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Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by azblackbird, Dec 30, 2017.
True. Imagine the damage that could be caused by one drunk software geek...
Agreed, you can't really much trust a in vivo reading of below .04 for anything. In a post mortem it's even less useful.
I'm not for drunken drivers but a checkpoint violates unlawful search laws. In Dallas a few years back cops were writing people up in a downtown hotel bar for dwi. Their excuse was they were going to drive, even the ones that arrived by taxi from the airport.
The point is they stopped you without cause. That is illegal.
DUI or public intox. Such a DUI arrest would not even have probable cause, let alone enough for conviction. Public Intoxication doesn't require you drive, just be sufficiently toasted in a public place (a bar will suffice) that you are a danger to yourself or others.
Seems apropos: They call me 'Tater Salad' ...
Just on a personal note, I think roadblock stops are unconstitutional. As they are now.
But that said, I will say my experience moving to Norway have really opened my eyes. They occasionally do roadside stops here as well, but they don't cause a jam stopping each and every car, they wave in one or two, talk to the driver, check registration is in order and that's it. Happens seldom.
But the big difference here, the penalties for drunk driving, and the low, low percentage needed to be over the limit is so ingrained here that nobody I know does it. If I have ONE beer, I don't drive. Most folks are like that here. Since it is accepted, it's not a big deal, when you go out to drink you simply arrange other transportation home.
I grew up in the midwest (Chicago area) and lived many years in northern california and I know for sure from my own experience that the biggest problem that used to be with this in the US, is the VERY person that is deciding whether or not they have had too much, is YOU...and when most of us get tipsy or more, our own evaluation of our skills shoots right through the roof. Specially when NOT driving means a longer, maybe cold, maybe costly commute and the next day we won't have our car and public transportation is a PITA. So guess what, we judge often that yeah, we are ok to drive.
That part of the equation is I think responsible for a huge percentage of the drunk driving, accidents, etc. And I DID it too. I have driven in the US when I absolutely shouldn't have. As a young man I recall a guy I knew that had driven (or attempted to) home from being out drinking, stopped at a long freight train crossing, and fell asleep at the wheel while waiting. He woke up to a cop tapping on his door (had the windows down) and abruptly woke up, fumbled to put the car in drive and looked up to see the cop had already leaned in and taken the keys, grinning at him while jingling them. This was in the 70's. The weird part, the cop asked him how far he was to get home, and let him drive on as long as he went straight home. That was the old days.
When I first came here, a friend laid it out for me. He said "look, the way it is here, if I came home from work, went up to my apt. and took a small beer, and remembered I needed something from my car, I MIGHT carefully walk down to the car, look in EVERY direction, unlock it on the passenger side, leaving the keys in the door, and my feet outside, and try to get the CD or whatever it was I needed. But I would do it as quickly as I could, and if it wasn't really needed, wouldn't do it at all". I remember some cops up in northern Norway showed that just using the windshield washer fluid and inhaling could put you over the limit if tested immediately after. It's insane how little. People get drunk driving the day AFTER, after going to bed and sleeping 8-10 hours, and up, breakfast, drive. It's really insane.
BUT..the upshot is, you just don't take a chance. There is no moment in a bar or at a party where you have to think "am I OK to drive now?" The answer is easy. Even though the cops really aren't out on the street at night stopping cars (their roadblocks I've only ever seen in daytime) etc. The penalties are just so high that it is never worth the risk.
My wife was amazed, we were in the desert in Arizona somewhere, about 25 miles from the nearest town behind us and another 25 to the next one, and out in the middle of the desert a HUGE bar, with a huge parking lot. The US (other than cities) just don't have the alternate transportation habit.
I'd bet the average LEO would gladly go for months without issuing any tickets, arresting anyone, responding to any domestic disputes, you name it. Wouldn't it be AWESOME if we all lived in Mayberry and the drunks just walked in, asked for they key, and hit the cot to sleep it off?
Police don't convict. That's for the courts. I'm not even sure they charge you. Their reports are the suspicion of an offense. Then someone else charges an offense, and yet another person (or 12) convict.
I cannot believe it. James is apparently a member of Black Lives Matter. OK, maybe not a member, but he certainly appears to be a sympathizer.
