VFR Flight Following Question

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dougmalc

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dmalc
I'm a low-time pilot who frequently uses flight following out of my class C home airport. Always, in the past, my FF requests have been from airport-to-airport. So, in planning some upcoming site-seeing trips to 2 or 3 areas within about 50nm of home, I was wondering how to request FF when I'm not planning on landing at another airport. Do I just give my planned headings and distances? Thanks for any advice
 
"Request flight following local area." If you start to approach their boundary, they'll say "N345, how much further (direction) will you be going." They'll either affect a handoff or terminate you and tell you who to call for further FF.
 
You're always landing somewhere. We haven't left one up there yet.

If your route of flight isn't a straight line, tell them what it is. Like, maneuvering near XXX then returning.
 
Velocity173 said:
"Request flight following local area." If you start to approach their boundary, they'll say "N345, how much further (direction) will you be going." They'll either affect a handoff or terminate you and tell you who to call for further FF.
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This.
 
"Scenic flight, first station is over the stadium" or "2 miles east of some point" or whatever.
Then just keep atc informed.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
how's about if you're going point A to point B but not direct and not stopping...........can u say "point A to point B via X" or "by way of...."? take this example:

deleteme2.jpg

should I say "request FF from JQF to 43A via High Rock Lake" ?
 
I'd just use a nearby fix like PONTI.
 
eman1200 said:
how's about if you're going point A to point B but not direct and not stopping...........can u say "point A to point B via X" or "by way of...."? take this example:

[cut]

should I say "request FF from JQF to 43A via High Rock Lake" ?
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Sure. Do whatever works and don't worry about the phraseology.
 
MAKG1 said:
Sure. Do whatever works and don't worry about the phraseology.
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why would I NOT worry about the phraseology? I'm a pilot, I'm trying to learn what the CORRECT way to ask for it is. now if if I'm in flight and in a bind, I wouldn't let proper phraseology stop me from straight out asking what I need, but this is a conversation specifically about 'what is the proper phraseology'. so now is the time to 'worry' about it, not when it could get in the way of safety.
 
eman1200 said:
why would I NOT worry about the phraseology? I'm a pilot, I'm trying to learn what the CORRECT way to ask for it is. now if if I'm in flight and in a bind, I wouldn't let proper phraseology stop me from straight out asking what I need, but this is a conversation specifically about 'what is the proper phraseology'. so now is the time to 'worry' about it, not when it could get in the way of safety.
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Because there isn't proper phraseology for that.

Plain English is not just for emergencies. From AIM 4-2-1.b:
Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across.
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MAKG1 said:
Because there isn't proper phraseology for that....
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If that is true (and I obviously don't know since I asked) then this is a much more helpful answer to me, and maybe to others who may be wondering the same thing, than "don't worry about it".
 
eman1200 said:
why would I NOT worry about the phraseology? I'm a pilot, I'm trying to learn what the CORRECT way to ask for it is. now if if I'm in flight and in a bind, I wouldn't let proper phraseology stop me from straight out asking what I need, but this is a conversation specifically about 'what is the proper phraseology'. so now is the time to 'worry' about it, not when it could get in the way of safety.
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You are not worried about the standard phraseology for this request because because you are asking for something that is not standard. None of the suggestions made here involve standard phrasing for a standard request. There might be certain mutually understood local phrases like "We'd like the San Francisco Bay tour" but even then it's just plain old English with simple words. Even ATC uses that when giving instructions that don't have a Handbook reference.

Example 1
Pilot: "We're heading to Mount Hood to fly around it for a while."
ATC: "Roger. Advise when you are ready to head somewhere else."

Example 2. Pilot is going to private airport. ATC is unfamiliar with it.
Pilot: Flight Following to PrivateLife.
ATC: That's not in our database. Can you give us something nearby?"
Pilot: Let's do flight following to [ENROUTEAPT]
Later, approaching [ENROUTEAPT} with, not only a different controller, but a completely different ATC facility.​
Pilot: We're not landing at [ENROUTEAPT]. We're going to PrivateLife about 20 NM west. Can you stay with us until we have it in sight?
ATC: Affirmative. Let me know.

Example 3:
ATC: We are going to lose radar contact with you soon. But you can stay with us (for fight following) and make position reports.
How's that for non-standard?
​
Example 4:
Pilot: We're doing a photo shoot over Broadway and 2nd and would like traffic advisories.
ATC: Squawk...


