Went gliding today

[gil_mor]

Glider Training is interesting in that the training typically has very little to do with the sport of Soaring.

For Training, in order to get you done in a reasonable amount of time and cost, you usually only learn how to launch, enter the pattern and land.

It is rare to get very much soaring time because...
1. you need soaring weather.
2. You really don't have to know how to soar to fly safely, you just don't fly as long.
3. someone else is often waiting for the trainer when you are done.
4. The Tow plane is often waiting for his next tow.
5. It isn't required that you do any soaring to get a glider rating.
6. Sure we teach you the Theory but you will probably have at best only a couple hours of actually soaring when you get your rating.

As a result more than any other rating the learning (and the fun) really begin once you get your glider rating and start flying with other gliders.

Its starting to feel that way. We have a 1hour limit on all the club's gliders, when I go in the air - I'm back in less then 10 minutes, when someone else goes with the same 2-33 - he'll find thermals and stay for at least 30 minutes.
I guess I'll just have to be patient, which I usually am. I just got used to "Plane is full of fuel, see you when ever you come back".

I tend to average about 4 hours per flight. I did one 7+ hour flight last year.

Yea, showoff

 

[gil_mor]

Wow what a day!
Got there pretty early, conditions weren't that good, which was good for me - because I need to get a bunch of flights in and focus on pattern work, etc.
People were getting 5-10 minute flights. I go up with CFIG and - 28 minutes!!!
That vario can go up too!
We were in and out of thermals for a while, never got to high but who cares, I got to actually soar instead of just glide.
Total flights today: 3
Total time: More then an Hour.
Very, very happy.

Day's accomplishments:
Airspeed/horizon/pitch control.
At first I was fixating on the airspeed indicator instead of the horizon.
I just got done with my IR, so that could partially explain it.
By the end of the first flight - I got a good idea what "45mph" looks like, what "55" etc.

Day's challenge:
Coordinated turns.
I guess I'm really used to Step on the ball.
That darn red yarn goes to the Opposite side!
Also, you have to really push on that rudder, but if you over or under do it - the glider would whistle and be angry at you.
Not only that, but when you are in a good tight turn - the rudder would actually work as an elevator, and you have to really compensate for it.

CFIG says - think of it as your dog's tail - if you have to put your foot down - DON'T STEP ON HIS TAIL.

I have to admit that after so long learning to fly instruments, its fun to learn to fly an Aircraft!

So yea, I had a good day today, thanks for asking

 

[brcase]

Very cool, congrats getting to soar some. It took me a while to figure out the yaw string, I knew how to put the tail where I wanted, just could not seem to make intuitive sense of where the yaw string was telling me to put it. Finally I just realized I needed to move the tail over until it is behind that yaw string. Perhaps that will make sense to you, maybe it wont.

Also you may notice that in a steep turn the plane will seem to be coordinated but the yaw string will be slightly to the outside of the turn (toward the up wing). Best explaination I have heard is that in a steep turn the yaw string shows some of the vertical movement of air (descent of the glider through the air) even though the glider is coordinated through out the turn. I don't recall ever flying a glider with both a ball and a yaw string to test this theory.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[denverpilot]

Also, you have to really push on that rudder, but if you over or under do it - the glider would whistle and be angry at you.

You also learn to hear it in a powered airplane, after getting used to using your ears in the glider.

 

[rottydaddy]

That flight sounds a lot like my second dual flight: strong lift, and we stayed aloft for 1.5 after release. At one point, after about 40 minutes of turning, turning, turning in hot sunshine, I had to level the wings; wasn't used to it yet. But nothing really builds those attitude and coordination skills like working thermals; you can really explore the envelope.

Pretty soon you might be ready for the "open canopy drill"... that's a lot of fun, and very useful (to teach you to relax and just keep flying if the canopy happens to come ajar, especially on tow). You do it off tow, at altitude, and with a 2-33 anyway, it's very easy to maneuver with it open. And did I mention fun? Like flying an old-timey open-cockpit glider. Be sure to ask your instructor about that.

You're probably right that your instrument time is a slight handicap right now... but you'll get over that, and you will definitely find yourself "flying the wing" much more when you are behind a propeller. In VMC, you are a lot better off using the view outside (and the seat of your pants) for attitude, airspeed and coordination reference.

 

[BillTIZ]

Yaw string and which way to step. We are in the desert. Deserts have snakes. Snakes can only hang on with their mouth, always step on the head of a snake.

