We are closer than ever, please contact your representative

KaiGywer said:
I just received a real live human phone call today. I worked night shift so I was sleeping, but the staffer left a voicemail addressing me by name and thanking me for the input and said that my representative is planning on supporting the bill once it gets to a vote.

Kevin Cramer, R-ND
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One of the advantages of living in a state with 5 constituents per congress critter.

:goofy:
 
timwinters said:
One of the advantages of living in a state with 5 constituents per congress critter.

:goofy:
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Are you suggesting there's only five people residing in the state of North Dakota? For your information the whole state is represented in congress by only one congressman "at large".
 
peerlesscowboy said:
Are you suggesting there's only five people residing in the state of North Dakota? For your information the whole state is represented in congress by only one congressman "at large".
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And by two senators who are also members of congress...so that allows for 15 people! Are you claiming there is more than that?

joke

noun

1. something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act:

He tells very funny jokes. She played a joke on him.
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sense of humor

Noun

1. the trait of appreciating (and being able to express) the humorous, a trait seldom displayed by the curmudgeons of online pilots' boards.
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timwinters said:
And by two senators who are also members of congress...so that allows for 15 people! Are you claiming there is more than that?
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And so Tim, are your "congresscritters" on board with the Pilots Bill of Rights 2? I believe most of the ones from the rural states you make jokes about are :yes:
 
MBDiagMan said:
I apologize if I missed it, but I would really like to hear Dr. Chien's thoughts on this. I realize that he is part of the medical establishment for which this might not be an advantage, but Dr. Chien has always seemed to be honest and objective. I think he would offer an intellectually honest take on the whole thing.
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Dr Chien has always been opposed to third class medical reform. Initially he opposed the AOPA proposal on the basis that his ego was bruised because he was not consulted prior to submission. Then he hung on the coat tails of those who were proposing a CDL medical which would have been just as strict as the current third class but would not have had the SI route if declined. When he realized that the tide was turning against him he pretended to support some sort of reform and even posed as an initiator of it.
The truth is that he makes his living from the current system and if it went away he would no longer need to provide the 'invaluable' service that he does to those that are caught in this iniquitous system which he supports.
The real truth is that we do not need a Third Class Medical of any kind. The only people who profit from it are the AME's and the FAA bureaucrats. Congress is recognizing this and we should all get behind them and support their efforts to lessen the power of the medical establishment and the long standing AME/FAA ripoff that we have all had to endure for so long.
Stephen.
PS Dr Chien banned me for a month for saying this on AOPA and was supported by AOPA admin for doing so. That tells you who is making money from this and whether they have the interests of the private pilot at heart.
 
StinkBug said:
Ok, I will admit that I haven't been part of the aviation community very long, so I don't really understand this issue at all. Why do we want to get rid of the 3rd class medical? Seems to me that people should have a certain level of fitness in order to fly, and after getting my medical I'm surprised the bar is so low. Someone explain how getting rid of this will make aviation better or safer in any way, cause I dont get it.
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Because the current system is rife with corruption and abuse and needs to be swept away.

If you remember the SMO meet-and-greet, and my "every 6 months a wild Jack*** appears" story, You'll see a very good example of why the 3rd class needs to go away.
 
Heretic! BAN HIM!!! :stirpot: Burn him at the stake!

I have no dog in this fight but I'm always wary of people who consider themselves beyond question. It's usually a sign of overwhelming arrogance or a cover for insecurity.

Bonanza said:
Dr Chien has always been opposed to third class medical reform. Initially he opposed the AOPA proposal on the basis that his ego was bruised because he was not consulted prior to submission. Then he hung on the coat tails of those who were proposing a CDL medical which would have been just as strict as the current third class but would not have had the SI route if declined. When he realized that the tide was turning against him he pretended to support some sort of reform and even posed as an initiator of it.
The truth is that he makes his living from the current system and if it went away he would no longer need to provide the 'invaluable' service that he does to those that are caught in this iniquitous system which he supports.
The real truth is that we do not need a Third Class Medical of any kind. The only people who profit from it are the AME's and the FAA bureaucrats. Congress is recognizing this and we should all get behind them and support their efforts to lessen the power of the medical establishment and the long standing AME/FAA ripoff that we have all had to endure for so long.
Stephen.
PS Dr Chien banned me for a month for saying this on AOPA and was supported by AOPA admin for doing so. That tells you who is making money from this and whether they have the interests of the private pilot at heart.
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Bonanza said:
Dr Chien has always been opposed to third class medical reform. Initially he opposed the AOPA proposal on the basis that his ego was bruised because he was not consulted prior to submission. Then he hung on the coat tails of those who were proposing a CDL medical which would have been just as strict as the current third class but would not have had the SI route if declined. When he realized that the tide was turning against him he pretended to support some sort of reform and even posed as an initiator of it.
The truth is that he makes his living from the current system and if it went away he would no longer need to provide the 'invaluable' service that he does to those that are caught in this iniquitous system which he supports.
The real truth is that we do not need a Third Class Medical of any kind. The only people who profit from it are the AME's and the FAA bureaucrats. Congress is recognizing this and we should all get behind them and support their efforts to lessen the power of the medical establishment and the long standing AME/FAA ripoff that we have all had to endure for so long.
Stephen.
PS Dr Chien banned me for a month for saying this on AOPA and was supported by AOPA admin for doing so. That tells you who is making money from this and whether they have the interests of the private pilot at heart.
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You keep saying that Bruce is motivated by financial interests without a shred of evidence to that effect. If you have such evidence, it's on you to post it, otherwise it reflects much more poorly on you than on Bruce.

