Using descriptors instead of N number

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Unit74, Sep 10, 2019 at 7:25 AM.

  1. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    I think on a day with 6 white Cessnas in the pattern it'd be fun to say "white Cessna, mind if I sneak in front of you" and watch the receiver light up. Same if there's a bunch of 2001-2012 172's ("3 Sierra Papa, mind if I sneak in front of you") or a bunch of ex-ERAU planes.
     
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  2. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

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    This is entertaining, reading all of these far fetched hypothetical scenarios. I'll just say that in 40 years of flying I've never once gotten to an airport where there were five people in the pattern calling themselves "white Cessna" and I would think that if you were "white Cessna" on final and someone called in as "white Cessna" on the 45 you'd pipe in and say "hey pal, I'm the white Cessna, get your own handle!" :)

    In the end it's just communication, where you're at and what you're going to do. You could just be Bob for all that matters. The one's that bother me are people who get on the radio before they've figured out what they are going to do or say and let all of us in on his or her period of indecision with a lengthy transmission full of stuff I don't need to know.
     
  3. gdwindowpane

    gdwindowpane Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    I'm just a student pilot but this sight picture doesn't seem like it will turn out all that great unless something changes...
     
  4. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I just use my best falsetto voice..... ''I'm going to land now, out of my way boys....''

    Don't laugh. I knew a girl that pretty much would do just that.
     
  5. IK04

    IK04 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Has the percentage of instrument rated pilots decreased, or has the cost of flying kept all the weekend wonders trapped in their local area? Those seem like the scenarios where people would just give up using their tail number callsign...

    Communicating with ATC seems to be the common link in all this Oshkosh radio calls nonsense... If there is no need to talk to "the man," then you could get away with calling yourself Bob or blue Cherokee on every flight.
     
  6. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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    "...paints a pretty good picture..." are you taking credit for the pun, or did it just happen?:D
     
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  7. IK04

    IK04 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Once upon a time, there was a Stearman with the worst radio in the world. The pilot would simply hold his microphone in the wind and key the mike to advise the tower he was inbound. Tower would acknowledge his call sign and continue to make normal radio calls, sequence him in to land and never asked him questions.

    Kinda like the old "Hello you on the ground, this is me in the air!"
     
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  8. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Cleared for Takeoff

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    Print out the FCC regulation (quoted earlier in the thread) and ask him about his procedure vs. the procedure required by the regulation.

    My guess is that he's never seen that regulation.
     
  9. danhagan

    danhagan Pattern Altitude

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    Yep! Mine is "Are Vee 7 A, blue, white, silver and gold, on final 165 knots, never mine I already landed" ... ;):p

    Well no, but we're training intensive and having the CFI make one call and the student stammer the next causes confusion (are there 2 white Cessnas?). Had this last week *AND* a foreigner kept calling 2 mile final instead of saying he was on a practice GPS approach and it WASN'T final, it was the FAF 8.8 miles away:mad:
     
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  10. iflyvfr

    iflyvfr Pattern Altitude

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    That may be true, but think about what I/you now know: this plane is coming in on the opposite side of the runway, it's a twin so it's physical shape, speed, and the pattern it flies are quite different than mine. So I can adjust knowing the twin will likely get there before me to better fit into the flow (left DW for example). Using tail number only provides none of those useful data points and remember there's no tower to sequence traffic in the pattern.
     
  11. flybill

    flybill Filing Flight Plan

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    I say make of airplane and tail number out of habit. I do want to know the make of other planes. If I am in a Cessna172 6 miles out and I hear another plane call that they are 7 miles out I need to know if it’s a gulfstream 650 doing 200 knots or a piper cub doing 70 knots. I have run into this in the Bahamas a lot. 2 planes headed for the same airport and similar distances from the runway. One is a king air and one is a small single engine Cherokee. Guess who gets to go first...?
     
  12. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

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    You know someone with a Piper Cub that will do 70 knots?
     
  13. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

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    Me! Me!
    I'm usually between 60-65 when I turn base, 55-60 on final.
    I can go even slower in the pattern if it will tick off the right person.

    Silvare, I just had my heart broken. I made an offer on a '47 8A, and someone beat my price.
     
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  14. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer Pattern Altitude

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    Probably won't get close enough to see the green stripes. I just want to know there are two and where each one is! Not confusing at all.
     
  15. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    FAA is able to yank my ticket. FCC is not.
     
  16. Dav8or

    Dav8or Final Approach

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    You're of German ancestry aren't you? Somehow buttholes and poop sprang to mind. Anyhow, I'll be sure to include my full call sign from now on so you can make me out from the hundreds of white Cessnas in your local pattern. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Cleared for Takeoff

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    The FCC has the ability to enforce their regulations.

    But why would that matter? It's a regulation. You now know it. Is it that hard to follow it?
     
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  18. Justin M

    Justin M Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Actually, call signs help me to differentiate between airplanes in my mind. I know I can't read the numbers, but that's not what I use them for. i use them to keep track of the planes in my mind.

    Just don't change your call sign mid-pattern or I won't know if you're a second aircraft or the same one with a new name.

    E.G. N123 is on downwind, N678 is on base. When N123 calls base, I still remember N678's last call was on base.

    But I find numbers easier to remember than colors.
     
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  19. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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    I use "Experimental Zodiac 601 kilo echo" on initial contact, and it often gets crazy after that. Sometimes ATC thinks I'm a Quest Kodiak turboprop, and other times - especially when they ask for my type identifier (charley hotel six zero) - they think I'm a Sikorsky helicopter.
    :dunno:

    I fly a "low wing blue and white LSA", so that's the best way to visually describe my airplane in a traffic pattern.
     
