We are closer than ever, please contact your representative

Dav8or said:
I think you are being a little disingenuous with your "best case scenario" here. The people that are actively going on about abolition of the 3rd class medical very much want to keep flying whatever the hell they are flying now. That means Bonanzas, Senecas and even PC-12s. Oh yes, there will be more than just, "perhaps one other". If the FAA said, OK, no more 3rd class, but only two seats and no more than 125hp, would that satisfy everyone here?

It is true that deaths on the ground as a result of a GA plane crash are rare, but we live in a world of lawyers and progressives. It is a fact that time to time people do get killed on the ground randomly from a GA crash, or forced landing. This is enough for people to demand "change" and they will likely get it. Whatever is accomplished with this new "driver's license medical" will likely be reversed over night and everyone will have to meet 2nd class standards.

I'm all for the demise of the 3rd class medical and hope everyone writes their congress creatures, but I'm just saying that IF it actually comes to pass that the 3rd class medical does fade into history, I expect it all to eventually end up worse in the end. It's just the country we live in now. The majority are now dependent on lawyers, government and the media to "fix" things.

:(
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That is an excellent point, and one I had not considered.

Just when I thought I could not become more cynical and skeptical, I am proved wrong. lol
 
jsstevens said:
I don't doubt that there are AMEs who simply use it for unreportable income. But most? Really? Mine takes cash or check, but he doesn't have to deal with credit card costs (Jay, what do you pay to process credit cards these days?). It is a side practice for him as he had (until he sold it) a regular family practice where he is still employed. The aviation practice is separate.
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I, too, am going to an AME with a stand-alone, pilots-only practice. As he told me, this is his retirement plan, to provide flying money.

He's a nice enough chap, and I don't fault him for using the system to keep himself in fun money. It's perfectly legal, and I would do the exact, same thing, were I in his shoes.

But that's a far cry from approving of the system that permits this sort of abuse. He is pocketing $125 every time Mary and I stroll in the front door, cash or check only. Unlike every other doctor's visit, he won't bill us, nor will he accept credit cards. (This isn't a slam on him. This has been the standard practice of every AME I've used, over the last 22 years.)

His assistant takes my blood pressure, tells me it's borderline high (where it's been for 22 years), I look through the view master, she fetches the doc, we talk about his Baron, and I cut him a check.

It's a complete waste of money and time. And it's keeping good people from flying.

The bottom line reality is that I can drive my motorhome in Houston rush-hour traffic without so much as a doubletake, but I can't fly my homebuilt 2 - seater without seeing an M.D. That is just silly, and this regulation needs to be loosened.

And, for the first time in my life, we've actually got a hero in Congress pushing to fix this. Let's support him!
 
jsstevens said:
I got the following response within about 2 minutes:
Thank you for taking the time to contact me. Your correspondence has been received and I welcome the opportunity to address your concerns. Hearing directly from constituents such as yourself is truly an honor, and your input is much appreciated.
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Sounds pretty much like the response I got from Debbie Stabenow when I wrote her last year re: GAPPA. I sent her another email today about S.571. I'm not holding my breath though.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I, too, am going to an AME with a stand-alone, pilots-only practice. As he told me, this is his retirement plan, to provide flying money.

He's a nice enough chap, and I don't fault him for using the system to keep himself in fun money. It's perfectly legal, and I would do the exact, same thing, were I in his shoes.

But that's a far cry from approving of the system that permits this sort of abuse. He is pocketing $125 every time Mary and I stroll in the front door, cash or check only. Unlike every other doctor's visit, he won't bill us, nor will he accept credit cards. (This isn't a slam on him. This has been the standard practice of every AME I've used, over the last 22 years.)

His assistant takes my blood pressure, tells me it's borderline high (where it's been for 22 years), I look through the view master, she fetches the doc, we talk about his Baron, and I cut him a check.

It's a complete waste of money and time. And it's keeping good people from flying.

The bottom line reality is that I can drive my motorhome in Houston rush-hour traffic without so much as a doubletake, but I can't fly my homebuilt 2 - seater without seeing an M.D. That is just silly, and this regulation needs to be loosened.