Also I think you misrepresent his position on 3rd class reform. When I followed the RB medical forum my impression was always that he was in favor of reform - specifically something modeled on the Aussie CDL system - but that he was against asking for the 3rd class medical to go away completely because he didn't think it was politically doable and that such a proposal would stand in the way of reform that might actually become reality. Also he has several times alluded to accidents involving PPL holders operating under light sport rules in which medical incapacitation was implicated but the NTSB didn't attribute the accident to a medical cause. IOW he seems to imply that if we try to argue that relaxing the medical requirements for PPs flying under LSA rules has not led to an increase in medically caused accidents, we're likely to lose that argument when push comes to shove. It's not clear to me whether he actually favors some degree of medical oversight for recreational GA pilots or whether he just doesn't see a practical way to eliminate it. But he has always been against creating less restrictive "4th class medical" standards for certain operations, even when some folks have suggested that. An odd position for someone whose primary motivation is to protect his income as an AME, wouldn't you say?
 
Bill Jennings said:
So far, an automated response from my congressman, and zippo from the representatives.
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Ok, a week later and I get a personalized response from one rep. Although he hasn't read the bill, he will consider my viewpoint when he does.

:dunno:
 
Bill Jennings said:
Ok, a week later and I get a personalized response from one rep. Although he hasn't read the bill, he will consider my viewpoint when he does.
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Nine days later, I also received a response from my House rep. It was written, I assume, by his LA (legislation assistant), because it shows considerable familiarity with the bill. It is unlikely that the other staffers, who see after most constituent correspondence, could have written it.

The letter eagerly points out that

"As a proud member of the General Aviation Caucus and the Civil Air Patrol Caucus, I know the important role Iowa pilots and the aviation industry play in our state's economy."

It then adds facts about the bill that I did not know:

"As you know, Rep. Sam Graves (MO-6) introduced H.R. 1062, which would amend the Pilot's Bill of Rights to revise the third class medical certification regulations issued by the FAA. In addition, this bill would establish accreditation flexibility and improve the appeals process for pilots. This bill has been referred to the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure for further consideration."

Still waiting for the two senators.
 
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azure said:
You keep saying that Bruce is motivated by financial interests without a shred of evidence to that effect. If you have such evidence, it's on you to post it, otherwise it reflects much more poorly on you than on Bruce.
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I don't have access to Dr Chien's financial records, but he has abandoned his anesthetic and pain practice in favor of aero-medical so I can assume that it is financially worth his while.

Also I think you misrepresent his position on 3rd class reform. When I followed the RB medical forum my impression was always that he was in favor of reform - specifically something modeled on the Aussie CDL system - but that he was against asking for the 3rd class medical to go away completely because he didn't think it was politically doable and that such a proposal would stand in the way of reform that might actually become reality. Also he has several times alluded to accidents involving PPL holders operating under light sport rules in which medical incapacitation was implicated but the NTSB didn't attribute the accident to a medical cause. IOW he seems to imply that if we try to argue that relaxing the medical requirements for PPs flying under LSA rules has not led to an increase in medically caused accidents, we're likely to lose that argument when push comes to shove. It's not clear to me whether he actually favors some degree of medical oversight for recreational GA pilots or whether he just doesn't see a practical way to eliminate it. But he has always been against creating less restrictive "4th class medical" standards for certain operations, even when some folks have suggested that. An odd position for someone whose primary motivation is to protect his income as an AME, wouldn't you say?
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It is good that he has people like you on this board to speak for him. He refuses to come and post here because he does not have the authority to ban or delete the posts of those who disagree with him. He regularly visits this board and reads the posts, he just won't post here presumably because people have the right to disagree with him. Unlike the red board where he is in control and can rule over his empire without fear of contradiction or accountability for his previous public statements.
Stephen.
 