So if I'm sick of the polices shanagans I'm in BLM?
.....what if I told you I don't like BLM, what if I told you I both support the 2A AS WELL AS the 4A? Crazy right???! Lol
The police system needs a TON of work in this country.
I have heard informally that Norwegians drink a crapload more than we do here in North America, at least in the lower 48. Something to do with the long dark winters. I would be happily corrected if mistaken.
My pub crawl experience in Scotland:
Gas prices are crazy high and pubs are very close to their customers (unlike the US, unless you live in an urban area), so people either walk or taxi. At closing time, the streets in front of the pubs are lined with cabs. There really is no reason to drive. If you plan to drink, you leave your keys at home.
The downside of a very low BAC is that it can kill the ability to drive somewhere for a nice dinner and a glass of wine or a beer to enjoy with it. Cabs, Uber, and Lyft don't work well everywhere in the US.
There is no "our side". There are the cops, and there are "them."
What is your "close association"?
My favorite quote from the Al Jezeera show: "5 Fatal shots to the chest." WTF? Only one shot could be fatal, since shooting someone still alive doesn't count and shooting the corpse doesn't count.
I'm sure the show being produced by and narrated by "foreigners" that MAY have a different view of american law enforcement is interesting.
Thanks for this balanced view. <-- you know I don't mean that
Let me get this straight: a recent bad run in with several cops that infuriated you, (be careful, angry citizens get shot first, the peaceful ones get shot right after) and secondly you think cops are here to protect us? Someone needs to get current with Supreme Court rulings. The police are NOT here to protect us. Please become an informed citizen for your own protection, and those whom you love.
Government of the people, by the people, for the people. Please become an informed citizen for the safety of those around you.
Nice. She's got two sets of kidneys metabolizing the alcohol!
Oh I know they have zero responsibility to help me, as with most of the government they serve themselves first and foremost and only serve the people of it aligns with that.
Because when the cops shot first and ask questions later, treating this country like they are kicking doors in Iraq, that's all cool if you have an American accent lol
It's not so much as a cultural thing, no matter what your nationality when a nut job hyped up cop shoots you in your own home, when you didn't break any laws, it is normally globally considered a "bad" thing lol
Many do, but few drive in that condition.
This year was the lowest fatal accident year since the 40's. In a country of five million where there is some very bad weather, night driving all winter, snow, lots of ice, they had 107 fatal accidents. It's not directly correlated or correct, but just checked on the net that this past year US fatalities were around 40,000. If they had the same rate Per capita in the US, it would have been around 7,000 instead of 40,000 using 350 million.
When I was first here with an IT team, we had all gone out and were walking behind a Norwegian that was very drunk...one of the team said "if I was that drunk, I'd have been passed out an hour ago". There is a lot of drinking, probably more than typical in the us which I think makes the death toll more impressive.
I suspect there are far more options for public transportation in Norway than in most American cities. Indeed, how many Norwegians actually drive vs. their American counterparts?
If only we could harness the stupidity....
and then contain it under some domed structure in a place called DC.
Actually, not much better. It's just that Norwegians are used to the idea and accept it isn't as convenient as driving. The city governments are actively discouraging driving, gas is expensive, etc.
If you love outside of a major city, if you miss your train it is about two hours for the next one.
I live in Oslo, there are busses, trams (in the city center), subway and trains. Took a train the other day outside of rush hour filled...standing room only, on the way back the train was canceled but another came a half hour later. Could sit. We get lots of delays and people wonder why they can't be more on time, and more convenient.
It's not that convenient and cabs cost a lot. When I lived in the Bay Area and worked in Berkeley, the BART trains were much better than transport here it seemed to me.
It's better in many other countries. Prague was amazingly clean, well organized and efficient.
It's just not that simple, but again, drunk driving though it happens, the general population just doesn't do it.
To me it is what I said, no ambiguity, you drink one drink, you don't drive that day. Some may risk driving five hours later or something. But there is no standing around trying to figure out if you can drive. It makes the difference.
We do, and we feed it tax dollars and pensions.
Sadly as long as enough citizens like licking boots it'll just keep getting worse.