Other than the names, those are real events. I don't have a safety issue with any of them. Much bigger safety issue is thinking that you can't just use simple English and there =has to-= be a standard phrase for everything.
 
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eman1200 said:
why would I NOT worry about the phraseology? I'm a pilot, I'm trying to learn what the CORRECT way to ask for it is. now if if I'm in flight and in a bind, I wouldn't let proper phraseology stop me from straight out asking what I need, but this is a conversation specifically about 'what is the proper phraseology'. so now is the time to 'worry' about it, not when it could get in the way of safety.
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Because the phraseology in this case isn't all that important. Just tell Concord Ground that you'll be requesting FF to the NE and what altitude. Once you get up with approach they might want more information on your route. If so, "N345 will be proceeding 25 miles NE of Concord, then proceeding direct Montgomery Co."
 
Thanks for all the input. I appreciate the help!
 
I have lived in Alabama my entire 50 years and as much as I have tried, I have a very thick southern drawl. I keep it as standard as I can, but sometimes plain English gets the point across better. I have tried the short, clipped pilot tone.....barely sounds like English. Keep it simple and as standard as possible is what I do, using as few words as possible.
 
Sometimes I almost get the impression that (new) pilots are given the impression that requesting FF is putting an imposition upon the controllers.
--- You are NOT imposing on them. If you were, they would let you know in no uncertain terms
--- You ARE providing them with a point (milepoint/checkpoint/datapoint -- whatever you are comfortable with) to let them know who you are --- particularly if you suddenly get into someone's way that has position priority over you. It allows them to address YOU directly and have you move your butt instead of re-directing the higher priority traffic or possibly causing collateral problems.
--- It gives them an idea of what you are doing and where you might be going --- however
--- They are FOLLOWING you. You aren't restricted to a pre-set pattern or route and can deviate to your heart's desire when and where you please.
--- It is a means of helping them and SAR officials immensely if you choose to see what a CFIT is all about --- even if it isn't controlled
Don't be intimidated by the use of the procedure -- or of ATC --- they are there for your benefit.
 
eman1200 said:
how's about if you're going point A to point B but not direct and not stopping...........can u say "point A to point B via X" or "by way of...."? take this example:

View attachment 45985

should I say "request FF from JQF to 43A via High Rock Lake" ?
Click to expand...

AIM 4-2-1: "Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across."

IOW, there isn't a canned phrase that fits all situations and you can say whatever you want to say any way you want to say it. I like your suggested phraseology.

Bob Gardner
 
Keep in mind that, as a pilot, you are never required to use standard phraseology. It's there as a convenient shorthand sometimes, but it's never the priority. Intentions for VFR advisories very seldom fit into a script.

A few things I've done under flight following, almost all of which involved a landing at the same place as the takeoff:

1. Photos of the new Apple campus and the "Cube" (former Almaden Air Station), both of which involved a lot of circling
2. Search patterns over Santa Cruz mountains
3. Photo strips along CA-99
4. Photos of decommissioned Rancho Seco nuclear power plant
5. Generic airwork south of Livermore
6. Cadet orientation rides around Mt. Diablo (demonstrating ridge lift and wake)
6. CAP Form 5 checkride (like a BFR) near Tracy, CA, with unplanned landings (turns out, it was New Jerusalem, but I didn't know that until I was overhead and the engine "failed").

None of those fit into a standard script. Generally, I tell ATC some relevant landmark and "maneuvering," as they won't care about the details.

As you might guess, I use VFR flight following for almost everything. Sometimes, they can't, and then I'll hear them say something nonstandard. Like "Unable flight following so close to Visalia airport at that altitude. There are too many targets. Squawk VFR, recommend switching to advisory, frequency change approved."
 
If I'm going around a bit and back to start I'd say "Bugdestroyer 666, request VFR traffic advisories, ___ thousand five hundred, (x mile radius) or (x miles NSEW) of (present position). They'll usually point stuff out for you and be glad to know you're verified and what you're intentions are.
 
rolivi said:
If I'm going around a bit and back to start I'd say "Bugdestroyer 666, request VFR traffic advisories, ___ thousand five hundred, (x mile radius) or (x miles NSEW) of (present position). They'll usually point stuff out for you and be glad to know you're verified and what you're intentions are.

That's the key. The "I don't want to bother the controller" folks are the ones who cause the controller to give traffic advisories such as "Traffic your three o'clock, your altitude, I'm not talking to him."
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