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  20. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    Yes. I am

    Cool. Very considerate of you.
     
  21. David

    David Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Or just don't use the radio at uncontrolled fields. Problem solved!!!!
     
  22. Stevea621j

    Stevea621j Pre-Flight

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    I prefer using Maverick as my callsign. "Maverick, 2 miles SE inbound for overhead break to RW 27. Traffic in the area please get out of my way"
     
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  23. kath

    kath Line Up and Wait

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    FWIW, I heard this ("Cessna 172 <tailnumber>) all through Canada. From both controllers and pilots on CTAF. Must be a cultural thing.

    Seems like a good idea to me. Saves Approach the trouble of asking "what type Cessna?"
     
  24. PW_Plack

    PW_Plack Pre-takeoff checklist

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    So, in that circumstance, call him "white Cessna. The FCC does not require you to identify his radio transmissions by callsign, only your own.

    In the US, your aircraft registration is an FCC radio license. The FCC requires transmissions be correctly identified in any licensed service so interference can be tracked to the correct source for addressing transmitter repair, among other reasons.

    The FCC is already less stringent in aviation than in any other licensed service about requiring use of callsigns. I don't understand the need to make aviation more like CB radio by ignoring the law.
     
  25. SToL

    SToL Line Up and Wait

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    I just say; N1234 inbound, ASL?
     
  26. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    My plane is a licensed station? I’m not being snide, this is news to me. Where is this documented? You’d think there would be a paper like the airworthiness cert in the plane.
     
  27. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    This also seems to contradict that statement.

    Title 47: Telecommunication, PART 87—AVIATION SERVICES, Subpart B—Applications and Licenses

    § 87.18 Station license required.

    (a) Except as noted in paragraph (b) of this section, stations in the aviation service must be licensed by the FCC either individually or by fleet.

    (b) An aircraft station is licensed by rule and does not need an individual license issued by the FCC if the aircraft station is not required by statute, treaty, or agreement to which the United States is signatory to carry a radio, and the aircraft station does not make international flights or communications. Even though an individual license is not required, an aircraft station licensed by rule must be operated in accordance with all applicable operating requirements, procedures, and technical specifications found in this part.




    I should have read the last sentence. Did not know that.
     
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  28. mryan75

    mryan75 Line Up and Wait

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    I've used "XYZ traffic, N7xxxR is a red Cherokee, left downwind 33, XYZ" before. Takes 2.6 more seconds, gives a bit more information.
     
  29. IK04

    IK04 Cleared for Takeoff

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    After picking up a new C-152 to replace one of our older C-150s, I decided to fly it into SJC and see how it would do an ILS approach. I called approach with make and tail number...

    The prop on a 152 will allow for a high speed descent without overspeeding the engine, so I was able to keep up a pretty good speed on final.

    When I was switched over to tower, he replied, "Citation 460, cleared to land 31 Left, maintain best speed, 737 on final behind you."

    He obviously didn't recognize the tail number!
     
  30. MuseChaser

    MuseChaser Line Up and Wait

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    In my opinion, as I said, "Skyhawk" is the best call; it removes any possible confusion between type numbers and N numbers, AND the huge range of possible performance and lack of clarity by just calling "Cessna." "Cessna 172 34Bravo" works, and is better than just "Cessna 34 Bravo," but could obviously lead to some number confusion. "Skyhawk 34 Bravo" is clearer, more precise, and shorter. What's not to love?
     
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  31. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    there is a sticker on mine about FCC, didnt think much about it until now
     
  32. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

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    Blame it on YouTube that's where all these bad habits are spreading from :)
     
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  33. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Cleared for Takeoff

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    Canada radio transmitters are not governed by the FCC. The equivalent Canadian regulations, while overall similar to ours, will have many differences.

    14 CFR 87.18 (as posted above)

    When I started flying in 1981, every US registered airplane had to have a radio station license if any radio transmitters were installed. Each pilot, prior to solo, also had to have a restricted radiotelephone operator's permit. Those requirements were later loosened and are now only required for international flights.
     
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  34. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

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    I predict 5 pages easy....
     
  35. PW_Plack

    PW_Plack Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yep - "Radio license" used to be the second "R" in the documentation checklist acronym, "ARROW."
     
  36. IK04

    IK04 Cleared for Takeoff

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    My Restricted Radiotelephone license was lost when my wallet was stolen. I wanted to replace it, but by then they were no longer required...
     
  37. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    “ABC airport, yellow cub downwind runway 6”. “Yellow cub on the downwind, I am also in a yellow cub down wind, there is a yellow cub on base and another on final”
     
  38. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Cleared for Takeoff

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    By the mid-1990s, mine, from 1981, had become mostly unreadable from wear. They were no longer required for domestic flights but, as an airline pilot, I had to get a new one for international. I no longer keep it in my wallet where is will wear so quickly.

    I have to show it on every checkride (every 9 months) and line check.
     
  39. Justin M

    Justin M Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I too call Skyhawk, especially when requesting VFR services. I still get asked "what type", but that's ok, I just respond Cessna 172.

    I have recently tried to slow down my initial call up. After the initial, then I try to speak concisely and quickly, but I am trying to speak my call sign number slower, since it is the first time they are hearing it.
     
  40. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    [​IMG]

    ;)