No he didn’t as I’m answering right now. I experienced great customer support before I even bought anything from Viking when I called them gathering information during my search for buying a used homebuilt that I had my eye on. Later when I decided to have them install a larger Viking engine, I became friends with the owners, as do many other people when the owners fly out to people’s homes and do custom installs. I’m not a Viking employee, just a very happy customer, that became friends with the owners, wants to share a great product and dispel misinformation. The video that started this post with a failure at 1,100 hrs didn’t speak the whole story, the owner was intentionally pushing the engine to see what would fail despite Viking asking him not to operate it outside their set limits. So you know what Viking did after he got stuck in the middle of nowhere? They overnighted him a replacement core to get his airplane going again and that’s where the video starts. Perfect example of there always being more than one side of a story.
Viking 130 engine failure at 1150 hours
- Thread starter MarkH
- Start date
500 YouTube videos giving information about the “product” YOU didn’t read it correctly I never said there were 500 videos of customers flying their aircraft. “SOME”show installation at the customer’s home or hanger, some show installation tips from Viking. All totaled it’s almost 500 videos. If you need me to draw you a picture so you can grasp that point let me know……
To start the claim that some of these are flying
Here’s a video of Bruce , he flew his Cozy into Oshkosh 2024- so there is proof it’s flying.
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You just don’t get it do you?
I said 500 videos…. Please pay attention.
wanttaja
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A bit over a week ago, you claimed that there were 1500 customers that could supply reliability data.
How can they supply reliability data if their aircraft aren't flying? And if there are 1500 engines in flyable aircraft...where are they located?
Ron Wanttaja
No Ron, apparently you can’t pay attention……
I said, - “Completely untrue.. these 1500 people would argue they are not unreliable….”
That is TOTALLY different from saying they could supply reliability data!
However, It stands to reason - they must logically believe that these engines are reliable because they would never purchase something they believed was unreliable.
Pay attention…….
schmookeeg
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Are all weirdo-engine proponents so thin-skinned and combative? Sheesh
I feel like I now need to give the deltahawk booth a wide berth at osh, lest I get throatpunched for murmuring the phrase "vaporware" under my breath accidentally.
I feel like I now need to give the deltahawk booth a wide berth at osh, lest I get throatpunched for murmuring the phrase "vaporware" under my breath accidentally.
Ed Haywood
Final Approach
Do you think your clever barbs are improving Viking's reputation?
Seems to me that these responses are AFTER people misread things, make false claims and twist around statements that aren’t what I’ve really said. I’m sorry that you are so offended by my clever barbs, Vikings reputation was being bashed on the very first page of this thread. I am happy to call out the ignorants trash talking with having actual experience in the product.
wanttaja
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So...instead of data, those 1500 people hope what they spent thousands of dollars on is reliable.
Like the saying goes: Hope in one palm, spit in the other, and see which one fills up first....
Their only basis for "arguing that they are not unreliable" is that they don't want to find out they've been ripped off. Sure, it's a reasonable attitude.
But it's not data. Data is something ANYone can take and verify for themselves. The information I've posted is based on downloads of the NTSB accident database that anyone could do.
But...I guess when I think about it, you have never refuted any of the data-driven analyses I've posted. Never called up any of the accident reports that I've posted the NTSB numbers for to study and object to the findings I've posted. Never accessed the FAA registry to refute my claim of 168 Viking-powered aircraft in the registry. Never posted a list of N-numbers. Never even posted your own estimate as to how many engines are currently flying.
My lawyer 30 years ago had a favorite saying, attributed to Carl Sandburg: "If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law AND the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.” Is the laminate splintering off your computer desk, yet?
That video that started this thread was posted OVER TWO YEARS AGO. The original conversation ran out of steam on 22 November 2023. There were a couple of add-on messages in January 2024, but for the next two years, it lay dormant. Few remembered the thread, even fewer cared.
Until you brought it up again. Judging from some of the comments I've seen, do you REALLY think you've improved Viking's standing on POA?
Ron Wanttaja
^^^^^^^^^^^ hey, look. A real name. Not hiding behind an alias.
2-Bit Speed
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Well, that's three. Only four hundred ninety-seven more to go.