Bonanza said:
I don't have access to Dr Chien's financial records, but he has abandoned his anesthetic and pain practice in favor of aero-medical so I can assume that it is financially worth his while.

It is good that he has people like you on this board to speak for him. He refuses to come and post here because he does not have the authority to ban or delete the posts of those who disagree with him. He regularly visits this board and reads the posts, he just won't post here presumably because people have the right to disagree with him. Unlike the red board where he is in control and can rule over his empire without fear of contradiction or accountability for his previous public statements.
Stephen.
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I do recall traces of a "God" complex whenever his opinion was challenged.
 
Bonanza said:
I don't have access to Dr Chien's financial records, but he has abandoned his anesthetic and pain practice in favor of aero-medical so I can assume that it is financially worth his while.
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But it's a huge leap from that to saying that his position on the issue is motivated by greed or even tainted by a conflict of interest. Casting aspersions based on a POTENTIAL conflict does not invalidate the argument, just as (to allude to an ongoing scandal in climate science) being funded by corporate interests doesn't mean that the results of your research are automatically to be assumed to be tainted by bias.
It is good that he has people like you on this board to speak for him. He refuses to come and post here because he does not have the authority to ban or delete the posts of those who disagree with him. He regularly visits this board and reads the posts, he just won't post here presumably because people have the right to disagree with him. Unlike the red board where he is in control and can rule over his empire without fear of contradiction or accountability for his previous public statements.
Stephen.
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Speak for him? Not at all, obviously I can't. I'm just proposing an alternate view that, in my opinion, more accurately represents what he has stated in his postings. I'd much rather Bruce come on back and explain his position in his own words, but he's decided not to do that, and that's his right. I think you are correct, he wants the power to censor and ban. He's a complex guy. He is a great AME but will not allow others to challenge him on his own turf and he has a very thin skin when it comes to insults.

You're understandably bitter against Bruce for banning you, but badmouthing him here will not help your cause. Have you tried complaining to the Red Board MC? Suggested any improvements to the format? One possibility might be to split the medical forum into an "expert forum", run by Bruce as he sees fit, and a "general medical discussion forum" like the one we have here where anon posting is allowed, but someone else moderates. Just a couple of random ideas on how to be more constructive, worth all that you paid for them. ;)
 
Bonanza said:
I don't have access to Dr Chien's financial records, but he has abandoned his anesthetic and pain practice in favor of aero-medical so I can assume that it is financially worth his while.

[snip]
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Abandoned his practice or retired from his practice?

What I do know about Bruce is I had an issue and reached out to him on email. He provided a significant amount of help for which I offered to pay him consulting fees (which I believe he earned). He declined any payment at all. So I, personally, doubt it's all about the money based on my own experience, not hearsay.

John
 
jsstevens said:
Abandoned his practice or retired from his practice?
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Yeah.. I thought he considered himself virtually retired. Based on my experiences, which included lots of e-mail consultation and an in-person medical, and the amount he charged, I don't think any doctor would consider that a replacement for his regular practice.
 
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"I'm outta here"......"Oh please, please come back", rinse, repeat.

10 years of Red/Blue board drama condensed into 1 sentence.
 
I'm thinking Dr. Bruce would still have plenty of business if this went through. There would still be people with medical issues needing First, Second, and Third class medicals for the type of flying they do.
 
ggroves said:
"I'm outta here"......"Oh please, please come back", rinse, repeat.

10 years of Red/Blue board drama condensed into 1 sentence.
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This discussion is interesting. Almost like Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde, we seem to be discussing two different people.

One is the on-line Hyde. I've had the misfortune of crossing him, and IMHO he's one of the most irrational and unpleasant people I've run into online. This experience seems to be fairly common.

The other is the off-line Jekyl. Most people who have interacted with him personally and professionally speak of him in glowing terms.

As Spock would say, "Fascinating".

In another 25 years, there will probably be a medical term to describe this phenomenon.
:)
 
Jay Honeck said:
This discussion is interesting. Almost like Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde, we seem to be discussing two different people.

One is the on-line Hyde. I've had the misfortune of crossing him, and IMHO he's one of the most irrational and unpleasant people I've run into online. This experience seems to be fairly common.

The other is the off-line Jekyl. Most people who have interacted with him personally and professionally speak of him in glowing terms.

As Spock would say, "Fascinating".