When we were in France, they pulled our tour bus over. We'd been out tasting wine all day long so the passengers were by and large hammered, but the officer courteously dealt with us while the checked the driver. Zero tolerance there.
What was the reason for the stop?
Random check of commercial operator. Don't even need an articulable suspicion in France...no Terry.
Zero tolerance....zero constitution, scary stuff.
I'm not against the po po by any means, but I do have an interesting story I'd like to share hehe (true story)
I was 16 at the time, driving home from Dairy Queen (my first job) in Cave Creek. It was around 10 o'clock at night and there was a construction zone where they were working on part of the road (obviously they weren't working on it at this time of night). Speed limit was like 25mph I think. I can't remember how fast I was going, but it was fast enough for the local Sheriff to pull me over (Cave Creek Sheriff's are notorious for being total a-holes). So I pulled over into a local CVS parking lot. Roll my window down. The Sheriff walks up and says, "haha I knew you'd be a young kid". I didn't really know what to say lol. He proceeded to basically verbally harass me despite the fact that I was totally compliant with everything he asked for (insurance, license, registration, etc). At one point he even said, "I don't want any attitude from you." This is where it gets bizarre. For some reason he wanted to really teach me a lesson and follow me HOME to talk to my parents. So he takes my license and no joke disappears from the CVS parking lot. I thought he was supposed to follow me home? I was like wtf? So I called the Cave Creek Sheriff station and told them this dude just took my license and I have no idea where he went with it. They said they would figure out what was going on and call me back. So in the meantime I was like alright I will drive home. Get to my gate, cause I live in a luxurious gated community , and what do ya know! He is sitting there waiting for me. So I open the gate, drive to my house and go inside. Walk to the front door and open it for the Sheriff. No joke the guy just waltzed in my house. Okay then. Again the guy starts verbally harassing me. He was teaching me a real lesson. I had enough so I finally said in my trembling 16 year old voice, "Sir, I would like your name and badge number." Not even kidding, he immediately starts yelling, "Who do you think you are? Who do you think you are?" He said that 3 or 4 times. I'm not making this **** up. At about this time, my dad gets home and walks in from the garage. My dad was like, "What's going on here?". The guy immediately turned into Mr. Friendly Neighborhood Cop. And to top it all off he says, "Oh I am from the East Coast so I can come off a little rough sometimes" WTFFF are you kidding mee??? So anyways the guy left me off with a warning and didn't even give me a ticket after all this crap. I think the Cave Creek Sheriff's office called me back at some point after this, but I can't remember if I really said anything about what happened.
To date it is by far the most bizarre experience I have had with an officer. I actually ran into him a few years later on July 4th. I was parked in an undeveloped culdesac on Black Mountain to watch the fireworks with a bunch of other families. He came up there and yelled at everyone to leave immediately. Lol.
My brother is a probation officer (he has a Criminal Justice degree from ASU) and has tried to get on with just about every police department in the state of AZ. As soon as they get to the background check they drop him. Why? He had a DUI in college (near the ASU campus). Over 10 years ago. He hasn't had a lick of alcohol since. It's complete B.S. Sad thing is he would make the perfect LEO. He is a big guy (he was an all state linebacker 3 years in a row), very fit, and has the perfect personality for it. Very kind hearted and laid back. He has done tons of recurring training as a probation officer (sex trafficking, tons of firearm training, drug abuse, etc). He actually made it through three rounds of interviews with the FBI, but they dropped him too. It's been really sad to see them shut him down all because of a stupid DUI 10 years ago. Driving drunk shouldn't be acceptable, but it shouldn't ruin your life either.
Meanwhile I know a kid from high school who is a LEO. He used to do all sorts of illegal stuff including stealing LED light bars of vehicles. He dropped out of college. But hey the police force swept him right up. And he uses the badge to his advantage. He would go out to the bars with a gun on him and drink "cause it was legal for him to do so". Seems like he has cleaned up his act a bit more now, but he has a big ego from being a cop.
Anyways...I'm not against the police, I've ran into some great ones and ran into some bad ones. Regarding DUIs...I'm not sure what the perfect solution is.