You said I couldn’t show any of these flying, I did in fact show them flying….. You twisted the narrative but the funny thing is that it would be possible to come up with 500 customer flying videos. Despite what Ron Wantafindadatabase says, but it’s like these replies, it’s not really worth anyone’s time.
Sorry that you guys are having a such a difficult time reading a post.
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Dana
Final Approach
Ron provided data about the number of engines known to be flying and the failure rate. It's not great data because of the small dataset size but it's data that says something about the engine's reliability as installed.
1500 engine sales is a different kind of data. It says nothing about the reliability of the engine, just that those 1500 people believe (or hope as Ron said) that the engine will be reliable.
The Viking may be a truly great engine... or it may not. But what data is currently available doesn't support its greatness.
Over 5000 people ordered BD-5 kits, too, believing they'd soon be flying a great little plane.
wanttaja
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It's kind of neat, one can do a sort of back-door approach to estimating the fleet size, using the accident database.
Regardless of the reliability of the Viking engine, there are going to be accidents involving Viking-engined-aircraft. About 55% of all homebuilt accidents are due to pilot error, and unless the Viking remotely polishes the pilot's skills and decision-making capabilities (while no doubt coloring their gray hair and curing ED) there's going to be accidents.
So let's assume the Viking engine is perfect. There were 21 Viking-engined-aircraft accidents from 2013 through 2024. That's, roughly, about two accidents per year.
All we have to do is go through the list of homebuilts, find another type of homebuilt with a two-accident-a-year average, and look at the FAA registry to see how many of THOSE aircraft exist.
RANS S-6: 1.5 accidents per year, 205 EAB aircraft in the registry
Harmon Rocket: 1.1 accidents per year, 83 EAB aircraft in the registry
Steen Skybolt: 1.9 accidents per year, 213 aircraft in the registry
So it looks like the 168 Viking-powered EABs in the January 2026 registry is probably in the ballpark.
Ron Wanttaja
Cap'n Jack
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Extraordinary claims require extrarordinary proof. You made a claim- now prove it! Please show us a verifiable citation where Lycoming or Continental voided a warranty in such a fashion, where it truly wasn't the operator's actions. If you are going to bash the competition, then provide evidence.
Projecting much, are we? I took screen shots to keep the context. Just one example- someone truthfully claimed the engines were sourced from salvage cars, and then you twisted his words around. You then admitted the engines did come from salvage cars
Speak with forked tongue?
One thing I noted in a video your referenced from Viking- they are at the mercy of Honda producing a given engine. The video noted (14:45 minutes) that Honda was no longer producing the Fit engine, but Viking still had many of them in stock. When those engines are gone, I'd need to do an engine replacement to doing an entirely new firewall-forward. New engine mounts, new wiring harness, new exhaust, and who knows what else? Weight & Balance for starts.
My opinion has moved from neutral to bad regarding the Viking engines.
Rather the opposite in my case. The "clever barbs", claiming that people misread your posts while twisting the words of other posts, claiming the competition doesn't honor legitimate warranties, made me think much less of the product. There are much better ways to be a "brand ambassador".
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I don’t know if this is relevant or not but most of the Viking engines now are not Hondas.
wanttaja
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Interesting to know, thanks. This doesn't affect the "Viking" data in my accident records, since I use "Honda Viking" as the standardized term and hence non-Viking engines don't get included and the non-Honda Viking engines will still be included. Does affect the overall "Honda" results (those that count Honda conversions that the NTSB does not identify as Viking), but I haven't listed them here.
Ron Wanttaja
Dan Thomas
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I was going to post that belief in its reliability is not proof of its reliability, but Ron and Dana beat me to it:
Aviation is full of wishful thinkers. They are somehow convinced that if they believe hard enough, or yell and jump up and down enough, or repeat a lie often enough, their idea will be true or come true. We see this currently in E-flight, and the failures are not pretty. Too many billions of dollars are being taken and wasted. Another was Moller's AirCar: He spent $100 million and nearly 50 years on it, most of it investor's money, in spite of the fact that there was never any sign that any of its various iterations would ever fly reliably. Then there are the wannabe homebuilders that want an airplane that does 200 MPH and carries four people and their baggage on 65 HP and costs no more than $5000 to build. Or they want a crash-proof airplane.