We had a great ridge/wave/thermal day yesterday. SW winds aloft were forecast at 17knts at 6k MSL. The local ridge was working early, wave developed from the far ridge SW of the airport. Thermals developed late in the day.

Everyone was staying up their full hour. We had to call the last two down with sunset time warnings.

I was on tow pilot duty, a lot of Xwind landings, 10-15knt cross, 60-90 degrees off runway heading. 19 tows for the day.

 

[BillTIZ]

Open canopy drill? Really? Never done it.

But please explain why one would risk potential damage to the canopy or twisting of the frame or total loss of the canopy inflight by intentionally opening a canopy inflight that it is not designed to do.

Landing on tow is a great training item, and it is in the PTS.

 

[rottydaddy]

Open canopy drill? Really? Never done it.

But please explain why one would risk potential damage to the canopy or twisting of the frame or total loss of the canopy inflight by intentionally opening a canopy inflight that it is not designed to do.

Landing on tow is a great training item, and it is in the PTS.

Never did a landing on tow (although I know how it's done). One of these days I want to try it. I don't think 47N would be a great place to try it for the first time, though... in fact, if we had to do it, we'd probably go over to Solberg or Somerset, where there's a little more elbow room (and a lot more turf to land on).
At 47N, landing on tow would mean coming in over pretty tall trees onto a 50' X 3300' (useable) paved runway with lights along both edges(there isn't enough room on the grass for landing on tow since they installed a PAPI right in the middle of the longest part between taxiways, and even without that obstacle, there's a taxiway about halfway down).
I'm not too keen on landing on that paved runway off tow, let alone on tow. Might have to some day, but I won't be happy about it.

As for flying our 2-33 with the canopy open in flight: you don't just fling it open ( a little at a time, and you don't let go until it is completely open), you don't open it above best l/d speed, and the canopy has a welded steel frame with a cross brace at the bottom, and a steel cable tether so it only opens so far and couldn't depart completely, even if the hinges failed (no quick-release). I can't vouche for any other glider, but with a 2-33 in good condition, it's not a problem at all. We discourage people from leaning on the canopy frame when getting into the front seat, but it could probably take quite a bit of even that sort of abuse.

 

[rottydaddy]

Glider Training is interesting in that the training typically has very little to do with the sport of Soaring.

For Training, in order to get you done in a reasonable amount of time and cost, you usually only learn how to launch, enter the pattern and land.

It is rare to get very much soaring time because...
1. you need soaring weather.
2. You really don't have to know how to soar to fly safely, you just don't fly as long.
3. someone else is often waiting for the trainer when you are done.
4. The Tow plane is often waiting for his next tow.
5. It isn't required that you do any soaring to get a glider rating.
6. Sure we teach you the Theory but you will probably have at best only a couple hours of actually soaring when you get your rating.

As a result more than any other rating the learning (and the fun) really begin once you get your glider rating and start flying with other gliders.

I tend to average about 4 hours per flight. I did one 7+ hour flight last year.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

It is kind of a funny thing with the PP-G... "real" soaring- cross-country stuff where there is a fairly good chance you will land out, or high-altitude wave and ridge soaring- is like another world entirely from what's required for the rating. But most new glider pilots do the right thing and train up for that level, even though there's no separate requirements to satisfy the FAA.
And some of us are just not good enough yet to stick our necks out that far, especially when limited by average conditions that are not ideal.
Maybe one day I'll catch the legendary "ocean breeze wave" over 47N and get into some real trouble...
But until then I am happy enough to stay within sight of 47N and its nearest neighbors, especially on a good day. I'd really like to break 2 hours this season... then maybe I'll think about working farther afield.

 

[tonycondon]

awesome gil_mor! welcome to the wonderful sport of Soaring!

 

[gil_mor]

Very cool, congrats getting to soar some. It took me a while to figure out the yaw string, I knew how to put the tail where I wanted, just could not seem to make intuitive sense of where the yaw string was telling me to put it. Finally I just realized I needed to move the tail over until it is behind that yaw string. Perhaps that will make sense to you, maybe it wont.

Also you may notice that in a steep turn the plane will seem to be coordinated but the yaw string will be slightly to the outside of the turn (toward the up wing). Best explaination I have heard is that in a steep turn the yaw string shows some of the vertical movement of air (descent of the glider through the air) even though the glider is coordinated through out the turn. I don't recall ever flying a glider with both a ball and a yaw string to test this theory.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

Thanks Brian!
I see what you are saying about putting the tail behind the yaw string, so far my brain knows it, but the feet still don't get it. Interesting info about the steep turn, I'll try and remember that.

