VFR Pilots on Flight Following, for the Love of God...

Shawn

Shawn

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Shawn
...when a controller asks for your "route of flight" on frequency you do NOT need to read off EVERY single waypoint spelling it all out phonetically tying up the frequency for what feels like minutes on end. Controllers, correct me if I am wrong but they just want your general route of flight like "Burbank, El Monte, then direct" or "up the coastline" so they know what to expect...not a full play by play flight plan literally spelled out.

I heard that happen again literally three times flying home today on a long XC trip followed by an audible sigh from the controllers...one actually laughed. I was beating my head on the dash listening to it so I can only imagine what the controller was going through!

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I’ve had a controller ask me for details that would indicate they like all the info when they have time to deal with it.
 
So which folks were opposed to filing so that a strip would be available for the controller when a flight following request is made?
 
I stopped using flight following quite a while back - several reasons, but mostly cause I didn't find the "conversations" worth the annoyance. . .
 
Sundancer said:
I stopped using flight following quite a while back - several reasons, but mostly cause I didn't find the "conversations" worth the annoyance. . .
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Really? You’ve never had a controller help you avoid traffic? Do you fly under a Bravo?
 
George Mohr said:
I can’t see flying VFR for any reasonable length trip without FF. It’s just too valuable. Give it another try if you haven’t recently!
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I’m all for it, but it can give one a false sense of security.
 
Kritchlow said:
I’m all for it, but it can give one a false sense of security.
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Exactly. FF is bottom priority for ATC workload. I’ve found in a lot of places that you can’t expect ATC to give you traffic advisories.

Personally, if I want traffic advisories or ATC coordination, I’ll file IFR.
 
I do agree that spelling everything out phonetically is a bit much, unless ATC specifically asks for it.
 
Depends on where you fly, the plane's equipment, and ATC workload.
 
If it’s a long flight outside that controller’s airspace and your waypoints vary significantly from a general direction, then yes, give all the route info. The controller is typing that route info into the flight data input output computer. The FIDO uses algorithms to compute which different facilities to send a strip to. If a pilot just starts veering off towards some navaid that wasn’t given and it’s outside his airspace, the other controller may or may not have a strip on it. Without a strip, no automated handoff can be done. Equipment suffix isn’t all that important on the controller end, but the FIDO requires it in order to take.

Can’t imagine it taking too long to rattle off a route. I do 800 mile VFR flights with maybe 3 total points in them.
 
Clark1961 said:
So which folks were opposed to filing so that a strip would be available for the controller when a flight following request is made?
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Doesn't filing a VFR flight plan only go to FSS for S&R? I was under the impression those never made it to ATC.
 
amster105 said:
Doesn't filing a VFR flight plan only go to FSS for S&R? I was under the impression those never made it to ATC.
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If an IFR flight plan is filed using the letters VFR in the altitude block then the flight info will be available in a strip for the controller who is responsible for the airspace where the flight plan starts.

The folks who argue against the method claim it is somehow risky or confusing and has not benefit. I laugh loud and long at the folks who argue against it because their claims are based on a negative attitude instead of logic.
 
So if they want to know where I'm going, OCHOC, V66 to Athens, CONLY then direct KLZU is too much?

I was just thinking - that's 258 miles straight line distance. If I add a landing on the way back, it qualifies as the commercial cross country, doesn't it? Or no because I stopped to eat lunch?
 
bflynn said:
So if they want to know where I'm going, OCHOC, V66 to Athens, CONLY then direct KLZU is too much?

I was just thinking - that's 258 miles straight line distance. If I add a landing on the way back, it qualifies as the commercial cross country, doesn't it? Or no because I stopped to eat lunch?
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If it’s busy or fairly local (in the region) I just give destination when I don’t have a plan on file. So far that has been sufficient. Edit: if I’m planning a dogleg in the route I’ll prolly let them know about it.

Eating lunch or stopping for the night has no affect on a cross country meeting regulatory requirements for a rating.
 
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Kritchlow said:
I’m all for it, but it can give one a false sense of security.
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I was going to say something similar to that.

Too many times I have been 1/2 mile from another plane at the same altitude but opposite direction and never hear a word from ATC. Too many times I get a hurried, " 549BRleavingmyairspacesquawkvfrgoodday"....

But if I am going to an unfamiliar area or into a class something more than D I just file. And that is file IFR.
 
With good heads up/out of the cockpit and ADSB traffic, FF is, to me, another layer of redundancy but not the deciding factor in traffic avoidance.

Sure is nice on FF, however, to know that you've someone already dialed up on the radio in the event of an emergency.

I fly w FF a lot and only give call up position and destination. If I deviate from DIRECT I advise them. No hassles.
 
wrbix said:
Sure is nice on FF, however, to know that you've someone already dialed up on the radio in the event of an emergency.
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Yeah and that’s the main reason why one should use it. In the event of an emergency, the speediness that someone gets rescued is increased substantially if they’re on FF vs. just flying around 1200 on a flight plan.
 