In another 25 years, there will probably be a medical term to describe this phenomenon.
:)
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Nothing was worse then Bertie the Bunyip and bARNYARD Blob on rec. Av. Homebuilt... IMHO...
 
N801BH said:
Nothing was worse then Bertie the Bunyip and bARNYARD Blob on rec. Av. Homebuilt... IMHO...
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lol The Bunyip almost singlehandedly dismantled and destroyed the old newsgroups. It's too bad, but in many ways it led to the birth of places like POA, so I guess it's not all bad.

Anyone know where the bill stands? Is there any procedural handbook somewhere that outlines the process of where it goes next?
 
Jay Honeck said:
This discussion is interesting. Almost like Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde, we seem to be discussing two different people.

One is the on-line Hyde. I've had the misfortune of crossing him, and IMHO he's one of the most irrational and unpleasant people I've run into online. This experience seems to be fairly common.

The other is the off-line Jekyl. Most people who have interacted with him personally and professionally speak of him in glowing terms.

As Spock would say, "Fascinating".

In another 25 years, there will probably be a medical term to describe this phenomenon.
:)
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I've met Bruce. I like Bruce a lot.

I've not met Jay. I don't like Jay much.

But I must admit that this is a very accurate assessment.
 
N801BH said:
I can see the form question now...


23- Do you currently have, or ever had Chienism? Check yes or no. :D
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As long as the question includes that people kept accusing me of only being in it for the money while I was attempting to help them free of charge. That'd get me pretty testy as well. I might even use profanity if that kept happening. And as folks who know me would attest, I don't often use profanity.

John
 
N801BH said:
Nothing was worse then Bertie the Bunyip and bARNYARD Blob on rec. Av. Homebuilt... IMHO...
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<thread sidejack>

Bertie was trivially easy to filter out.

The most idiotic posters were (in no particular order)

Bill the-longisland-looneybird Mulcahy
Tarver splaps Engineering
Mxmaniac


One thing I miss about usenet, I could filter out morons like Bertie and the direct replies to his posts.
 
Bob Noel said:
<thread sidejack>

Bertie was trivially easy to filter out.

The most idiotic posters were (in particular order)

Bill the-longisland-looneybird Mulcahy
Tarver splaps Engineering
Mxmaniac


One thing I miss about usenet, I could filter out morons like Bertie and the direct replies to his posts.
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Oh man! Mxmaniac. That gave me a shiver...
 
Yes. I've seen that too and Nate summed it up well.

John
 
jsstevens said:
Oh man! Mxmaniac. That gave me a shiver...
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I just heard a horse whinny... ;)

Usenet had many advantages over the POA format. Sadly, after Google put them on their groups, the lack of any way to moderate those groups doomed them to oblivion.
 
timwinters said:
I've met Bruce. I like Bruce a lot.

I've not met Jay. I don't like Jay much.

But I must admit that this is a very accurate assessment.
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Really? We haven't met?

I wonder who the guy is that I've always thought was you? lol!
 
Just read that over 13,000 people have written their representative through the EAA link. Form letter or not, that has to begin making an impression. If you haven't already done so, consider writing your representative.
 
Todd Copeland said:
Just read that over 13,000 people have written their representative through the EAA link. Form letter or not, that has to begin making an impression. If you haven't already done so, consider writing your representative.
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Is this a bad sign? HR 3708 (General Aviation Pilot Protection Act of 2013) had 163 cosponsors and seems to have gone nowhere so far. This new bill only has 15 house cosponsors. I don't know D.C. politics, but from this perspective it doesn't look so good.

On second look, 3708 took 3 months or so to get most of the co-sponsors. 1062 was introduced less than a month ago.

Still, why did HR 3708 result in no action, and why are we hopeful that this one will? :dunno: Enlighten a flyover state resident.
 
No response here yet. I guess they're too busy pouring through Hillary's emails....
 
F01LA said:
Is this a bad sign? HR 3708 (General Aviation Pilot Protection Act of 2013) had 163 cosponsors and seems to have gone nowhere so far. This new bill only has 15 house cosponsors. I don't know D.C. politics, but from this perspective it doesn't look so good.

On second look, 3708 took 3 months or so to get most of the co-sponsors. 1062 was introduced less than a month ago.

Still, why did HR 3708 result in no action, and why are we hopeful that this one will? :dunno: Enlighten a flyover state resident.
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Tin foil hat time, but if they ever just came out and said "no 3rd class reform/drivers license medical EVER", the GA market would go straight into the toilet. A metric crap load of planes for sale and no buyers . :(
 
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