Wanted: CFII for trip

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by NealRomeoGolf, Jul 31, 2020 at 3:20 PM.

  1. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Pattern Altitude

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    I could post this in the Classifieds section, but then you guys wouldn't be able to tell me what a stupid idea this is.

    I am looking for a CFII to accompany me on a trip from central Illinois to Boise at the end of September. I want to go visit a friend. I want to fly myself. I want to get started on my IR. Why not put all three together? It may not be the most efficient way to learn IR during a long trip across the country, but taking a CFII with me also gives me a better chance of not having to cancel the trip due to weather.

    Aircraft is my personal Piper PA32R (Lance). It has a 530W and a NAV2, although I am not sure the NAV head is working. I am going to ask my avionics shop about that on Monday when they do the pitot/static check.

    Dates are September 21 to October 2. We can do a day or two of fundamentals at my home base before we leave. I would like to be in Boise before dinner on the 24th. We would leave Boise on the 28th and make a side trip to Logan Utah. After getting back to Illinois we could then do another day or two of air work. While in Boise you would be free to do whatever you want.

    Route I made is my best effort at avoiding the high MEA areas. Looks like this and is subject to change: 3MY BFF V100 MBW V6 CKW V4 OCS KEMM 4150N11100W U78 ALKAL KBOI. Basically fly to Wyoming and then follow I80 until breaking off to go over Big Bear Lake between the bigger rocks.

    I have about 225 hours of total time and over half of it is cross country time. The only instrument flying I have is my PPL 3 hours. I have studied for the IR written but have not taken any practice tests or (obviously) the real one. I need to get back at it.

    Anyone interested? Stupid idea? Terrible way to learn IR?
     
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  2. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    def not the dumbest idea I've ever heard :happydance:

    I personally would like to see u take several lessons before this trip so you actually get the most out of it. I think if this was your first lesson, you'd be ripping yourself off as far as retaining knowledge or having some foundational building blocks prior to this. hope u can find someone willing to just bum around boise for several days.
     
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  3. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Pattern Altitude

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    What kind of flying is done on the very first lessons for IR? Scans? Attitudes? Holds? Just curious.
     
  4. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy En-Route

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    Like some people underwear on this site...it depends.
    Cross country flight vfr weather certainly good place to get started as you could do some of the fundamental stuff along the way as opposed just to a straight shot.
    I don’t think you’ll get out of it as much as you would putting that flying time up in two more individualized lessons but if the opportunity persists and you have the money to do and the cfii to do it so be it
     
  5. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    Why not start on your instrument lessons now? I'm concerned that a day or two of two of instruction would be enough training to get you to the point where you'd optimize the value of a long XC.
     
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  6. dfw11411

    dfw11411 Filing Flight Plan

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    I did this, although not by design and I had a few IFR lessons completed (both ground and flight). We encountered many situations you just don't get in routine training. I found it to be one of the most beneficial and instructive flying experiences I've ever had.
     
  7. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Not a -II but from studying — most start with basic instrument attitude reference then build on that to get very specific numbers for desired outcomes in the specific model aircraft, like “Set for a 500 FPM constant airspeed — pick a couple for slow and fast approaches — descent wings level, approach flaps.”

    Write all that down and practice a little then move on to XC planning, charts, weather analysis, etc... after basic attitudes and desired configurations are getting close to “rote”. The attitude stuff is usually augmented along the way with nav tracking, real approaches (“We want about 500 fpm at this groundspeed so set that THEN start following that glide slope ...”), and missed approaches, AND as that skill becomes rote, the post-its and suction cups come out of the bag of tricks and your whole panel starts “failing”.

    :) :) :)

    All of that gets repeated during the XC with real weather and such. And of course some at night.
     
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  8. bobmrg

    bobmrg En-Route

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    I usually planned on most of the first five hours being devoted to boring (but essential) exercises in control by instrument reference. I guess it would work in a cross-country context if the applicant (oops... learner) doesn't mind paying for that much time devoted to not really going anywhere. Holds? Heaven forfend!!! How can anyone learn holding entries and patterns before demonstrating the ability to fly straight-and make level turns without outside reference?
     
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  9. Dave Arata

    Dave Arata Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I learned about the OSCAR pattern from Jason Miller (The Finer Points) and found it to be a tremendous exercise in building sound IFR fundamentals.
     
  10. RussR

    RussR Pattern Altitude

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    Seems like pretty costly training, since most CFIs (certainly me) would expect to be paid a day rate for the entire time, 12 days, whether flying or not. A common day rate for this type of thing, while dependent on the area of the country, is probably somewhere around $500. So $6000 for the CFI for the 12 days.
     
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  11. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Would do it for way less than $500 if I finish my CFII by then :lol:
     
  12. catmandu

    catmandu Cleared for Takeoff

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    "Madam, we've already established what you are. Now we're just haggling over the price!" :rolleyes:
     
  13. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    See ^^^ real -II there. I spaced out the holds. LOL!

    Been a while... sigh.
     
