USAFA Questions

Lindberg

Final Approach
Joined
Sep 25, 2013
Messages
9,953
Location
North Texas
Display Name
Lindberg
My son is currently a rising highschool junior in a public-school IB program. Top 1% in his class. He's in JROTC and CAP. And learning to fly gliders. He wants to go to the Air Force Academy.

I'm wondering if there's anyone here who could answer some questions about admission with recent information, rather than scuttlebutt.

In the near term, he's considering switching to home school, but I can't imagine that would improve his admissions chances over being too in his class at IB.
 
Has he considered a ROTC scholarship to a school where he'll learn some social skills? I have a lot of friends that went to the zoo; many of them don't want their children to do the same. It's a solid education in a military manner, but the gold bars are all the same at the end of the degree - ROTC or USAFA makes no difference.

Well done for him though to be doing so well. Best of luck!
 
Has he considered a ROTC scholarship to a school where he'll learn some social skills? I have a lot of friends that went to the zoo; many of them don't want their children to do the same. It's a solid education in a military manner, but the gold bars are all the same at the end of the degree - ROTC or USAFA makes no difference.
Yes, that's definitely an option, and in fact was recommended by a member of our club who went to the academy but his son went AFROTC.
Well done for him though to be doing so well. Best of luck!
Thanks, I'm very proud!
 
My son is currently a rising highschool junior in a public-school IB program. Top 1% in his class. He's in JROTC and CAP. And learning to fly gliders. He wants to go to the Air Force Academy.

I'm wondering if there's anyone here who could answer some questions about admission with recent information, rather than scuttlebutt.

In the near term, he's considering switching to home school, but I can't imagine that would improve his admissions chances over being too in his class at IB.

I have some exposure to the process. What do you want to know?
 
"Recent" information, no.

But I have to believe that being top 1% and in IB programs looks a whole lot better than any home school would. And of course, he would lose the ability to get letters of recommendation from his teachers and principal and such.

Russ, USAFA '96
 
As mentioned, medical and nomination are the hardest parts. If you haven’t figured out the nomination path, that’s the first thing. Your representative, two US Senators, and the Vice President have an exceedingly small number of nominations available. There are a very, very few alternative paths.

Find a local Academy Liaison Officer and engage with then to prepare for the process.
 
A third option is to get a degree then go OTS. I personally went 4-year AFROTC (Det 005 Auburn), but as mentioned and in my experience on the non-flying side of the USAF (ICBMs and Logistics from base level to HQ Air Force (HAF) at the Pentagon), 2Lts are all treated the same regardless of commissioning source.
 
Last edited:
Has he considered a ROTC scholarship to a school where he'll learn some social skills? I have a lot of friends that went to the zoo; many of them don't want their children to do the same. It's a solid education in a military manner, but the gold bars are all the same at the end of the degree - ROTC or USAFA makes no difference.

Well done for him though to be doing so well. Best of luck!

From my lens...One important point that often gets overlooked: after a few years at Colorado Springs, he’ll join the tight-knit community of service academy graduates often nicknamed “ring knockers,” thanks to the class rings that quietly signal that shared background. That connection can pay real dividends later on, both during his active-duty career and long after he transitions into civilian life, because alumni from the academies tend to look out for one another professionally and personally.
 
From my lens...One important point that often gets overlooked: after a few years at Colorado Springs, he’ll join the tight-knit community of service academy graduates often nicknamed “ring knockers,” thanks to the class rings that quietly signal that shared background. That connection can pay real dividends later on, both during his active-duty career and long after he transitions into civilian life, because alumni from the academies tend to look out for one another professionally and personally.
While true and I'm certainly not discounting that after my 20 years in the USAF and now 16+ years as a Dept of War Civilian, but the same thing does exist outside of the Service Academies, to one degree or another based upon academic and extra-curricular affiliations, particularly post-service.
 
When during the medical, and they are measuring sitting height, if he's is on the shorter side, tell him to sit up straight and don't slouch, or he will be doing it again.
 
Not an insider, but my good friends have included 2 Air Force Academy grads, 2 Naval Academy grads, and a Wrest Point grad.

There is no greater advantage for a career military person to have.

4 of those men became famous, only one was a failure.

For any readers here, not thinking Academies, a cautionary tale. The failure got into drugs, and flew without either an airplane or parachute. That was a very sad funeral service, since I knew his whole family.