You also learn to hear it in a powered airplane, after getting used to using your ears in the glider.

Interesting Nate, I'm very curious about that, I'll have to check it out the next time I fly the 182. I wonder if the ANR is going to help or not.

That flight sounds a lot like my second dual flight: strong lift, and we stayed aloft for 1.5 after release. At one point, after about 40 minutes of turning, turning, turning in hot sunshine, I had to level the wings; wasn't used to it yet. But nothing really builds those attitude and coordination skills like working thermals; you can really explore the envelope.

Pretty soon you might be ready for the "open canopy drill"... that's a lot of fun, and very useful (to teach you to relax and just keep flying if the canopy happens to come ajar, especially on tow). You do it off tow, at altitude, and with a 2-33 anyway, it's very easy to maneuver with it open. And did I mention fun? Like flying an old-timey open-cockpit glider. Be sure to ask your instructor about that.

You're probably right that your instrument time is a slight handicap right now... but you'll get over that, and you will definitely find yourself "flying the wing" much more when you are behind a propeller. In VMC, you are a lot better off using the view outside (and the seat of your pants) for attitude, airspeed and coordination reference.

Lucky you! I don't know about open canopy drill. Long ago in a country far far away I've seen a powered glider lose his canopy mid air, only to have it sit on hit T tail - rendering his elevator and rudder useless. They crash landed not far away. They walked away, but for a while there we thought they were goners.

Open canopy drill? Really? Never done it.

But please explain why one would risk potential damage to the canopy or twisting of the frame or total loss of the canopy inflight by intentionally opening a canopy inflight that it is not designed to do.

Landing on tow is a great training item, and it is in the PTS.

Well, we have only a winch, and when I asked about stuck cable - they said - Dive to the winch, and hope the winch guy cuts the cable quick.

Re yaw string - I understand the analogy, but lets just say that Indiana Jones and I have something in common, and thinking about diamondbacks while flying might be counterproductive

Glad you guys have a good day, we had a so-so day. The mountain waves were too far, and the thermals would take you away from the field, so everyone played it safe.

I was on tow pilot duty, a lot of Xwind landings, 10-15knt cross, 60-90 degrees off runway heading. 19 tows for the day.

Wow, 19 Xwind landings with a tail-wheel.
I envy you. Talk about happy feet!

awesome gil_mor! welcome to the wonderful sport of Soaring!

Thanks Tony. It is indeed a fun sport.

When I realized I'm having issues with coordinate turns I told myself "Stop pretending you know everything about flying. You dont. just because you can fly a Cessna doesn't mean you can fly a glider. Open your eyes, open your ears and Learn".

As soon as I got rid of the "I'm a pilot" frame of mind and got the "I'm a student pilot" - I started Really having fun.
Yet another life lesson by aviation.

 

[1200AGL]

I have to admit that after so long learning to fly instruments, its fun to learn to fly an Aircraft!

So yea, I had a good day today, thanks for asking

Congratulations! You're hooked.
Good luck with your training.

As others have said, the rating is just the beginning. I took the checkride in July and the more I fly, the more I realize how much I have to learn.

 

[tonycondon]

When I realized I'm having issues with coordinate turns I told myself "Stop pretending you know everything about flying. You dont. just because you can fly a Cessna doesn't mean you can fly a glider. Open your eyes, open your ears and Learn".

As soon as I got rid of the "I'm a pilot" frame of mind and got the "I'm a student pilot" - I started Really having fun.
Yet another life lesson by aviation.

with this attitude you will learn to fly gliders very quickly. i took the same approach and picked it up very quickly.

 

[gil_mor]

You also learn to hear it in a powered airplane, after getting used to using your ears in the glider.

So yesterday I was supposed to fly with a friend that couldn't make it.

I wasn't going anywhere anyway so I figured - Power off 180s.
Like 12 of them. I do enjoy it.
I was thinking about what you said Nate, and sure enough, if I'm really uncoordinated - its there. Especially on slips.

Very cool.

Now if I can actually put it within the 0-200 ft mark. Not easy.

 

[denverpilot]

I was thinking about what you said Nate, and sure enough, if I'm really uncoordinated - its there. Especially on slips.

Very cool.

Isn't it? It's like all of a sudden you have new ears once you've done some soaring. Especially since all my soaring was in a leaky, noisy, 2-33. You could hear everything you were doing in that thing.

