered. Very quiet. :eek:

The motor glider is cool in that you don't need a tow, and you just reset the prop and hit the starter. Good to go. ;)


I would think ridge soaring near Sedona would really be fun and challenging. Some of the most beautiful terrain I have ever seen.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1045925...70157447199074


https://picasaweb.google.com/1045925..._notification#
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Nice pics!

Haven't seen many gliders around Sedona, maybe because the terrain wont allow off-airport landing, maybe because I haven't looked.

Powered glider might be a different story.

I must agree about the beauty of Sedona -
4 years ago I took a red biplane ride over it. 2 weeks later I became a resident. Can't seem to have enough of those red rocks :)
 
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Soaring magazine is completely different than AOPA. Hardly any major advertising and basically no paid staff writers (except the editor). All writing is submitted by members which means that topics (and writing quality) varies. I enjoy it much more than any other aviation magazine, but of course I'm a soaring junkie.

It's very likely that the club uses the SSA Group Insurance policy which means that in order to fly club gliders you must be an SSA member. Quite often club membership will include SSA membership for that reason.

Leah and I honeymooned in Sedone, yes very beautiful.
 
I have an "expensive" gift certificate (which I bought years ago on a half off TV show for absolutely no reason, seemed like a good "date" idea at the time) for a glider ride in Nevada somewhere. Thanks for reminding me to make a weekend trip out of the whole thing! I have called them and they do have a CFI and an aerobatic glider. It would be "just for fun" and not for a rating because as far as I know there isn't any gliding to be done within 100 miles of my home airport back here in California.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I have an "expensive" gift certificate (which I bought years ago on a half off TV show for absolutely no reason, seemed like a good "date" idea at the time) for a glider ride in Nevada somewhere. Thanks for reminding me to make a weekend trip out of the whole thing! I have called them and they do have a CFI and an aerobatic glider. It would be "just for fun" and not for a rating because as far as I know there isn't any gliding to be done within 100 miles of my home airport back here in California.
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Williams, Byron, and Hollister.

http://www.ssa.org/sport/map/map.html
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I have an "expensive" gift certificate (which I bought years ago on a half off TV show for absolutely no reason, seemed like a good "date" idea at the time) for a glider ride in Nevada somewhere. Thanks for reminding me to make a weekend trip out of the whole thing! I have called them and they do have a CFI and an aerobatic glider. It would be "just for fun" and not for a rating because as far as I know there isn't any gliding to be done within 100 miles of my home airport back here in California.
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Where are you going in Nevada?
 
BillTIZ said:
Where are you going in Nevada?
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I forget but they say it is the best gliding airport in the USA (of course they do). They have a ton of gliders, even one with two seats in the back - was gonna take my BF with me. I'm torn though; the one without two people in the back does aerobatics and the CFI would write that in my log book, what a cool log book entry that would be! So no boyfriend, most likely.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I forget but they say it is the best gliding airport in the USA (of course they do). They have a ton of gliders, even one with two seats in the back - was gonna take my BF with me. I'm torn though; the one without two people in the back does aerobatics and the CFI would write that in my log book, what a cool log book entry that would be! So no boyfriend, most likely.
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Sounds like Minden NV, south of Reno. SoaringNV (Soaring Envy) has a great reputation. Another operation there may have closed. Enjoy!!

I'm at Jean (0L7) NV, south of Las Vegas.
 
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yea my understanding is Soaring NV is the only operation at Minden now.
 
BillTIZ said:
Sounds like Minden NV, south of Reno. SoaringNV (Soaring Envy) has a great reputation. Another operation there may have closed. Enjoy!!

I'm at Jean (0L7) NV, south of Las Vegas.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is it. Soaring Envy in Minden. How close are you to Minden and gosh I wonder how far it is from me too. I know I looked it up once but I've got the aviation bug pretty bad now which would motivate me to go.
 
BillTIZ said:
Sounds like Minden NV, south of Reno. SoaringNV (Soaring Envy) has a great reputation. Another operation there may have closed. Enjoy!!

I'm at Jean (0L7) NV, south of Las Vegas.
Click to expand...

Wait but if they close then my "no expiration date" $300 value gift certificate becomes worthless!
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Yes, that is it. Soaring Envy in Minden. How close are you to Minden and gosh I wonder how far it is from me too. I know I looked it up once but I've got the aviation bug pretty bad now which would motivate me to go.
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I have flown to Minden a couple of times. It is just over the ridge from TVL. Follow HWY 50. There is a great restaurant on the field. It is probably about an hour in a 172 from Petaluma and beautiful views of Tahoe.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Hollister is 110 miles away and over 2 hours to get there. So 4 hours of driving each time.

Williams is even further at 135 miles.

Byron is the closest at 77 miles away and just over an hour and a half.