Neither drugs no alcohol are compatible with high stress careers.
 
A few general comments and tips. My experience is more with USMA, but to some extent the process is fungible:

1. The academies look at the whole person. They want to see high academic, test score, extracurricular, athletic, and leadership indicators. Looks like your son is on the right track, just needs to fine tune. You didn't mention a sport. He needs a sport. Doesn't need to be a state champ, but does need to participate in something.

2. Every high school has an admissions liaison officer (ALO). USAFA does a very good job of this. Find yours, make contact, and start talking. I would 100% ask the ALO before making a home school decision.

3. Apply for the summer seminar program. This functions as a sort of scouting process for the academies, as well as giving the kids a look at the lifestyle. Well worth the effort.

4. The Congressional nomination thing is a bit misleading. It sounds political but is not. Members have two choices. They can either pick one nominee and 9 alternates, or pick a pool of 10 and let the academy decide. The academies push the latter and most members do that, because it maximizes the chance of more than one admission from the district. The pool is selected by a board that usually consists of a staff member, several retired officers, and the ALO. If you focus on the academy published admissions criteria, the nomination will mostly take care of itself.

5. As others mentioned, the medical screening process can become an obstacle. Many kids miss their deadlines and fall out of the pool. The process is not nearly as bad as the FAA, but if your son has anything in his medical history that might raise questions, expect a snipe hunt for documentation or testing. OTOH, the military is not idiots about some of the childhood diagnosis issues that plague the FAA process.

6. Have several fallback options. As others have said, there are plenty of pathways to the goal of being an air force officer. Academy grads hold no advantage in the career process that follows, other than a network of close friends.

7. Many kids don't make it their first try. Going to school for a year or two and applying again is common, and the academies encourage it. I did that. Rejected by USMA first try, went to college for 2 years and did ROTC, then got in. I graduated top 5%.

8. Some elite schools have very obtuse processes. If you want to get into HYPS, it hinges on whatever secret social alchemy they have designed, and consultants are happy to charge you tens of thousands of dollars to build your 10 year old's resume to meet what they think that will be. The service academies by contrast are very open and public with what they want to see. There's no secret agenda there. Visit the academy, get the admissions briefing, meet the ALO, read the website, go to the congressional briefs, do what they say, and trust the process.
 
Last edited:
From my lens...One important point that often gets overlooked: after a few years at Colorado Springs, he’ll join the tight-knit community of service academy graduates often nicknamed “ring knockers,” thanks to the class rings that quietly signal that shared background. That connection can pay real dividends later on, both during his active-duty career and long after he transitions into civilian life, because alumni from the academies tend to look out for one another professionally and personally.
Heard this several times, never saw it on active duty. At least not any more prevalent than the connections via any other alumni network. I think the whole academy "ring knocker" thing is a relic of long ago.

OP, some thoughts, Academy and otherwise:

I echo the comments about considering AFROTC over the AFA. And, for the same reasons people are recommending AFROTC over AFA, I'll say to shy away from other non-traditional colleges (Colorado School of Mines, Milwaukee School of Engineering, Texas A&M, Citadel, etc). Personally, I'm a fan of Big State School. Hard to beat being in a campus community with ~35k other people right around your age group, all with varying interests and perspectives. Not all learning occurs in the classroom.

It sounds like he wants to fly. Sounds like he's on the right path, but as others have said, it's the medical that'll often get you. To fly for the Air Force, you gotta pass an Initial Flying Class I (IFC I) physical. And when I went through AFROTC long ago, the way the timeline worked, is you committed to commission before taking the IFC I. Saw several people get selected for a flight slot, then lose it due to failing the medical, and find themselves committed to commission as something else (engineer, logistics, etc). Which isn't the end of the world, of course, and depending on what you failed for, if it's correctable and/or waiver-able, you can get other chances to get picked up for flight school once commissioned.

Bottom line, I don't know how to ensure you're able to pass the IFC I before committing to the Air Force, but I'm sure there has to be ways.

Finally, if he wants to fly, I'd at least take a look at the local ANG / Air Force Reserve units. They can also be a path to wings.
 
Find a local Academy Liaison Officer and engage with then to prepare for the process.
Would like to do this, but my understanding is that he can't speak to the ALO under after applying, which would not be until this Spring.
 
He says when he was an ALO, they were encouraged to talk to kids at all phases. That has been a while so it might have changed. Suggest you get your ALO contact and reach out. Worst they can do is say no.

