Using the "wrong" oil

Katamarino

Katamarino

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Katamarino
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I had my local shop take care of a list of small jobs for me while I was away recently. They sent the invoice through and I was surprised to see that they'd apparently performed an oil and filter change - this was odd because that was nowhere in my list of tasks. I had recently done an oil and filter change myself so I'll certainly be suggesting that they remove this from the bill. I doubt they took any oil sample, so my unbroken run of oil analysis is probably at an end.

I run W100 in my big bore Continental, due to concerns around the friction modifiers in W100+ negatively affecting the starter bearing adapter - something I've experienced myself. The shop has, of course, used W100+.

I'll ask them to change it out with W100, but I can't imagine that anything more than that is needed - the small amount of additives left over will be pretty diluted, and will only be there until flushed out at my next oil change in 30ish hours and a month's time from now. Any contrary opinions?
 
Katamarino said:
...I'll ask them to change it out with W100, but I can't imagine that anything more than that is needed - the small amount of additives left over will be pretty diluted, and will only be there until flushed out at my next oil change in 30ish hours and a month's time from now. Any contrary opinions?
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I concur on the dilution factor. Let us know if you get the oil change off the bill and if they agree to redo with W100.
 
Do you usually use this shop? Want to keep on good terms?

Agree that they should refund the oil change fee and change to your preferred oil. They'll lose a several hundred dollars on this - oil and labor, etc.

You could, if you wanted to, offer to have them keep the oil filter on the plane. I doubt that the amount of wrong oil in the filter will be meaningful. The shop could "owe you one" for helping them out a bit like this. Just a thought for ya.
 
WDD said:
Do you usually use this shop? Want to keep on good terms?

Agree that they should refund the oil change fee and change to your preferred oil. They'll lose a several hundred dollars on this - oil and labor, etc.

You could, if you wanted to, offer to have them keep the oil filter on the plane. I doubt that the amount of wrong oil in the filter will be meaningful. The shop could "owe you one" for helping them out a bit like this. Just a thought for ya.
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I was thinking of keeping the filter on, indeed, given the relatively small amount of oil in there.
 
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I get the *potential* concern. But how much of an issue is it really if you run the usual number of hours ONE TIME with the 100+???

And as others have asked, is this your regular shop or one you'll never go back to?
 
Katamarino said:
Hasn't been run yet as far as I know, apart from any leak check they may have done.
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Typically it takes an engine run up to operating temps for the anti-friction additives to adhere to the metal surfaces. If not run or just a quick leak check should be okay. If still have a concern perhaps a quick call to TCM tech support.
 
Katamarino said:
I had my local shop take care of a list of small jobs for me while I was away recently. They sent the invoice through and I was surprised to see that they'd apparently performed an oil and filter change - this was odd because that was nowhere in my list of tasks. I had recently done an oil and filter change myself so I'll certainly be suggesting that they remove this from the bill. I doubt they took any oil sample, so my unbroken run of oil analysis is probably at an end.

I run W100 in my big bore Continental, due to concerns around the friction modifiers in W100+ negatively affecting the starter bearing adapter - something I've experienced myself. The shop has, of course, used W100+.

I'll ask them to change it out with W100, but I can't imagine that anything more than that is needed - the small amount of additives left over will be pretty diluted, and will only be there until flushed out at my next oil change in 30ish hours and a month's time from now. Any contrary opinions?
Click to expand...
What does W100+ do to the starter bearing adapter?
 
Katamarino said:
I run W100 in my big bore Continental, due to concerns around the friction modifiers in W100+ negatively affecting the starter bearing adapter - something I've experienced myself. The shop has, of course, used W100+.
Click to expand...
Not that I'm an expert on it, but my old A&P/IA told me that 100+ is fine unless you add something like Camguard or Avblend to it. After I added Camguard to my O300 O360(w 100+) due to a period of infrequent flight, I had a problem with the starter adapter slipping. (Like I said, I am no expert).