Over on Homebuiltairplanes.com we used to have a Boeing engineer who had a tagline: "What you believe or do not believe does not change the facts." So true.
2-Bit Speed
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You'll have to point me to where I said '[Capt321] couldn't show any of these flying...'
I seem to recall you dismissing the posts of a well-respected member of this forum because he had, according to you, an incorrect number of flying aircraft. You've hollered all about the number of orders. You then started talking about five hundred YT videos. Five hundred flying aircraft with these engines would change @wanttaja 's numbers. You've now shown three such aircraft. Three aircraft do not change his numbers. You have only four hundred ninety seven to go.
P.S. Found the post. You initially refused to provide so much as a single flying example. I called that out. After that, you provided three flying examples.
P.P.S. Still only four hundred ninety seven to go.
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All? Naah. There are some sane folks out there. But the alternative engine folks tend to be a bit different. There's a notable Corvair guy who's out there. There were a ton of homebrew Subaru and Mazda guys, most of whom were more tinkerers than flyers. There was a recent Audi guy who had the perfect airplane and engine until it wasn't.
Many of them are on the right path, but lack the resources (skill, knowledge, money) to finish the drill. So you get a great engine that won't cool. Or a great engine and a terrible PSRU. Or...
Anyway, the auto converters tend to be a special breed.
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That was a fascinating project. The planform was basically an enlarged BD-5. And there was very little press over it. I always wondered why. After the prototype crashed, I wondered how a designer like Bede had so badly butchered the W/B/Stability profile that the prototype was unflyable. That's basic stuff and Bede was (I thought) a decent designer, but bad business guy.
On the other side of this tale, a very rich electronics inventor and manufacturer hired some skilled engineers to design a personal jet.
He talked some adventurous investors to pony up a small fortune of their money, and a city to provide a factory site on an airport.
The production line started up, and the first PRODUCTION airframe started flying for certification. It crashed just after takeoff.
Anybody remember that debacle?
The Leer Jet. A small change in the second airframe on the line corrected the defect, and passed certification.
Now, if Honda was building those modified versions of one of their base engines, the Viking would have a real expectation of reliability, and follow up improvements if there was a problem. But Honda has no rreputation or money at risk, so confidense is reduced.
The OP is pushing acceptance, and has a personal potential gain, resale value of his own plane is greater if the Viking is viewed as reliable.
He talked some adventurous investors to pony up a small fortune of their money, and a city to provide a factory site on an airport.
The production line started up, and the first PRODUCTION airframe started flying for certification. It crashed just after takeoff.
Anybody remember that debacle?
The Leer Jet. A small change in the second airframe on the line corrected the defect, and passed certification.
Now, if Honda was building those modified versions of one of their base engines, the Viking would have a real expectation of reliability, and follow up improvements if there was a problem. But Honda has no rreputation or money at risk, so confidense is reduced.
The OP is pushing acceptance, and has a personal potential gain, resale value of his own plane is greater if the Viking is viewed as reliable.
Daleandee
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I'm a Corvair guy but I'm not notable or anything like that. I've had excellent service from my engine and there is some evidence that a properly installed William Wynne (Fly Corvair) conversion is the best conversion process anyone has done on these engines. No knocking other conversions it's just that WW has been at this for 37 years and his approach, operation methods, and parts are tested and they work well. Dan Weseman has been a tremendous boost to this also.
Like other auto conversions, Corvairs have had their teething problems that had to be overcome (broken cranks were an issue until a 5th bearing and or billet cranks were added). I've been hesitant to even respond to this thread as the silliness has gotten off the rails but many with receipts came through and made the point that saying something don't make it so. I've had a few friends that have dealt with the "egg-man" and their results weren't so good from what I understand but I can't speak for them. Personally I've never had any interest in one of those engines for a host of reasons but I'll digress and enjoy flying my Corvair powered Sonex ...
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Don't forget the BD-10 was in between the -5 and the -12. That piece of...kit...was a case study in optimistic performance estimation and design margins.
Nauga,
who doesn't underestimate the power of shameless hucksterism
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At least the -10 flew. Until it didn't.