Shawn said:
...when a controller asks for your "route of flight" on frequency you do NOT need to read off EVERY single waypoint spelling it all out phonetically tying up the frequency for what feels like minutes on end. Controllers, correct me if I am wrong but they just want your general route of flight like "Burbank, El Monte, then direct" or "up the coastline" so they know what to expect...not a full play by play flight plan literally spelled out.

I heard that happen again literally three times flying home today on a long XC trip followed by an audible sigh from the controllers...one actually laughed. I was beating my head on the dash listening to it so I can only imagine what the controller was going through!

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That doesn't work. I click on it and nothing. Probably a good thing, I'd just start rantin and ravin, shakin my head and beating it on my computer as if was the 'scope' and telling him to STFU. Yes, I have done this. I'm assuming the controller asked for the "route of flight." Ask and ye shall recieve. I learned to say things like 'general' route, "ya going direct or [up the coast, following the river, whatever.] That was bout 15 years ago. I'm sure it's much worse now.
 
Velocity173 said:
Can’t imagine it taking too long to rattle off a route. I do 800 mile VFR flights with maybe 3 total points in them.
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I certainly don’t mean just respond with “Dat-A-Way” but I was hearing 8-10 waypoints rattled off by VFR pilots for sub 100 mile trips and was clear they were not understanding what the controller was asking for. That was a bit absurd.

My favorite last week was after a VFR pilot reading off an endless list of waypoints, the controller responded sarcastically with “Shyhawk 12345, thanks for ALL that information”

The point of my post was it is clear that some pilots think they are subject to a rigid flight plan while on FF and what ATC wants is general route of flight to plan handoffs as noted above...not which airways and VORs you will be flyin.
 
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Shawn said:
I certainly don’t mean just respond with “Dat-A-Way” but I was hearing 8-10 waypoints rattled off by VFR pilots for sub 100 mile trips and was clear they were not understanding what the controller was asking for. That was a bit absurd.
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Thank gawd they didn't 'rubber band' in some LatLong's. Or did they? Can you repost that link? I still can't make it work.
 
luvflyin said:
Thank gawd they didn't 'rubber band' in some LatLong's. Or did they? Can you repost that link? I still can't make it work.
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Didn’t post link...wish I did note frequencies and times but it seems to be a more common occurance at least in my neck of the woods. Maybe it is just a pet peeve of mine!
 
I think a lot of FF good & bad depends on the region. Out here in the Mountain time zone, FF is usually pretty good - where it exists. Going either way over the hills, we get "going to lose you at XXX (or in X minutes), try nnn.nn once you get on the other side".

Heading along the Front Range (east side of the Rockies, the entire length of Colorado and into New Mexico) it's sufficient to provide current location (x miles from X airport on Y radial) going to [destination airport], which is usually a straight line around here. If we change altitude, ATC appreciates the heads up because there's lots of FLIBs out of the USAF Academy and IPT training around Pueblo. Most of us also have to deal with the Class B of Denver. But heading south, we usually get "cleared into Class B".
 
Perhaps I have been fortunate these last 27 years, but when I do request flight following on my non-IFR flights, I literally just say, "N12345 requesting flight-following to XYZ." I have never been asked to provide my routing.

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Shawn said:
...when a controller asks for your "route of flight" on frequency you do NOT need to read off EVERY single waypoint spelling it all out phonetically tying up the frequency for what feels like minutes on end. Controllers, correct me if I am wrong but they just want your general route of flight like "Burbank, El Monte, then direct" or "up the coastline" so they know what to expect...not a full play by play flight plan literally spelled out.

I heard that happen again literally three times flying home today on a long XC trip followed by an audible sigh from the controllers...one actually laughed. I was beating my head on the dash listening to it so I can only imagine what the controller was going through!

maxresdefault-9-640x360.jpg
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Literally? Like, fer reals literally?
 
murphey said:
I think a lot of FF good & bad depends on the region. Out here in the Mountain time zone, FF is usually pretty good - where it exists. Going either way over the hills, we get "going to lose you at XXX (or in X minutes), try nnn.nn once you get on the other side".

Heading along the Front Range (east side of the Rockies, the entire length of Colorado and into New Mexico) it's sufficient to provide current location (x miles from X airport on Y radial) going to [destination airport], which is usually a straight line around here. If we change altitude, ATC appreciates the heads up because there's lots of FLIBs out of the USAF Academy and IPT training around Pueblo. Most of us also have to deal with the Class B of Denver. But heading south, we usually get "cleared into Class B".
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I also alert the FF controller when changing altitude and what altitude I intend to go to. Frequently it seems the reaction is “whatever just maintain VFR” - not literally of course. So do some controllers appreciate this information or do all of the controllers just want me to STFU as indicated above?
 
Briar Rabbit said:
I also alert the FF controller when changing altitude and what altitude I intend to go to. Frequently it seems the reaction is “whatever just maintain VFR” - not literally of course. So do some controllers appreciate this information or do all of the controllers just want me to STFU as indicated above?
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If it’s busy(ier) airspace, I’ve also found that the controllers like to be advised of any altitude changes. Lesser busy areas not so much. Nonetheless, I always give them a heads up of altitude changes no matter where I may be.
 