And, for the first time in my life, we've actually got a hero in Congress pushing to fix this. Let's support him!
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I don't disagree that the system, as compared to other endeavors like driving, is inconsistent and probably useless. Not to mention the impact on pilots who don't go to the Doctor because of fear.

Where I balk at what you've written here and elsewhere is the idea that any doc who participates supports the system as is for a profit motive. Some probably do. I know mine is dedicated to getting people through the system and helping them fly, and the FAA system frustrates him more than it frustrates me. He gave me quite an earful last medical of the unprecedented amount of back up documentation they've been demanding on things that used to just issue. I also know both from his interactions with me and his interactions with other pilots (his AME practice office doesn't bother to close doors during exams and I can hear him from the waiting room) he REALLY wants the pilots to both be healthy, and get their medicals.

There are rarely large groups of people who are uniform in their motivations. Except pilots who are all cheap, whiney, rich guys. Right? :wink2:

John
 
StinkBug said:
My point was more along the lines of "if you were going to stand up in front of an FAA board, or committee or whatever, and present a case for getting rid of the 3rd class medical, what would that case be?
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Here's what I'd tell the Board:
"Have you folks been eating a Western diet? If so, you have coronary artery disease if you're old enough to fly. That makes you ineligble to fly. Your standards are decades out of sync. It used to be thought that the greater the stenosis, the greater the risk of rupture and sudden incapacitation. It's now known that the most vulnerable plaques are in the 30% to 50% range--a range that you don't test for and produces no symptoms. On the other hand, when symptoms do develop the artery owner has demonstrated the stability of the plaque and now has information to make him or herself "Heart Attack Proof". The kicker is, you certify the vulnerable plaques every day because there are no symptoms, but deny those with stable plaques who arrest the disease progression through diet and exercise."​

dtuuri
 
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ggroves said:
No. I'm 6'-5", 215. LSA's are a tight fit. 2 adults, and I'm planning on how much fuel to unload. I've flown both the Piper and the Cessna. The closest one to rent is 40 miles away from here and there is just one and its $$$ per hour. It's inside the SFRA. The next closest is 50 miles away, and at a towered airport. I don't want to own again, if I'm not going to travel in it, or fly IFR.

Triple bypass grand dad in the Class A motor home flying down the interstate is a far bigger risk.

There are numerous 172's, Cherokees, and Diamonds available locally.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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There are pre-bypass, pre-diabetic, fatarse, unhealthy SOBs out there with 3rd class medicals flying around right now.

It's impossible to prove what didn't happen. How many medical-related pilot incapacitations were prevented by the existence of the third class medical? How many accidents-waiting-to-happen didn't even bother applying because they knew they weren't healthy enough?

We can't answer that question.

But one we can answer is that the 3rd class medical has done an abjectly lousy job of predicting which pilots will suffer an in-flight incapacitation since those still happen once in a blue moon.

Aside from the make-work aspect of it, I think the 3rd class medical simply sucks at plucking unhealthy pilots from the pool until after they have suffered an attack or event or have been diagnosed with a disqualifying condition elsewhere. And there is far too little judgment left to AMEs after that point as your case proves.
 
petrolero said:
Aside from the make-work aspect of it, I think the 3rd class medical simply sucks at plucking unhealthy pilots from the pool until after they have suffered an attack or event or have been diagnosed with a disqualifying condition elsewhere. And there is far too little judgment left to AMEs after that point as your case proves.
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All true -- but let's face it, PREVENTING those attacks, and promoting the health of pilots, isn't really the FAA's business. They're in the "protect the [perceived] public safety by keeping medically unfit pilots on the ground" business. Also, would it really make much of a difference if they were on the side of better health for pilots? Many if not most coronaries (for example) happen without warning, and unless the person has certain characteristic or suspicious symptoms and/or risk factors, the tests that would detect the underlying disease wouldn't be performed anyway.

The most important reason IMHO, from the community's standpoint, for getting rid of the 3rd class medical is to remove a disincentive to pilots with symptoms to seek medical care. But that wasn't even mentioned in the boilerplate letter on the EAA site -- probably because it carries little weight.
 
jsstevens said:
I don't disagree that the system, as compared to other endeavors like driving, is inconsistent and probably useless. Not to mention the impact on pilots who don't go to the Doctor because of fear.