He says USAFA has nothing against home schoolers. When he was an ALO he was sent to home school expos to talk to kids and do presentations.

HOWEVER, he also says the service academies love IB and it is a strong positive in the admissions process, mainly because the program and outcomes are standardized. Home school is very variable.
 
More info:

The ALO program operates using two distinct types of officers who guide candidates through the admissions process:
Mentor ALO: Assigned when you open your application, this local resource answers questions, reviews your student resume, and helps you navigate the complex admissions process.
Evaluation (Interview) ALO: Assigned after you submit your application, this officer (often located in a different state) conducts your formal interview and scores you across areas like leadership, adaptability, and ethical judgment.
 
A note from my personal experience: the service academies are basically stress factories. The program is designed to put you under constant stress for 4 years, so when you get into the service it will seem easy. The general consensus is USMA > USNA > USAFA when it comes to being stressful, but all of them are demanding by design. IB schools can be stressful also, and a lot of kids bail out because of that, so I think the academies see IB success as an indicator that you can handle a more demanding environment.
 
A little “ring knocker” anecdote.

My University of Cincinnati Class ring is very similar in design to West Point’s. Not a few times, I’ve been asked what class was I in. Mostly by non graduates of West Point but with some Army connections.

As far as benefits of the AFA over other commissioning sources, in my 32.5 years as USAF civilian engineer I’ve met folks from all of them and from butter bars to four stars Rated and Non-Rated. Couldn’t tell the difference from one to the other regarding commission source.

Personally, my inclination is to go the ROTC or OTS Route for social interaction of a big school population.

The biggest AFA benefit might be one not mentioned yet. You get a free education while getting paid (albeit having deductions for books, laundry and other items), thus likely avoiding student loans. And a guaranteed job at graduation (which you may or may not be really happy with).
 
Last edited:
He hasn't really done traditional team sports, but he's a USAC climber and on one of the best youth teams in the country. He just went to Youth Nationals for one of his disciplines.

More than enough, and should be a strong discriminator.
 
A little “ring knocker” anecdote.
I'll add a few of mine. ROTC grad myself, worked in space operations so what AFA grads I met were non-pilot types.

One was a good buddy. Complete antithesis of what you consider an academy cadet...probably the sloppiest officer I knew. Wrinkled uniforms, slouched, etc. Didn't expect that of an academy grad. His fiance found another woman's earrings on his nightstand. THAT'S sloppy. Good artist, though...one of his paintings still hangs in my house.

I can't remember why he didn't go for pilot training, but he said if you DIDN'T and were medically qualified, you were called in before a group of officers and quizzed as to *why*. This was, apparently, considered a character flaw.

He described his first day in the academy...run ragged in the traditional fashion. Tired and depressed, he settled into bed as the lights were turned out. Looking up, he found the ceiling glowing...stars, planets, comets, etc. Back in those days, laundry detergents has phosphates in them that would glow in the dark. You could add some water and paint with them, and because the detergent powder was white, it was undetectable when the lights were on. He found it a real comfort after a hard day. Maybe that's why he went into space operations rather than becoming a pilot.

He wasn't typical of the other academy officers I knew. I got along fine with them, but got the impression from the NCOs that they weren't well thought-of by the enlisted folks. Had a bunch of AFA cadets come by the operations room on a tour one day. One of our majors was the on-duty engineer and was explaining some of the operations to them. One sergeant leaned over a partition and said to the major, "Hey, Frank, it's time to do ranging on Sat Seven."

Thought those cadet's necks were going to snap. The major just said, "Yeah baby, go ahead." (to the non-military among us, an enlisted man addressing an officer by their first name is a serious no-no, and an officer calling an NCO "baby" is a close second.) BTW, Frank had an Air Medal, despite not being a pilot or navigator. Apparently manned one of the monitoring stations on a mission that flew an aircraft through the residue of a Russian nuclear test.

My buddy was in one of the last classes at the academy before women were accepted. It sounded like things were pretty raw, before that. Described some skits that wouldn't be allowed, nowaways.

Each academy class picked a motto. The final all-male class picked "LCWB" for their motto. Officially, it stood for "Loyalty, Courage, Wisdom, Bravado." It actually stood for, "Last Class with B***s." IIRC, they were required to change it.

Favorite story was when a woman speaker came to talk about the equal rights amendment. The cadets were pretty rowdy, and she eventually lost her temper.