He advised using 100w with Avblend, or use 100+ withOUT the additive. He did add that even the additives won't cause a problem unless the adapter is already prone to slipping. I have followed that for the past 17 years with no more problems

As long as they didn't add additives to the 100+ I wouldn't worry.
(edited to correct engine type)
 
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JjCc Jay said:
You're fine. One run with W100+ won't hurt a thing. The additive is diluted after the first flight, and it's not going to grenade your starter adapter in 30 hours.
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The adapter won't break. It just won't turn the engine. It uses a friction drive as an overrunning clutch, and has several small, smooth cams that wedge against a shaft when the starter starts turning it. Once the engine starts, the clutch's cams are flung outward away from the shaft.

Any oil with anti-friction additives can cause that thing to slip. I had to stop using Aeroshell 15W50 in the O-200s in the Cessna 150s. They have that same starter drive as the OP's O-300. The Lycoming additive in the 15W50 was meant to preserve camshafts in the O-320-H2AD engines, and is slippery stuff. So slippery that it dropped the oil temperatures 30° in the little A-65 in my Jodel.

There could be enough oil remaining in the filter to cause some trouble. If slipping starts, those cams start wearing and instead of a rounded surface that has a highly-loaded line across the shaft, they get a concave in them that exerts much less point pressure on the shaft and it will slip with just about any oil if it's left like that. I would change that filter, too.
 
This is a controversial statement, that might get me banned for life. Got to live on the edge.....

It won't matter. If you regularly use the Shell W+ version, it could / might / cause a problem with a starter in a very few airplanes.

If you change your oil every 50 hours or 4 months, you're good. Beyond good. With the Oil A vs Oil B, there's more emotion / feeling good about the choice vs actual performance.
 
Around here, there are so few mechanics that I wouldn't do anything to jeopardize my standing in the shop. I'd keep that oil for as long as I always do, say nothing about it, and the next time I had work done I'd just say, "no oil change this time, please."
 
WDD said:
This is a controversial statement, that might get me banned for life. Got to live on the edge.....

It won't matter. If you regularly use the Shell W+ version, it could / might / cause a problem with a starter in a very few airplanes.

If you change your oil every 50 hours or 4 months, you're good. Beyond good. With the Oil A vs Oil B, there's more emotion / feeling good about the choice vs actual performance.
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Are you a mechanic with experience with those starter drives? I am, and I had trouble with those additives in SEVERAL O-200s. The same drive is used in the O-300, which means higher loading and greater potential for slippage.
 
WDD said:
This is a controversial statement, that might get me banned for life. Got to live on the edge.....

It won't matter. If you regularly use the Shell W+ version, it could / might / cause a problem with a starter in a very few airplanes.

If you change your oil every 50 hours or 4 months, you're good. Beyond good. With the Oil A vs Oil B, there's more emotion / feeling good about the choice vs actual performance.
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For oil overall, yes. Keep it relatively fresh and it doesn't matter all that much. BUT as @Dan Thomas points out the anti friction additive in engines that use that specific starter adapter (like the OP's) it is an issue.
This isn't a Phillips vs Shell thing, it's a specific additive, used in a specific engine.
 
JjCc Jay said:
You're fine. One run with W100+ won't hurt a thing. The additive is diluted after the first flight, and it's not going to grenade your starter adapter in 30 hours.
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There have been reports of starter adapters slipping after a few starts.
 
People don’t listen.

I would have a chat with the owner. The overall tone being that unapproved maintenance with unapproved materials that reduce the reliability of your aircraft isn’t conducive to a safe flying experience.

If they had asked for your pre-approval to perform this maintenance you certainly would have had the opportunity to either refuse or specify the correct oil if you agreed.

Failing to ask and performing unapproved service your engine with the incorrect oil that wasn’t on the items requested list isn’t recreational or preventative maintenance, it could induce more expensive maintenance and reliability issues. As pointed out in this thread, issues with starter adapters slipping when serviced with unapproved fluids could be the cause of future issues.
 
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