Where I balk at what you've written here and elsewhere is the idea that any doc who participates supports the system as is for a profit motive. Some probably do. I know mine is dedicated to getting people through the system and helping them fly, and the FAA system frustrates him more than it frustrates me. He gave me quite an earful last medical of the unprecedented amount of back up documentation they've been demanding on things that used to just issue. I also know both from his interactions with me and his interactions with other pilots (his AME practice office doesn't bother to close doors during exams and I can hear him from the waiting room) he REALLY wants the pilots to both be healthy, and get their medicals.

There are rarely large groups of people who are uniform in their motivations. Except pilots who are all cheap, whiney, rich guys. Right? :wink2:

John
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I'm fairly certain that most AMEs have good intentions, and are trying to be helpful and kind.

But if you think they don't view the 3rd class medical as easy pickings from low hanging fruit, well, I've got some land to sell y'all... lol
 
Bill Jennings said:
Next word, boat. More social, no medicals, you can fix it yourself, and the family will actually WANT to go with you.
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Yea, but try using that comfortably for more than 5 or 6 months of the year in New England:nonod:

In the Bahamas............sure, the boat is the way to go, but where I live, a plane makes much more sense from November to April-------and even in the summer months, you are MORE restricted by the weather than even flying VFR, let alone IFR.
 
dtuuri said:
Here's what I'd tell the Board:
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And I'd tell the board that I've been flying and doing flight instruction for over 40 years without needing a medical but as yet haven't crashed my glider into a schoolyard full of kids.

I'd also tell the board that having a rather minor case of non-malignant skin cancer is no reason to make me go through a full-blown and exhaustive stress test every year.

Jim
 
Jay Honeck said:
I'm fairly certain that most AMEs have good intentions, and are trying to be helpful and kind.

But if you think they don't view the 3rd class medical as easy pickings from low hanging fruit, well, I've got some land to sell y'all... lol
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Some do, some don't. It's the broad brush "all do" that I object to. I know from personal experience at least 2 who don't.

John
 
Interesting thought about the proposed driver's license rule. I read a bit about it on the AOPA website and there would be limitations.

It would allow for VFR, or IFR flight in any plane with six or fewer seats and a gross weight not more than 6,000 lbs. Also you would be restricted to flight 14,000 ft and below and no greater than 250 knots. These rules suit the majority of us just fine, but what about the others with home built speedsters and guys with turbos?

Would the third class medical be eliminated or would it remain? If the 3rd class is done away with, guys that want to fly in the flight levels would have to get a second class medical it seems. I guess they'll have to hash this out if and when this ever becomes a reality. The FAA has already told congress to take a flying leap on previous legislation, so I'm not holding my breath any great changes any time soon.
 
Dav8or said:
Interesting thought about the proposed driver's license rule. I read a bit about it on the AOPA website and there would be limitations.

It would allow for VFR, or IFR flight in any plane with six or fewer seats and a gross weight not more than 6,000 lbs. Also you would be restricted to flight 14,000 ft and below and no greater than 250 knots. These rules suit the majority of us just fine, but what about the others with home built speedsters and guys with turbos?

Would the third class medical be eliminated or would it remain? If the 3rd class is done away with, guys that want to fly in the flight levels would have to get a second class medical it seems. I guess they'll have to hash this out if and when this ever becomes a reality. The FAA has already told congress to take a flying leap on previous legislation, so I'm not holding my breath any great changes any time soon. [/QUOTE]





You are missing the whole point in the bolded.

The legislation, if passed it its current form, makes it automatically legal for airman to fly without a medical in the confines of the paramaters listed.

The FAA could not take any enforcement action against an airman if they flew without a medical within the spelled out law.
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If congress passes the law, the FAA has no choice.
 
jsstevens said:
One thing I will say: the proposed sleep apnea rules motivated me to get my weight under control. I've lost >60 lbs since November of 2013 and I feel so much better!
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Congratulations! That is impressive.
 
My medical is due this month. I suppose I should just wait until the end of the month. They will have this passed and I won't have to worry about it.:rolleyes:
 
MBDiagMan said:
My medical is due this month. I suppose I should just wait until the end of the month. They will have this passed and I won't have to worry about it.:rolleyes:
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You might as well pick up that lottery ticket while you're at it.
 