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I certainly wasn't calling you or your airplane out. I hope you didn't think that. It seems that Wynne has pretty much figured out the Corvair conversion business. Doesn't he provide/recommend/sell an upgraded front bearing that helps with the prop loads/crank failure issue?
That said, I think Wynne is a little out there. I've seen some of his stuff on social media. Also, I remember at least one of the Kitplanes engine editions referred to him as a bit of an odd duck (that wasn't the quote, but you get the idea).
Daleandee
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No sir ... I didn't think you were pointing at me at all. Yes to the front bearing. In fact some years ago William began a practice of not supporting any Corvair engine that didn't use a 5th bearing for prop loads. I have Dan Weseman's version and it has worked well without any concerns.
I agree that WW can be a bit different but I've met a number of folks that can be put in such a group. He may not be in a class by himself but it don't take long to call the roll.
That being said ... he does know Corvair conversions and his approach has been well proven.
wanttaja
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Guess we can add Dave Blanton to the "odd ducks" involved in auto engine conversions. He got into a huge tiff with Dave Martin, the editor of Kitplanes. Publicly called Martin a vile name that I don't recall right now. The issue was the amount of horsepower the Blanton Ford engine supposedly produced.
Roger Mellema of BD-4 fame bought a Blanton kit and put it in his own BD-4. Asked him who was right about the horsepower claims, Martin or Blanton. "Martin," he said.
The reduction drive was delivered with miss-drilled holes that Roger had to correct. He flew the airplane several years with no issues, then switched back to the Lycoming. He just never felt confidence in the engine, and didn't want to risk his family.
With THAT said, I think the kind of personality that's able to design and produce products like homebuilt aircraft or auto engine conversions tends somewhat towards odd-duckiness. You have to have a strong personality to withstand the criticism (much of it from people who don't know what they're talking about) and they don't necessarily have the tact to gently dissuade the critics. I worked closely with such a designer at Boeing; I once had to intercede with our government customer as he was being, uhhh, a bit too frank in dismissing their ideas and they wanted him off the program. Oddly enough, he was a classmate and friend of the late Chuck Slusarczyk, and their personalities were VERY similar.
You see the same personality traits in a number of homebuilt projects, both successful and unsuccessful... Pete Bowers, Dennis Fetters, Dean Wilson, etc. Doubt Dick VanGrunsven would have taken the Van's aircraft to the peak of the industry without similar iron will, albeit he didn't exhibit the negative personality aspects. But I bet no one is able to push him around.
I once worked for an engineer with all these traits (non-aviation program) and he had half the staff loving him, and half hating him. I actually had a management position (under him, of course) to provide a more genteel and tactful interface for the employees.
Ron "I'm just brimming with tact, you know" Wanttaja
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Railing against people suspect of an engine that failed at 1100 hours and using ones own data that yours hasn't failed at 500 hours tells me absolutely nothing.
I'm sure the 1100 hour engine also looked good at 500 hours. In fact, I bet it looked good at 1000
I applaud the people pushing the envelope. I applaud the beta testers. But I don't think I'm going to be one. At least not from an entity with a checkered history.
I'm sure the 1100 hour engine also looked good at 500 hours. In fact, I bet it looked good at 1000
I applaud the people pushing the envelope. I applaud the beta testers. But I don't think I'm going to be one. At least not from an entity with a checkered history.
Also not true…. are these Ron’s Wantadatabase facts derived from poor sources of information or just something you heard?
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So you applaud the guy that ran the improper very low octane fuel in the engine, halved the recommended engine and gear box oil changes and operated the engine well above rpm’s advised by the designer who tuned these engines to perform best on a higher octane fuel. It was even known in advance that he was experiencing detonation problems running on the low octane fuel, verified by compression and borescope checks if I remember correctly. Yet the guy continued to push things. With no great surprise a piston cracked and this forced him down as the smoke poured out of his engine. Seems to me, you sir are applauding stupidity…….
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wanttaja
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Then you're going to have to point me at a better source of data. BTW, "data" is not the plural of "anecdote."
My data source is the National Transportation Safety Board.
Now, there are some folks on this board that have pointed out problems with NTSB investigations they've been involved in (the Other Ron, for one). But whatever flaws there are in the NTSB's process, it still beats using a company's marketing department as the source of information.
Ron Wanttaja
2-Bit Speed
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