I suppose the guys flying the fancy glass gliders don't hear as much. Kinda like having a car with no air conditioning and the windows open, versus a quiet sealed-up fancy car.

 

[gil_mor]

I guess this is my gliding blog for now.

The weekend was GREAT!

I only got 1 flight per day, but what flights.

Saturday was pretty exciting. We got into a thermal right after takeoff. Kept it turning and watched the altimeter hit 8,000, then 9,000, then 10,000. At that point the CFI and I decided to just have fun and play. Did a few stalls, nose-circles around a point. Then started heading back.

As we headed back, I ran into a thermal and asked the CFI to work it - he said go for it.

Got to 11,000!
I was really proud of the fact I felt it, I planned it and worked it on my own.

Then we really headed back - a lot of people waiting.
48 minutes and 11,000 - so much fun.

Sunday was different - I had to really WORK the thermals. Keep it in 45 degrees, fight for every inch of lift.
We had the 1-26 flying in the same area and we used each other to find thermals.

At some point I saw a bird and told the CFI "Look - a hawk".
He had a quick look and said - "Its not a hawk, its a bald eagle! If you follow him - he'll tell you where the thermals are".

Sure enough I get closer and closer and wwoooofff we are in the thermal, together. The 1-26 joins us and now 1 bird and 2 gliders are climbing in a thermal.

I'm not a super emotional guy but I wont forget that moment. That was special. Soaring with the birds.

The thermal mushroomed out at 8,000 and the three of us went our own way. I couldn't find anything other then a small cumulus not much above us. We estimated the wind speed and direction and got a little lift behind him. Not a ton, and had to really work our way back to 8,000.

I saw the 1-26 gaining some altitude and decided to join him. That was a good lesson in traffic rules with gliders. We got WAY closer then I would have been ok with on my own, but CFI said its ok, just not any closer.

Ground call and said we have 15 more minutes, I confirmed that we have 50 minutes and started heading back.

CFI says - we have a lot of altitude to lose, spins?

Yeehhaa... He did spin entrance and recovery, then said the words I was hoping for.
"Want to try one?"

It feels so much better when you are the one who controls it!
I say spin, glider spins. I say stop, glider stops. I pull up, CFI says less G. I pull less - wings stays connected, glider level. SO MUCH FUN.

Back in the pattern we had a ton of thermals and had to do a 360 with full spoilers. Had it been a solo ride - I would have just landed long.

Max altitude - probably 9,500. Flight time 60 minutes.

I do most of the flying on my own now, the CFI helps me with the planning in the pattern (hard!) and some in the flare if needed.

I'm getting the feel for the rudder - a TON when entering to turn, almost nothing afterwords. It doesn't respond very well to "corrections" later in the turn. If I get the right amount entering the turn all is good. If I use too little rudder then try to fix it - I get the "boo" whistle. Getting better though.

Best, weekend, ever!

 

[tonycondon]

nice!!

 

[rottydaddy]

 

[denverpilot]

Awesome write up. I remember a similar experience chasing down a raptor to find lift with a CFI also. Almost identical but it wasn't a bald eagle. And feeling similarly about getting to share "his" thermal with him. Way cool.

I need a rich benefactor who wants me to go flying on their dime so I can stop this silly "going to work" thing. I'd definitely take up soaring again if I had time.

 

[gil_mor]

Thanks guys!

Awesome write up. I remember a similar experience chasing down a raptor to find lift with a CFI also. Almost identical but it wasn't a bald eagle. And feeling similarly about getting to share "his" thermal with him. Way cool.

I need a rich benefactor who wants me to go flying on their dime so I can stop this silly "going to work" thing. I'd definitely take up soaring again if I had time.

Nate - right there with you. If your rich benefactor has a friend - I'm here. And I'm nice!

Seriously though, I still work the same amount of hours I did before soaring, but in 5 days instead of 7. So far, no regrets. Its worth it.

 

[denverpilot]

Seriously though, I still work the same amount of hours I did before soaring, but in 5 days instead of 7. So far, no regrets. Its worth it.

I'm six minutes from my maintenance window that's open, if I need it, until 03:30 Local. 22:00-03:30... with "critical" systems only available for patching after 01:30.

I do miss being paid hourly, sometimes.

 

[gil_mor]

I'm six minutes from my maintenance window that's open, if I need it, until 03:30 Local. 22:00-03:30... with "critical" systems only available for patching after 01:30.

I do miss being paid hourly, sometimes.

Ouch.

!Fun