Ryanb said:
If it’s busy(ier) airspace, I’ve also found that the controllers like to be advised of any altitude changes. Lesser busy areas not so much. Nonetheless, I always give them a heads up of altitude changes no matter where I may be.
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Also give them a heads up when you aren’t going to change altitude. I had to go about 10 miles past my destination to get under a cloud layer. ATC was a little annoyed that I didn’t tell them I planned to overfly...
 
SbestCFII said:
Perhaps I have been fortunate these last 27 years, but when I do request flight following on my non-IFR flights, I literally just say, "N12345 requesting flight-following to XYZ." I have never been asked to provide my routing.
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A lot of it depends on where you are flying. In my experience, they don’t typically care unless you are going through or around Class B airspace.
 
SbestCFII said:
Perhaps I have been fortunate these last 27 years, but when I do request flight following on my non-IFR flights, I literally just say, "N12345 requesting flight-following to XYZ." I have never been asked to provide my routing.

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I say the same thing but most of the time on a interstate flight, they reply with “say your route of flight to XYZ.”

On approach, unless I knew the pilot was going direct, I always asked route of flight. Usually just assigned /U by default if the pilot didn’t give it. If the pilot didn’t file, gets terminated, and goes down later on, at least you have a route of flight to go on for SAR.
 
Briar Rabbit said:
I also alert the FF controller when changing altitude and what altitude I intend to go to. Frequently it seems the reaction is “whatever just maintain VFR” - not literally of course. So do some controllers appreciate this information or do all of the controllers just want me to STFU as indicated above?
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Absent any altitude restrictions issued, the AIM specifically states that while on FF pilots "Should" (not must) advise (not request) any changes in altitude. If your call to ATC requires a response of anything other than a "Thank You" from ATC you have made a request, not advised.

"NorCal, Slykane 12345, VFR Climb to 6,500"

You should get a "Roger", "Thanks", or "Altitude at your discretion" in response.

If controller gets pizzy...it is on them. Now if you request 6,500 while VFR, that is where I hear controllers get irritated all the time.

SbestCFII said:
I have never been asked to provide my routing.
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Al depends on where you fly. My typical XC trips from Northern CA to Southern CA could involve 2 Centers and/or 6 Different Tracons depending on which route and altitudes I choose and not uncommon to get a request of route two times during the flight with various controllers.
 
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Clark1961 said:
If an IFR flight plan is filed using the letters VFR in the altitude block then the flight info will be available in a strip for the controller who is responsible for the airspace where the flight plan starts.

The folks who argue against the method claim it is somehow risky or confusing and has not benefit. I laugh loud and long at the folks who argue against it because their claims are based on a negative attitude instead of logic.
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On an IFR flight plan "VFR" isn't an accepted entry in the altitude block. It's either an IFR altitude, a VFR altitude or "OTP" if you want to fly VFR on Top.
 
SbestCFII said:
On an IFR flight plan "VFR" isn't an accepted entry in the altitude block. It's either an IFR altitude, a VFR altitude or "OTP" if you want to fly VFR on Top.
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Nope. VFR is fine. Done it many times.
 
Clark1961 said:
Nope. VFR is fine. Done it many times.
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So how do you notify ATC of your proposed Altitude? I agree with Scott, VFR isn’t a valid entry. I think you’re confusing this with something else.
 
Ryanb said:
So how do you notify ATC of your proposed Altitude? I agree with Scott, VFR isn’t a valid entry. I think you’re confusing this with something else.
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VFR is a valid entry in the FAA system. The FAA uses the method for VFR flightplans in the FRZ. I suggest that instead of trying to tell me that I can’t do something that I’ve done many times that you folks show a little gumption and figure out why it might not be working for you.

As for notifying ATC youse can just tell them using the radio thingy in yer aircraft. Or the altitude can follow the VFR on the form.
 
Ryanb said:
If it’s busy(ier) airspace, I’ve also found that the controllers like to be advised of any altitude changes. Lesser busy areas not so much. Nonetheless, I always give them a heads up of altitude changes no matter where I may be.
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On one occasion I descended to get a better view of the Spiral Jetty along the shore of the Great Salt Lake, and the controller came on to warn me she would lose radar coverage if I went much lower. I thought that was interesting. Later on that same flight a different controller told me that they would lose contact for about 15 minutes (a known issue along that flight path).

Anyways, that's separate from the original post. Yes it's stupid to provide numerous waypoints for FF. Usually I just tell them where I'm going and that's all they need.
 
woodchucker said:
On one occasion I descended to get a better view of the Spiral Jetty along the shore of the Great Salt Lake, and the controller came on to warn me she would lose radar coverage if I went much lower. I thought that was interesting. Later on that same flight a different controller told me that they would lose contact for about 15 minutes (a known issue along that flight path).

Anyways, that's separate from the original post. Yes it's stupid to provide numerous waypoints for FF. Usually I just tell them where I'm going and that's all they need.
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I was given an altitude restriction by an Amarillo controller while on FF. I was outside the Charlie. Since the frequency was quiet I asked about why the restriction and the reply was radar coverage. I canceled FF since I was landing soon and needed to descend.
 
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