Want to start flying…

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Mstrlucky74

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Mstrlucky74
Hello all . I’d like to start taking flight training and lessons.
Regarding the small airplanes …guess light aircraft, what are the some of the top reasons they crash? I understand the accidents are very very rare but I’d like to know the top causes as I feel it would be prepare me and make sure I always address, be aware of these potential problems . Thank you very much.
 
The pilot.

Yes planes can have failures, but the weakest link are the humans.

There is always going to be imho a certain acceptance of the risk when you launch into the sky with one piston engine. You might want to make your peace with that than thinking too much about crashing.
 
SebIp said:
The pilot.

Yes planes can have failures, but the weakest link are the humans.

There is always going to be imho a certain acceptance of the risk when you launch into the sky with one piston engine. You might want to make your peace with that than thinking too much about crashing.
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Thanks

came across this ..
 
I didn't watch the video, but a lot of them are preventable. Fuel exhaustion or wonky weight and balance, for example. Do your flight planning and do it properly. Don't run your airplane on the edge of empty even if you run your car like that. Load your airplane on the safe side of max gross and don't push that. VFR into IMC and the resulting disorientation. Check the weather and check it often. Don't fly if the weather is volatile or quickly changing if you're going outside of the traffic pattern. You can also get instrument rated so clouds won't be so dangerous. Stall-spins. Have a sterile cockpit in critical flight stages such as takeoff and landing, and focus on what you're doing. Fly the airplane the way you're supposed to, with the appropriate control inputs and good airspeed control.

There will always be risk associated with flying. It's good to mitigate it as much as possible, but don't expect to be able to remove all the risk.
 
Like you said, accidents are very very rare. I don't think studying what causes crashes before you even start lessons will help you prepare at all. Start your lessons with a good instructor and he or she will go over all this during your training. Much of your training is going to be preparing you to "not crash".
 
RyanB said:
Flying is inherently dangerous. Just have to accept the risk, do what you can to mitigate it and make peace with it.
Click to expand...
Speaking of risk….

A Texas Aggie buddy heard on the national news that a big amount of serious accidents and injuries occurred within 10 miles of home.

So he packed up his belongings and moved.
 
When I researched it a number of years ago. The two big hitters for airplane accidents were Low flying (mostly Crop dusters, but a significant # of pilots just doing stupid stuff) and flying in bad weather.

Best I could tell from just basic statistics numbers I could find at the time, and these are a bit suspect in how the data is collected…
But in general one hour flying in an GA airplane has about the same risk as riding a motorcycle for 1 hour.
If you don’t do lowing flying or flying in bad weather you can make these number match about 1 hour flying a GA airplane has about the same risk as driving for about 1 hour.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I really liked what this guy had to say…
 
brcase said:
Best I could tell from just basic statistics numbers I could find at the time, and these are a bit suspect in how the data is collected…
But in general one hour flying in an GA airplane has about the same risk as riding a motorcycle for 1 hour.
Click to expand...

I think it's very hard to get accurate numbers for comparisons like this, but I have heard this one before and I'd say it "feels" about right.

It's also worth noting that the pilot makes a big difference in both cases. The majority of motorcycle accidents I've heard described could have been avoided by the rider (even in cases where the rider was not legally at fault - they still could have done something to avoid it). I've seen riders ride very safely and I've seen riders do crazy hotdog s**t in city traffic. This has about the same bearing on their risk of an accident as you would imagine it does for a pilot...
 
Now that the reasons for crashing is out of the way, time to get started. Since most of us didn’t grow up with the silver spoon I’ll give you some free or very low cost ways to get out of the blocks. Are you a mid to upper teen? What State do you live in? No, I don’t want your home address.

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation

Free downloads, start with the ‘airplane flying handbook’’.

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/learn-to-fly

Sniff around the AOPA site. I think their ‘Flight Training’ magazine is still free to students and perspective students.

https://www.eaa.org/airventure

Try to come to Oshkosh, WI this Summer. If you live near Fl, maybe substitute Sun & Fun later March instead. Don’t worry about all the activities, you can hone in on newer pilots, training, and career expectations.

Your local community college or if you have a flight school near, should offer a low cost private pilot ground school course. Besides learning the basics, that will open up new options for you. We are still at very low cost.

I met a local guy a year ago, interested. One kinda big factor is self motivation, you have to want it then bring that desire to action. You can’t be waiting around for anything to fall into your lap.

Mind the peripherals, driving record, medical history and the like.
 
Remove the word "probably" from your flying vocabulary:

I can "probably" make that.
The weather will "probably clear up before I get there"
I "probably" have enough fuel.
 
Oh, one more thing. Before you commit much time and money, be sure you qualify. Have you ever had a DUI? Arrested for illegal drugs? Been diagnosed with a mental or physical disorder, or taken "legal" drugs for the same? Read through the medical forum to see some of the obstacles others have gone through. Look into getting your 3rd class medical as soon as possible.
 