Sorry but this is a bit far for me.
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You're a pilot and those are airports. What is this "driving" time you speak of? :D
 
John221us said:
I have flown to Minden a couple of times. It is just over the ridge from TVL. Follow HWY 50. There is a great restaurant on the field. It is probably about an hour in a 172 from Petaluma and beautiful views of Tahoe.
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An HOUR? That would be cool. It took me 3.1 hobbs in a 152 to get to Monterey and back so I find that hard to believe. And honestly even if you're right I can't really afford to do a cross country, buy glider stuff, and schedule it all in advance and hope there is no icing / snow / storms / headwinds / turbulence. Just not a good idea to fly to an "appointment." Driving would take forever, yes, but it is cheaper. My flights are limited to fun / touring around. I've only once flown somewhere to do something, and with Nevada, I'd need mountain training.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
An HOUR? That would be cool. It took me 3.1 hobbs in a 152 to get to Monterey and back so I find that hard to believe. And honestly even if you're right I can't really afford to do a cross country, buy glider stuff, and schedule it all in advance and hope there is no icing / snow / storms / headwinds / turbulence. Just not a good idea to fly to an "appointment." Driving would take forever, yes, but it is cheaper. My flights are limited to fun / touring around. I've only once flown somewhere to do something, and with Nevada, I'd need mountain training.
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It might be a little over an hour, but not much (1 hour 20 minutes by Foreflight). Winter is the best time, due to density altitude. You do need the weather to cooperate. You need about 9,500 to clear the pass. You aren't landing in the mountains and you have plenty of time to gain the altitude. Watch the winds over the pass. If they are greater than about 30 KTS it would be a no go for me (not enough power in a 172 to handle major downdrafts). This year there have been many days I would do it, including today. On these things, I would fly if I can, but I am ready to get in the car and drive. You are over terrain for about 20 minutes in a single engine piston and that does bother some people I know.
 
John221us said:
It might be a little over an hour, but not much (1 hour 20 minutes by Foreflight). Winter is the best time, due to density altitude. You do need the weather to cooperate. You need about 9,500 to clear the pass. You aren't landing in the mountains and you have plenty of time to gain the altitude. Watch the winds over the pass. If they are greater than about 30 KTS it would be a no go for me (not enough power in a 172 to handle major downdrafts). This year there have been many days I would do it, including today. On these things, I would fly if I can, but I am ready to get in the car and drive. You are over terrain for about 20 minutes in a single engine piston and that does bother some people I know.
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Not only that, but how accurate are the "forecasts" of winds aloft? Your no go is 30kts. What is it "normally"? Are certain times of day better than others? I won't deny that with the Sierras so close and affordable, I "want" to go but am not sure I have the skills and training.
 
Hi,
You check the forecast and monitor your track and ground speed as you go. Morning is usually best for winds, but winds aren't always an issue, even in the afternoon. Try it with someone who is familiar with the trip. It is not as scary as you think. The views of Lake Tahoe will rival that of the Bay Tour.
 
John221us said:
Hi,
You check the forecast and monitor your track and ground speed as you go. Morning is usually best for winds, but winds aren't always an issue, even in the afternoon. Try it with someone who is familiar with the trip. It is not as scary as you think. The views of Lake Tahoe will rival that of the Bay Tour.
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You say this like I have so many people to ask! Building up pilot friendships takes time. But I'm working on doing just that.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
You say this like I have so many people to ask! Building up pilot friendships takes time. But I'm working on doing just that.
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Yes, it takes time, but you have time. You have already made many friends and you can always ask. Some of my best flights have been on the spur of the moment.
 
John221us said:
Yes, it takes time, but you have time. You have already made many friends and you can always ask. Some of my best flights have been on the spur of the moment.
Click to expand...

Had my first spur of the moment flight on Saturday and it was by far the best. I got to that point by "hanging around the airport" since now I know more people and my new school is more hang out-ish. Plus I know the weekend airport manager and he just takes me on rounds with him for no reason (showing hangars, helping at the gas pump, greeting new pilots, doing airport stuff).
 
So, I joined the club and flew twice today, total time - about 12 minutes in the air. On the 2nd flight I did most everything other the first 200 ft and down. Feels good so far, but its early to say.
The annoying part is that some of the pilots get an hour in the air, and when I go up - the wind goes DOWN.

Oh well, I'm the "Head-wind-both-ways-guy".
So I guess in the glider world it translates to "Sink-guy".

Nice people, fun relaxing time, I enjoyed it.
 
gil_mor said:
So, I joined the club and flew twice today, total time - about 12 minutes in the air. On the 2nd flight I did most everything other the first 200 ft and down. Feels good so far, but its early to say.
The annoying part is that some of the pilots get an hour in the air, and when I go up - the wind goes DOWN.

Oh well, I'm the "Head-wind-both-ways-guy".
So I guess in the glider world it translates to "Sink-guy".

