Was it a cross-country? Instructor said no.

[ja_user]

You can determine the xc < 50nm much easier by not logging them, and just looking at the airports column. (Assuming you log all stops) this is much easier than logging everything and trying to figure out which are 50nm later...

You likely will never need the <50nm xc time, you will need the > for future ratings.

Or just use two columns if you want? Make another for atp (no landings), make another for PIC XC... It's your logbook...

This is easier to do if you use a spreadsheet or myflightbook.com

 

[Neil Rubin]

CC time is always 50nm minimum when vying for a rating...Since logging your time is otherwise optional, why log anything less than 50 miles as a CC? My logbook list anything shorter than 50 miles as "Local" keeps everything more categorized and easier to add up when it comes time.

There are at least 3 cases where a flight in an airplane that never goes 50 miles from the point of departure might be useful as cross country time for obtaining further ratings or privileges:

- a cross country flight in an airplane with a landing at least 25 miles from the point of departure can be used toward the 500 hours of cross country required for a helicopter ATP rating

- a cross country flight that lands anywhere other than the point of departure can be used toward 135 pilot cross-country minimums (100 hours for Part 135 VFR and 500 hours for Part 135 IFR)

- a cross country flight as PIC that lands anywhere other than the point of departure can be used toward the 250 hours of cross-country PIC required for a Category II or Category III authorization

And, of course, a flight that doesn't involve a landing at all but that goes at least 50 miles from the point of departure can be used toward an airplane ATP rating.

If you are sure that you never want any of these things or that you will have more than ample cross-country time even if you only count the 50 nm and a landing time, then don't log any of this time as cross country. But, the number of potentially relevant and different definitions of cross country time under the regulations is pretty incredible.

 

[jaybee]

There are at least 3 cases where a flight in an airplane that never goes 50 miles from the point of departure might be useful as cross country time for obtaining further ratings or privileges:

- a cross country flight in an airplane with a landing at least 25 miles from the point of departure can be used toward the 500 hours of cross country required for a helicopter ATP rating

Sure about that ?

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

Unless something has changed... that means done in a helicopter.

 

[Neil Rubin]

Sure about that ?

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

Unless something has changed... that means done in a helicopter.

14 C.F.R. § 61.161 sets forth the aeronautical experience requirements for a helicopter ATP. Among other things, it requires "at least 1,200 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least: (1) 500 hours of cross-country flight time [and] (3) 200 hours of flight time in helicopters . . . ."

If your position is that all 500 hours of cross-country flight time needs to be in a helicopter, that makes the "200 hours of flight time in helicopters" rather superfluous, as anyone with the required cross-country time would automatically have more than 500 hours in helicopters. I think it's rather unlikely that the FAA meant for the 200-hour requirement to be superfluous. As I read the regulation, it should be possible to get a helicopter ATP with only 200 hours in helicopters and 1000 hours of time in whatever other combination of aircraft categories and classes you want.

In fact, I think there would actually be a way to get a helicopter ATP without flying a single hour of cross country in a helicopter: Get an ATP with an airplane category rating first and get a recreational helicopter rating (which doesn't require cross country time). Fly helicopters using the recreational rating enough to take care of the helicopter total time, PIC, and simulated instrument requirements of § 61.161. Then take the ATP helicopter checkride to add on the helicopter category and class at the ATP level. I don't think you'd ever actually have to hold a helicopter private, commercial, or instrument rating. Not that anyone would hire you for a helicopter ATP job with that sort of background, but I can't see why it couldn't be done.

Anyway, this is getting pretty far afield from the OP's question.

 

[EricBe]

Just a note about how MyFlightbook does this: if you're using the AutoDetect feature of the mobile apps and it sees landings more than 50nm apart, it will automatically fill in the cross-country time with the total time of the flight.

Why 50nm, when there is technically no threshold for cross-country?

Two reasons:
a) because 50nm seems to be the minimum that counts for cross-country for just about all purposes. I.e., less than that may technically be cross-country, but doesn't count towards various ratings.
b) because computers are pretty good at figuring out things like "did you land at another airport", so logging it explicitly seems redundant. In MyFlightbook, you can search for flights that were "non-local" (= from one airport to another), and the resulting totals should thus represent your technical total cross-country time, regardless of whether or not you bothered logging it.

So I personally only tend to explicitly log cross-country time for >50nm flights, since that's the total I usually want at my fingertips, and I can always get the "all flights that could possibly be cross-country" time by searching for non-local flights.

 

[SkyDog58]

All of a sudden, the limitation for a cross country flight no greater then 50nm makes sense for commercial pilots without their instrument. I thought that was rather odd language since my interpretation of a cross country flights was 50nm or more.

Just a clarification: That 50nm limitation is just for carrying passengers. All other commercial ops can be in excess of 50nm.

61.133 (b) Limitations. (1) A person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category or powered-lift category rating and does not hold an instrument rating in the same category and class will be issued a commercial pilot certificate that contains the limitation, “The carriage of passengers for hire in (airplanes) (powered-lifts) on cross-country flights in excess of 50 nautical miles or at night is prohibited.” The limitation may be removed when the person satisfactorily accomplishes the requirements listed in §61.65 of this part for an instrument rating in the same category and class of aircraft listed on the person's commercial pilot certificate.

So technically you could fly commercially such as ferrying aircraft on longer cross-country flights beyond 50nm without an instrument rating. I had this discussion with a CFII recently who swore up and down that all commercial ops were limited to 50nm without the instrument rating. I showed him this reg and then he called the FSDO to confirm. The beer I won sure tasted good.

 

[airdale]

My homemade logbook program logs both separately. When departure and destination airports are entered, it also calculates the distance as a cue to me as to which box to check.

 

[lovetwinprops]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 50nm requirement is "straight-line distance," right? Here in Southern California, and I imagine all over the western states, we can fly 70, 80, 90nm to get from one airport to another, but have it not count as a cross-country for ratings purposes because the straight-line distance is something like 45nm. (Darned mountains!) If working on a rating, we have to pay attention to this!


Gerry

 

[timwinters]

Gotta love it when there is a "B" in parenthesis...

Click the "disable smilies in text" box way down at the bottom...under "additional options" and immediately above the "manage attachements" button.

And then B) will show properly.

Gotta go advanced, it's not there under quick reply.

 

[Zeldman]

Use pencil in your logbook. Erase mistakes. Looks better than crossing out and adding more mess in the columns. Ink fades over time, pencil doesn't.

As an instructor I used indelible ink for student signoffs.

 

[EricBe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 50nm requirement is "straight-line distance," right? Here in Southern California, and I imagine all over the western states, we can fly 70, 80, 90nm to get from one airport to another, but have it not count as a cross-country for ratings purposes because the straight-line distance is something like 45nm. (Darned mountains!) If working on a rating, we have to pay attention to this!


Gerry

That's always been my understanding. Although I think "great circle" (vs. "straight line") is what they meant to say, but for 50nm the difference between the two is obviously inconsequential. MyFlightbook uses great-circle distance between airports when deciding whether to auto-fill the cross-country field.

 

[MAKG1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 50nm requirement is "straight-line distance," right? Here in Southern California, and I imagine all over the western states, we can fly 70, 80, 90nm to get from one airport to another, but have it not count as a cross-country for ratings purposes because the straight-line distance is something like 45nm. (Darned mountains!) If working on a rating, we have to pay attention to this!


Gerry

Unless you're flying a 152, the mountains are not that hard to get over. I've done KTOA LAX KWJF. That one is less than 60 miles along the route, and 56 miles direct (and it's a real nice XC).