Vfr dog house

Sorry I don't understand. If you actually want a paper chart, I'm not sure what would more convenient than the various online stores (like Sportys, etc.), who will mail you a new one every cycle.

Of course, that's now every 56 days, so the costs would definitely add up.
I don't fly enough to need a new one every 56 days, and I generally decide where I'm going to fly the day of, or maybe a few days before, otherwise that would be an option. Used to be you could buy any localish sectional in just about any FBO. I only know of one anywhere near here that still sells them.
 
Why do some guys get so pedantic and upset if someone uses the words interchangeably?
Because they are not interchangeable. And if you asked AI, this is yet another example of where AI often screw up with aviation.

Licenses are giving permission for a specific amount of time. So you take your Drivers "License" test and you are permitted to drive for X period of time (pending your state).

A certificate is an attestation that the pilot has proven they can do what is required within published standards and that "Certificate" does not expire. A better comparison would be between a Diploma and a Certificate.

And yes, there are some licenses, FCC comes to mind, that do not expire. But again, they are granted for a different purpose, however slight that difference may seem.
 
Because they are not interchangeable. And if you asked AI, this is yet another example of where AI often screw up with aviation.

Licenses are giving permission for a specific amount of time. So you take your Drivers "License" test and you are permitted to drive for X period of time (pending your state).

A certificate is an attestation that the pilot has proven they can do what is required within published standards and that "Certificate" does not expire. A better comparison would be between a Diploma and a Certificate.

And yes, there are some licenses, FCC comes to mind, that do not expire. But again, they are granted for a different purpose, however slight that difference may seem.
They're not interchangeable; not all certificates are licenses and not all licenses are certificated. But pilot licenses and driver licenses are both certificated.

The real question is why people feel the need to make up meanings of words.

 
Because they are not interchangeable. And if you asked AI, this is yet another example of where AI often screw up with aviation.

Licenses are giving permission for a specific amount of time. So you take your Drivers "License" test and you are permitted to drive for X period of time (pending your state).

A certificate is an attestation that the pilot has proven they can do what is required within published standards and that "Certificate" does not expire. A better comparison would be between a Diploma and a Certificate.

And yes, there are some licenses, FCC comes to mind, that do not expire. But again, they are granted for a different purpose, however slight that difference may seem.

My Flight Instructor certificate certainly expires, every two years I need to renew it. So is it a CFI license?
 
My Flight Instructor certificate certainly expires, every two years I need to renew it. So is it a CFI license?
Well every first-year law student knows that a license is a right to enter property and take something away, and that it's revocable unless combined with an interest. So, maybe? o_O
 
The real question is why people feel the need to make up meanings of words.
To be accurate. As fun as flying is, there is a need to be accurate. So probably why so many pilots prefer to use the correct term. Also, you spent a lot of time, sweat and tears to get that "certificate" so get it right! :D

I was in in various "technology" areas for years. So I'm one of those people that like the correct words used as you can spend hours running around chasing the wrong issue based on what you were originally told was the problem, not what had the issue was they were experiencing. My staff would get so ****ed when they'd come in needing me to come look at a major issue and my first words were "is it plugged in?" A large percentage of the time it was not an equipment issue it was a cable or yes, a connector that was not firmly seated.
 
My Flight Instructor certificate certainly expires, every two years I need to renew it. So is it a CFI license?
Umm... NO. Think about it.

Does your Pilot Certificate "expire" or are you not current? (I hope you get that part.:D) So... stick with me on this... No, your CFI Certificate never expires, but you "privileges" (or authority or currency) to perform the duties of a CFI expire.

If my IFR currency expires, I can still call myself Instrument Rated, I just can't go file or fly in actual (same with just my Private Certificate). You can always call yourself a CFI, but you may not be able to give instruction.
 
No, your CFI Certificate never expires, but you "privileges" (or authority or currency) to perform the duties of a CFI expire.
You mean his license to instruct? His "instructor license"? And my CFI certificate certainly does expire. It says so right on it.

You'll notice there's nothing in the definition of "license" posted above that requires expiration.
To be accurate. As fun as flying is, there is a need to be accurate.
Making up definitions decreases accuracy and understanding.
 
You mean his license to instruct? His "instructor license"? And my CFI certificate certainly does expire. It says so right on it.
Not sure why you're hung up on "instructors license" but you be you. The rest of us will call it what it is. But if you find a "License" number on it, let us know. :D

And it is your CFI privileges that expire, not the Certificate. And have you been to FIRC recently??? There actually has been a lot of talk about this over the years (lots of years) and expiration date is coming off of the CFI Certificate. I think it was actually removed from some renewals or new Certificates in 2024 with the rest to follow. (You still have to fulfill the recency of experience requirement, just no more printed date... since the Certificate doesn't expire.)

You might also want to take a look at 61.197 sometime. You'll see things like "exercise the privileges" and the word "privileges" come up. But do tell me if you find where your Certificate Expires anywhere in there (or anywhere else) or the word "license." :cool:
 
And it is your CFI privileges that expire, not the Certificate.

But do tell me if you find where your Certificate Expires anywhere in there (or anywhere else) or the word "license." :cool:

My CFI certificate pretty clearly says it expires. Right on the back. Notwithstanding the new rules about expiration dates, this to me pretty much renders the whole "certificates don't expire, licenses do" argument provably incorrect.

IMG_20261026_201704.jpg

And if it does expire, I do not consider myself a CFI any longer, nor does anybody else I've talked to. If you ask someone with an expired CFI certificate if they are a CFI, the likely answer is "no", followed by how they used to be, but didn't keep their cert current. If you ask someone if they are a pilot, they will say yes even if they haven't flown in decades.

It's why to me the whole certificate vs license argument truly is pedantry.
 
Licenses are giving permission for a specific amount of time.
No, your CFI Certificate never expires, but you "privileges" (or authority or currency) to perform the duties of a CFI expire.
So you are drawing a clear distinction between "permission for a specific amount of time" and "privileges that expire"? These things are entirely different and mutually exclusive in your opinion?
 
To be accurate. As fun as flying is, there is a need to be accurate. So probably why so many pilots prefer to use the correct term. Also, you spent a lot of time, sweat and tears to get that "certificate" so get it right! :D

I was in in various "technology" areas for years. So I'm one of those people that like the correct words used as you can spend hours running around chasing the wrong issue based on what you were originally told was the problem, not what had the issue was they were experiencing. My staff would get so ****ed when they'd come in needing me to come look at a major issue and my first words were "is it plugged in?" A large percentage of the time it was not an equipment issue it was a cable or yes, a connector that was not firmly seated.
I disagree that "certificate" is the only correct term. If it were, we would be receiving driver certificates instead of driver licenses. Furthermore, the FAA uses both terms. Notice that the first pilot's identification card issued contained the words, "Pilot's License No. 1."
 
Best answer I've found so far searching the web for license vs certificate; I copied this, didn't write it.

"The people who could answer this are all dead. Some plausible answers are:
It was to make it clear that individual states could not license pilots.
To differentiate between CAB licenses that were being superseded and the old French licenses popular in the US before 1926.
To allow a uniform enforcement method for pilots, mechanics, and commercial operators under laws like 49 USC § 44709.
Nobody really knows. Almost every other country "licenses" pilots."
The second best answer was;
"To give boring pilots on the internet something to argue about."
 
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