Nice people, fun relaxing time, I enjoyed it.
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That's great! It's habit-forming, isn't it? Have you figured out which trainer you're flying yet? :wink2: :D

You keep mentioning wind in correlation to lift... unless you're talking about ridge or wave lift, though, wind is not a requirement for lift. All you need is heat on the ground warming "parcels" of air, which rise up as they grow warmer than the surrounding air. It's not a vortex of wind or anything like that (although dust devils can mark thermals for sure), and it's not the same as terrain-induced wind flow. Picture a lava lamp... thermals work the same way, in essence. Sink is sort of like anti-lift most of the time... cooler lumps of air descending once they reach a certain level. Sink often occurs around the periphery of a thermal; it's part of the cycle.
Precisely how these parcels stay (mostly) separated from the rest of the air is something I'm still trying to understand, but believe me, it ain't wind you're looking for when you are hunting for thermals. Feels like wind sometimes, but it isn't.
But however you look at it, when the vario shows lift, if you just slow down to min sink speed and keep a good coordinated turn going, you will gain altitude. Think you're hooked now? First time you gain 1000 feet on your own, you'll be like a junkie. :D
 
rottydaddy said:
That's great! It's habit-forming, isn't it? Have you figured out which trainer you're flying yet? :wink2: :D

You keep mentioning wind in correlation to lift... unless you're talking about ridge or wave lift, though, wind is not a requirement for lift. All you need is heat on the ground warming "parcels" of air, which rise up as they grow warmer than the surrounding air. It's not a vortex of wind or anything like that (although dust devils can mark thermals for sure), and it's not the same as terrain-induced wind flow. Picture a lava lamp... thermals work the same way, in essence. Sink is sort of like anti-lift most of the time... cooler lumps of air descending once they reach a certain level. Sink often occurs around the periphery of a thermal; it's part of the cycle.
Precisely how these parcels stay (mostly) separated from the rest of the air is something I'm still trying to understand, but believe me, it ain't wind you're looking for when you are hunting for thermals. Feels like wind sometimes, but it isn't.
But however you look at it, when the vario shows lift, if you just slow down to min sink speed and keep a good coordinated turn going, you will gain altitude. Think you're hooked now? First time you gain 1000 feet on your own, you'll be like a junkie. :D
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Re Wind - I think about it as air particle movement.
Other people fly - air particles goes UP.
I'm flying - they go DOWN.
But thanks for the correction, I like the lava-lamp analogy - make sense.

Oh, and we have 3 gliders, I fly the 2-33, we also have 1-24 and 1-26.

I think you are right about the gaining 1000ft on my own, right now I feel that I spend 9 hours for 12 of flying, but I do enjoy the time off (I've been working 7 day week since 2008).
 
gil_mor said:
Re Wind - I think about it as air particle movement.
Other people fly - air particles goes UP.
I'm flying - they go DOWN.
Click to expand...

LOL, fair enough... and I know that feeling. I'm usually making 3 frustrating sleigh rides while our best glider pilot is off over the horizon for an hour or two, when even the buzzards are scratching. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!
I was just worried, for a moment, that you were mistaken about something important, like the power pilot I know who thought gliders- off tow, mind you- behave like kites (into wind= more lift). I can only imagine what he thought the difference is between a glider and a power plane without power. :dunno:

Oh, and we have 3 gliders, I fly the 2-33, we also have 1-24 and 1-26.
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Good. I don't know the 24, but I think you will like the 26. If you've never flown any single-pilot plane, that is another neat milestone.

I think you are right about the gaining 1000ft on my own, right now I feel that I spend 9 hours for 12 of flying, but I do enjoy the time off (I've been working 7 day week since 2008).
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It's tough when you work a lot (or not working and no money coming in), especially with soaring, as a nice VFR day is not always a "worthy" day. And it takes more than one person to go flying. But there's so much "real" flying packed into even a short glider flight, a little goes a long way.
 
I'm guessing he means 1-34, Schweizer's Standard Class single seater, which I've heard is a real joy to fly. My club in Iowa used to have one, which is now actually owned by a member of my club in Kansas.

The 1-24 was a one-off which I believe is hanging in a museum somewhere.
 
tonycondon said:
I'm guessing he means 1-34, Schweizer's Standard Class single seater, which I've heard is a real joy to fly. My club in Iowa used to have one, which is now actually owned by a member of my club in Kansas.

The 1-24 was a one-off which I believe is hanging in a museum somewhere.
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Damn it.
I'll get it right one day, its not that hard. Or at least I thought its not.
Thanks though.
 
lol no worries. typos happen.

The 1-24 was actually pretty interesting. a 1-23 fuselage with custom built wings that included internal mass balance. The glider also featured a sliding weight that was used for trim instead of draggy trim tabs. It is hanging at the Wings over the Rockies Museum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweizer_SGS_1-24
 
Glider Training is interesting in that the training typically has very little to do with the sport of Soaring.

For Training, in order to get you done in a reasonable amount of time and cost, you usually only learn how to launch, enter the pattern and land.

It is rare to get very much soaring time because...
1. you need soaring weather.
2. You really don't have to know how to soar to fly safely, you just don't fly as long.
3. someone else is often waiting for the trainer when you are done.
4. The Tow plane is often waiting for his next tow.
5. It isn't required that you do any soaring to get a glider rating.
6. Sure we teach you the Theory but you will probably have at best only a couple hours of actually soaring when you get your rating.

As a result more than any other rating the learning (and the fun) really begin once you get your glider rating and start flying with other gliders.

I tend to average about 4 hours per flight. I did one 7+ hour flight last year.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
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