Also what I referring to is more mechanical plane failures. When it comes to those what are the most common....oil pressure etc.?
 
So you ask what causes crashes..... get the response... it wasn't what you're looking for as an answer.....

So you move the goalposts and want to now know about the unpredictable portion?

Ummmm. Okay.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
Also what I referring to is more mechanical plane failures. When it comes to those what are the most common....oil pressure etc.?
Click to expand...

No ideas which is most common, but most result in an emergency landing for which you will train during flight lessons. The others result in a "land as soon as practical" situation. The easiest way to prevent the majority of those is to fly well-maintained planes. Things may still go kerflooey, but the chances are much less.
 
Rgbeard said:
So you ask what causes crashes..... get the response... it wasn't what you're looking for as an answer.....
So you move the goalposts and want to now know about the unpredictable portion?
Ummmm. Okay.
Click to expand...
Whoa, cowboy. Let's assume Mrstrlucky74 is a total newb. Few fresh starters rarely know the right questions.

You can't know that if, what, or when a mechanical issue will befall you. However, many if not most mechanical failures are survivable. The overwhelmingly most common mechanical failures are engine related. Powerless planes glide. Off airport landings are very often survived by the souls on board. There are very few mechanical failures guaranteed to kill you. There are FAA regulation about aircraft maintenance implemented to reduce the probability of mechanical failures.

As others have said, the pilot is the weakest link.
 
Don’t take an unworthy plane airborne, don’t run out of fuel, don’t fly into weather you’re not equipped for. There, your accident chances just went down to almost nil.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
Also what I referring to is more mechanical plane failures. When it comes to those what are the most common....oil pressure etc.?
Click to expand...


The most common mechanical failure is the nut between the control yoke and the seat.

Airplanes are very robust and have redundancy. The engine has two ignition systems. There are are usually two or more fuel tanks. There’s an auxiliary fuel pump. The engine will continue running even if all electrical power is lost. Even if the engine does quit, the plane will glide for miles so a suitable landing site can be reached. Condition inspections by an FAA-certified inspector are required every year or every 100 flight hours, depending on use. A preflight inspection is conducted before every flight.

And so on.....
 
Domenick said:
Whoa, cowboy. Let's assume Mrstrlucky74 is a total newb. Few fresh starters rarely know the right questions.
Click to expand...
Also, Newbies and other non-aviators often don't know the different between a "crash" and an unintended, power-off, off-airport landing.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
Also what I referring to is more mechanical plane failures. When it comes to those what are the most common....oil pressure etc.?
Click to expand...

Broadly speaking, deferred or ignored maintenance needs are probably the most common source of mechanical failures. Stay on top of the maintenance, and if you rent you have every right to ask to see the maintenance history of what you'll fly.

Beyond that, mechanical failures are by nature unpredictable, so it's hard to say. As has been mentioned, engine-related things are the most common, and the plane doesn't fall out of the air if the engine quits, it will glide for a bit (some glide better than others). You'll get in the habit of thinking "if the engine quit now, where would I land?" You may also find that you choose to modify routes for this reason---I do, though not everyone does. For example, from Tucson to ABQ I'll go east along the freeway to about Deming and then turn north. The direct route is shorter, but it's largely over mountains; my route is slightly longer, but it's pretty much all over flat ground.

You can have a complete electrical failure and the engine will still run fine, all the controls are still fine.

If I had to guess, I'd suspect the single most common cause of unexpected engine stoppage is probably running out of fuel, so... don't do that.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
Also what I referring to is more mechanical plane failures. When it comes to those what are the most common....oil pressure etc.?
Click to expand...

Are you renting? Which btw is how you should start because owning is an order of magnitude more complicated than renting.

If renting, all you really need is check the logs, do the walk around, oil and fuel checks, plus the run up. As long as you aren’t renting from a place not following the rules those planes should be in decent shape.

When you own that’s when it gets complicated. No for sale ads lists out all the SBs not done yet and some of them are very costly. ADs usually done but there are also recurring ADs which might or might not.

Then there are the issues no one knew about. Up till a few wings fall off the piper wing spar AD didn’t exist. There could be other issues as the fleet ages.

I said you need to make peace with the risk because you’ll never get to the zero risk condition.
 
First, welcome to wanting to join the pilot club. Plenty of room, it is a great place to be.

Second, you are going to have a safety net called a CFI for several flights. The CFI will take care of handling the plane if it decides to get silly. Along the way, you will be taught to handle the silliness yourself. There are very few cases of silliness that are not survivable. The rest of them can be survived with some proper skills and decisive action. All of which you will be taught during training. (No spoilers from me on this one)

Third, relax. Quite frankly you will not have any idea what is normal or not normal (sound, vibration, view, etc) for a few flight. Remember, no need to get worried until your instructor gets worried.

Fourth, it will all come together, no need to try to have it all figured out before you even have your first flight.