If it passes I just hope it isn't put in the same signing stack as the Keystone pipeline.:)
 
Currently, if I'm not mistaken, you're not able to fly into Canada with a sport pilot rating due to not having a medical. I think that you're limited in which islands in the Caribbean you can visit also. I wonder how those rules will change of half of GA doesn't have medicals.
 
Anybody receive a real reply from your congresscritters yet? I received the auto reply from both the representative and senators but not a lick of real response.
 
The government has our credit card info, they have our phone info, they have our google searches and soon they will have our medical records. They have what we put in the "cloud" backup system (photos etc). They have our tax returns. They have our banking information. They have our email. But its ok. We can trust our government not to use it against us and to keep it from falling into the wrong hands.
 
jsstevens said:
One thing I will say: the proposed sleep apnea rules motivated me to get my weight under control. I've lost >60 lbs since November of 2013 and I feel so much better!
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That's nothing. About 3 years ago I lost 180 pounds ...


...


... 20 pounds of me and 160 pounds of her. :goofy:

Jim
 
Flymeariver said:
Anybody receive a real reply from your congresscritters yet? I received the auto reply from both the representative and senators but not a lick of real response.
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Strangely enough.. All the other times I wrote Sen Enzi, Sen Barasso and Rep Lummis, I got a auto reply with a day or so and a written reply within a few weeks.....

This time I have not heard a peep from any of them...:confused::confused:..

It is like to servers in DC have been hacked...:rolleyes2:
 
N801BH said:
Strangely enough.. All the other times I wrote Sen Enzi, Sen Barasso and Rep Lummis, I got a auto reply with a day or so and a written reply within a few weeks.....

This time I have not heard a peep from any of them...:confused::confused:..

It is like to servers in DC have been hacked...:rolleyes2:
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I see Sen Barasso is one of the named co-sponsors of the bill in the Senate so I assume he at least would be onboard.
 
StinkBug said:
Ok, I will admit that I haven't been part of the aviation community very long, so I don't really understand this issue at all. Why do we want to get rid of the 3rd class medical? Seems to me that people should have a certain level of fitness in order to fly, and after getting my medical I'm surprised the bar is so low. Someone explain how getting rid of this will make aviation better or safer in any way, cause I dont get it.
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Because people like me that have no debilitating conditions are sitting on the ground scratching our heads over the incompetence of the FAA's aeromedical group.
 
StinkBug said:
Thanks for all the personal attacks and assumptions about me. Somewhere in there was some actual reasoning, which is what I was looking for.

BTW, I'm what many people consider middle aged, not a teenager with no brain. As I said, I asked the questions because up til now all I've seen is a bunch of whiney bitching from pilots wanting their lives made easier for them, and I was hoping to get some real information on why the medical was a bad thing. Apparently if you poke the bear enough, you get crapped on, but also get some valid arguments besides whining and bitching.
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There is also a much more compelling reason to rid the 3rd class medical:

I had sleep apnea for years, but refused treatment because I knew it would be insanely expensive to keep flying. How many year of my life did I lose because of something that when properly treated is a non-issue?

More importantly, during that time, all of the FAA's concerns about that medical concern still existed. I was a higher risk for narcolepsy, heart attack, sudden death, etc. But because I hadn't been treated or diagnosed, hey, the FAA can sit back and pretend I'm safe.

Eliminate the 3rd class, and I would have gotten my CPAP 10 years ago. Instead, it took getting grounded because of something as benign as a couple of kidney stones every few years that don't sit still long enough to be measured in the same place every 90 days to cause me to realize I might as well get the treatment.

As for the stones - I can feel one coming a few days away. Its very painful and as someone that flies purely recreationally, I could avoid flying easily without sustaining an attack midair. That said, I have driven myself to the hospital in the middle of an attack, and as painful as it is, I didn't lose consciousness or go careening off the side of the road....

So why am I grounded?
 