  14. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Which reminds me @NealRomeoGolf — Google an instrument syllabus and make darn sure the CFI-I is using one! :)
     
  15. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    :happydance:
     
  16. aterpster

    aterpster En-Route

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    In 1962 I went on a two week trip (EMT-DCA-MIA-EMT) with a physician in his new, well equipped for the times, Beech Debbie. It was awful. He didn't do any studying, and some of the routes I gave him in the eastern U.S. were incomprehensible to him.

    The "compensation" was free room and board. (Had to share a room with the cheap SOB.)

    It was the only time I lost my cool with a student. Then, we were stuck with each other for another week. At least he folded his cards, and had me fly the rest of the trip.
     
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  17. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Pattern Altitude

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    So for those of you paying attention, I would be nothing like that.
     
  18. TommyG

    TommyG Cleared for Takeoff

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    So are you going to be paying the CFII hotel room for that time in Boise?
     
  19. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Pattern Altitude

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    Yup.
     
  20. TommyG

    TommyG Cleared for Takeoff

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    Don’t be that CFI that lowers the market for compensation. Not like anyone is getting to the airlines for a few years, so keep a living wage in the market.
     
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  21. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    No interest in the airlines, anyway. Besides, isn’t salary usually commensurate with experience? :dunno::lol: :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020 at 12:30 AM
  22. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    This is ridiculous. Price fixing is what breaks the market. Mind your own business and let two parties decide amongst themselves what a fair wage is. If what you agree to is not a “living” wage, in your opinion, then find another livelihood.
     
  23. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    This is ridiculous. One person on the internet giving advice is not price fixing.
     
  24. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    His advice is to price fix.
     
  25. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    No, it isn't, and it's not possible for one person to "price fix".
     
  26. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    You are wrong. The advice was for no CFI to price significantly lower than others. That's price fixing. The entire premise of his statement was to prevent the market from "lowering compensation". That's price fixing.
     
  27. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    huh? so his advice was to price fix by advising not to price fix?
     
  28. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Perhaps you guys need to google price fixing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

    In my line of work it's a felony, although in this case, it's just stupid.
     
  29. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Posting an opinion about prices in a public forum is not price fixing and cannot possibly result in price fixing.
     
  30. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    It appears you do not understand the concept of price fixing.

    If I talk to one other person that sells the same product I do, and we agree to keep our prices above x, that is price fixing, and in industries like banking and health care, it's a felony. If found out, we would both go to fed prison.
     
  31. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    It appears you do not understand the concept of price fixing. There has to be an agreement among all parties in the market. Posting an opinion, in public, does not equate to an agreement among two people let alone the entire market for flight instruction.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020 at 7:56 AM
  32. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I think you should consider sending the CFII home commercial from Boise, and then flying him back to Logan when you're ready to go home. The commercial tickets would be less than the daily minimum + expenses, and you might get more takers if they aren't going to be stuck on the road for 8-10 non flying days away from friends, family, and such.
     
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  33. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Incorrect.
     
  34. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Pattern Altitude

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    Good thought.
     
  35. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Yes you are.
     
  36. Jim Carpenter

    Jim Carpenter Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hmmmm, interesting idea. First off, your proposed routing is just about right, a good way to go.
    As others mentioned, I'm not really sure just how much "good" training you'd get, cruising along enroute. Of course, any experience is worthwhile, but, this kind of trip would be much more appropriate towards the end of your IR training. At a minimum, I'd suggest the first 5 hours or so of basic lessons (straight and level, turns, climbs, descents) prior to departure. Weather that time of year is likely to be more VFR than not. And, as said, the downtime in Boise, whether the CFII stays there, or goes back and forth by airline, adds to the expense quite a bit. It'd be great if you found an instructor that also had reason to travel to that part of the country, but not likely.
    Not saying it's a bad idea, but my first thought is that your training dollars might be better spent focused elsehwhere.
     
  37. AeroLudite

    AeroLudite Filing Flight Plan

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    You just need the right CFII.
    If it was Oct-Nov, I’d consider taking you up as I have a good friend in Afton, WY that could come get me. I could hunt and fish with him and you wouldn’t be on the hook for room,board, or per diem while in Boise. Still might think about it. Trout are still biting.

    Though not ideal, I’ve done similar arrangements combining training with business trips. And lots of time in PA32’s of various flavors. Being that I’m retired, my rates would be reasonable/affordable. I have to be somewhere doing something. I prefer flying, but hunting, fishing, or camping are #2-4.
     
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  38. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Pattern Altitude

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    I'd do it. Normally I charge $600/day for this sorta thing. Because the 'stealing food from pilots, wah wah' crowd appeared here with the tired old 'living wage' saw, I'd do it for 400/day out of spite. :D

    You really want a pilot local to you though for the round trip, and save on the airfare and gain insights about the local IFR environment. I think your idea has merit, though. I grabbed a CFII and did a few XC flights dual/foggled while working on my IFR. I loved it and gained all sorts of 'real world' practical experience.
     
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