Enjoy your adventure, and again, welcome.
 
Sounds like as a prospective student you might be having a little anxiety. This isn’t uncommon. The cure is education and experience. Start a ground school and take some initial lessons. I think you’ll find your anxiety will evaporate. For the moment just understand what has already been posted—mechanical failures don’t cause the majority of accidents. It’s also important to understand that a failure does not automatically result in a crash, and a crash doesn’t automatically result in a fatality.
 
Rgbeard said:
So you ask what causes crashes..... get the response... it wasn't what you're looking for as an answer.....

So you move the goalposts and want to now know about the unpredictable portion?

Ummmm. Okay.
Click to expand...
You’re an idiot
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
Also what I referring to is more mechanical plane failures. When it comes to those what are the most common....oil pressure etc.?
Click to expand...

@wanttaja is probably the best resource for this question since he’s studied it for a few decades or so.
 
TCABM said:
@wanttaja is probably the best resource for this question since he’s studied it for a few decades or so.
Click to expand...
Here's a raw dump from my database of Cessna 172 accidents. This covers 1998 through 2015.
Cessna 172 accident summary.JPG
"Primary" refers to the single cause that I felt was the starting point of the accidents. There are secondary factors, which are included in the "Both" column (which totals higher than the total number of accidents due to multiple causes on some accidents.

Some explanations:

"Pilot Miscontrol" are accidents where the main cause was the pilot's stick-and-rudder skills. This does NOT include mistakes in aerial decision making, such as running out of fuel.

"Engine Mechanical" includes most problems with the engine, including the core engine itself as well as the magnetos and associated system. "Engine Controller/Electronic Ignition" is a holdover from the EAB version of this, and thus there are no entries in this listing of the accidents of a type-certified aircraft.

"Fuel System" includes any mechanical issue affecting providing fuel to the engine. It does not include pilot-induced issues.

"Other Mechanical" is generally non-engine related issues with the airframe, not including the landing gear or brakes (which have their own callout).

Ron Wanttaja
 
So I called A local flight school/instruction place and they said you need about 60 hours training and it’s usually takes about 80-90 and the cost would be about $20,000.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
So I called A local flight school/instruction place and they said you need about 60 hours training and it’s usually takes about 80-90 and the cost would be about $20,000.
Click to expand...

You are required by law to have at least 40 hours when you show up to the DPE. Most people take between 50-80, I'd say. I spread my flying out over 1.5 years and did a bit of extra flying while waiting my checkride (took six months before weather and availability coincided), and I had 72 or 73 hours at my checkride. The cost is going to be highly dependent on which area of the country you train in, what type of plane you're training in, which type of airport you train at and how busy it is, how well you can "get" it, and how much homework you do between lessons.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
So I called A local flight school/instruction place and they said you need about 60 hours training and it’s usually takes about 80-90 and the cost would be about $20,000.
Click to expand...
All those numbers seem high. Minimum is 40 hours, most take ~60. $20K seems very high. The local school near me (CT) was quoting $6065 for the 40 hour minimum, but those are 2018 numbers. I'm sure it's higher now, but not triple.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
So I called A local flight school/instruction place and they said you need about 60 hours training and it’s usually takes about 80-90 and the cost would be about $20,000.
Click to expand...
This can also depend on instructor student combination and match, how often you can fly, and several other factors.. but that figure you got sounds generally realistic at least to set your expectations appropriately up front..
 
SkyChaser said:
You are required by law to have at least 40 hours when you show up to the DPE. Most people take between 50-80, I'd say. I spread my flying out over 1.5 years and did a bit of extra flying while waiting my checkride (took six months before weather and availability coincided), and I had 72 or 73 hours at my checkride. The cost is going to be highly dependent on which area of the country you train in, what type of plane you're training in, which type of airport you train at and how busy it is, how well you can "get" it, and how much homework you do between lessons.
Click to expand...
Thank you
 
wanttaja said:
Here's a raw dump from my database of Cessna 172 accidents. This covers 1998 through 2015.
View attachment 115137
"Primary" refers to the single cause that I felt was the starting point of the accidents. There are secondary factors, which are included in the "Both" column (which totals higher than the total number of accidents due to multiple causes on some accidents.

Some explanations:

"Pilot Miscontrol" are accidents where the main cause was the pilot's stick-and-rudder skills. This does NOT include mistakes in aerial decision making, such as running out of fuel.

"Engine Mechanical" includes most problems with the engine, including the core engine itself as well as the magnetos and associated system. "Engine Controller/Electronic Ignition" is a holdover from the EAB version of this, and thus there are no entries in this listing of the accidents of a type-certified aircraft.

"Fuel System" includes any mechanical issue affecting providing fuel to the engine. It does not include pilot-induced issues.

"Other Mechanical" is generally non-engine related issues with the airframe, not including the landing gear or brakes (which have their own callout).

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

thanks ..good info
 
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