After reading all these posts I am more concered about going in and taking my physical for fear of failing!! I feel healthy enough to pass but it really doesn't feel like they will let me, almost like they have already decided my fate. I'm Really disappointed right now
 
Flymeariver said:
Anybody receive a real reply from your congresscritters yet? I received the auto reply from both the representative and senators but not a lick of real response.
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Send in a form letter and you get a form response. Unless you wrote something original, form letters like this are not weighted very heavy. They know it was super easy to do and required little effort, or thought on the sender's part. It's kind of like a city council meeting where the next guy gets up to speak and just says, "Yeah, what he said." and then the guy after that just says, "Ditto". Everybody rolls their eyes and those speakers are discounted.

That's not to say that email campaigns like this one are worthless, it's just that each letter only carries about 1/4 the weight of a real letter. I can't remember how it goes exactly, but most legislators give different priority to constituents communications. Something like an original hand written letter carries most weight, followed by a phone call, then an original email and after that there's all the form emails, letters and faxes. Those are pretty much spam to them, but they do add up to an overall yay, or nay opinion on a bill.

Basically a staffer isn't going to spend much time, or effort responding to spam.
 
Dav8or said:
Send in a form letter and you get a form response. Unless you wrote something original, form letters like this are not weighted very heavy. They know it was super easy to do and required little effort, or thought on the sender's part. It's kind of like a city council meeting where the next guy gets up to speak and just says, "Yeah, what he said." and then the guy after that just says, "Ditto". Everybody rolls their eyes and those speakers are discounted.

That's not to say that email campaigns like this one are worthless, it's just that each letter only carries about 1/4 the weight of a real letter. I can't remember how it goes exactly, but most legislators give different priority to constituents communications. Something like an original hand written letter carries most weight, followed by a phone call, then an original email and after that there's all the form emails, letters and faxes. Those are pretty much spam to them, but they do add up to an overall yay, or nay opinion on a bill.

Basically a staffer isn't going to spend much time, or effort responding to spam.
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"Contact" section of my congressman's website recommended sending an e-mail over a hand written letter because of security concerns with the congressional post office snail mail might take weeks or even months to be delivered to the congressman's office. I would agree tho' that a personally written e-mail expressing the constituents own thoughts would carry more weight than just another canned form e-mail. And when you compose the e-mail keep it positive and respectful, you catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar. That said I'd guess even forwarding a canned e-mail would be better than nothing, numbers matter. OTOH I'd assume the more effort the constituent went to to contact his representative to express his thoughts the more likely the constituent is to VOTE.
 
I got my first response back from my senator....


Dear Ben,
Thank you for taking the time to contact me about aviation issues. It is good to hear from you.

I appreciate hearing your support for S. 571, the Pilot's Bill of Rights 2 Act, introduced by Senator Jim Inhofe (R-OK). You will be pleased to know that I am an original cosponsor of this bill. On February 25, 2015, S. 571was referred to the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation.
Ben, too often, our government settles for more regulations rather than smarter regulations. Americans in the aviation community and across our nation should not have their lives and livelihoods impacted by unnecessary, burdensome federal regulations. Please know that I will keep your support for this legislation in mind as I continue my work in the Senate.

Thanks again for taking the time to contact me. I value your input.

John Barrasso, M.D.
United States Senator
 
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I received only the canned responses.

Anyone know the status of the bill?

Edit: Never mind. I downloaded a cool Android app called "Congress" that tells me that it has been referred to the committee of Commerce, Science, and Transportation.

The app let's you set up notifications. I will now get notified when there is any new action on this bill. Kewl...
 
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Jay Honeck said:
I received only the canned responses.

Anyone know the status of the bill?

Edit: Never mind. I downloaded a cool Android app called "Congress" that tells me that it has been referred to the committee of Commerce, Science, and Transportation.

The app let's you set up notifications. I will now get notified when there is any new action on this bill. Kewl...
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Which Congress app was it?
 
Have received two canned responses from three emails. One was just a generic I'm working for you, the other said they would read my question then have an answer...
 
I just received a real live human phone call today. I worked night shift so I was sleeping, but the staffer left a voicemail addressing me by name and thanking me for the input and said that my representative is planning on supporting the bill once it gets to a vote.

Kevin Cramer, R-ND
 
I apologize if I missed it, but I would really like to hear Dr. Chien's thoughts on this. I realize that he is part of the medical establishment for which this might not be an advantage, but Dr. Chien has always seemed to be honest and objective. I think he would offer an intellectually honest take on the whole thing.
 
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