"It's a well-known fact that men your age masturbate an average of three times a night!"

One cadet stood up: "All, right, who's been holding down the mean!"

Ron "Not me" Wanttaja
 
Would like to do this, but my understanding is that he can't speak to the ALO under after applying, which would not be until this Spring.

He may not be "assigned" an ALO, but I'd find it hard to believe that an ALO wouldn't be willing to talk to him. I was an ALO for a couple of years, and "recruiting" was one of our main functions. I would talk to anybody at any time about any aspect of the process. He needs to find out who the local ALOs are and call them up!
 
The biggest AFA benefit might be one not mentioned yet. You get a free education while getting paid (albeit having deductions for books, laundry and other items), thus likely avoiding student loans. And a guaranteed job at graduation (which you may or may not be really happy with).

You get paid to do ROTC too. Full scholarship by junior year, or you get kicked out. Most of my freshman class were full rides from the get-go. Though many of them didn't make it to graduation......probably a majority of them. Standard small town people who didn't know how to navigate a college town, and just got drunk every night and failed out of school. Big fish in a small pond type of deal. Otherwise, it was a great program, and nearly 23 years after I started, I am glad for what opportunities it presented me. My academy friends, as you say, are indistinguishable from the rest of us. It isn't some secret handshake, bones club kinda thing. It maybe is a "oh you were in C company in 2003? Weird we never met" kinda deal. It's a big school. Not everyone knew each other. I think its a strong bond in A pool in pensacola for a bunch of know-nothing ensigns. Beyond that, it comes up less and less each year after.
 
My son graduated USAFA. Throughout the application process, he got medically DQ’d twice. Initially he was discouraged, but I told him you can get a waiver for anything. I’m living proof with a closed-head injury preceding my 26 years as an Army aviator. Of course, that’s not exactly true, but if you work through the medical process, most conditions have a waiver path. But some are hard-stops. He’s burning holes in the sky flying the KC-46, somewhere hot right now.
 
I think its a strong bond in A pool in pensacola for a bunch of know-nothing ensigns. Beyond that, it comes up less and less each year after.

I find it's an inverted bell curve. A lot of little cliques at initial active duty training because you know each other. Within a few years you have way more in common with your unit and career cohort friends and the academy thing fades into the background. I NEVER saw it come up in a professional context; in my experience we avoided it because of the "ring knocker" nonsense. And TBH most people think you are a weirdo if you wear your ring except at formal events. I have misplaced mine for years at a time and stumbled across it when cleaning out old shoeboxes.

After you get out and get older, the classmate thing gets to be a big deal again. My class has a big party every year in Chapel Hill, NC to watch Army-Navy. As our remaining few active duty folks have hit 4 stars, a pretty solid contingent of the class has attended their promotions and retirements. We had a huge party at Kurilla's assumption of command at CENTCOM, and another big one when Randy George retired as Chief of Staff of the Army. And we had a huge 35th reunion in New Orleans in 2023, hosted by classmate and governor of LA John Bell Edwards. Tailgated in Baton Rouge at the Governor's mansion before watching Army Football get sacrificed to LSU.

In our case, it helps that we spent most of our careers at war. Started out with Panama and Desert Storm as Lieutenants, then a ton of battalion commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan, and key SOF leaders during the extended GWOT. Four Ranger battalion commanders, one Ranger Regiment commander, and a Delta Force deputy commander.

I keep in regular contact with at least 20 of my old classmates. Took one of them flying last week.

inverted.jpg
 
Last edited:
After you get out and get older, the classmate thing gets to be a big deal again.

Forgot to mention this. I imagine that's true like you say. But you old geezers don't have anything else to do by then anyway :)

For a guy like me who just went to the airlines when I "got out" of active duty, it has had no bearing at all. I imagine if I'd sought out other defense industry opportunities, that might be different. I think Naval aviation is particularly not impressed at large with academy vs other (maybe uniquely so?), but even so, some of those very long connections do matter, were I applying to a high end role somewhere, and the hiring folks were academy grads. I'm not sure. I don't think it would ever take someone like me out of the running, but if it were me vs one of my USNA buds, hard to say. Might matter then.
 
For a guy like me who just went to the airlines when I "got out" of active duty, it has had no bearing at all. I imagine if I'd sought out other defense industry opportunities, that might be different. I think Naval aviation is particularly not impressed at large with academy vs other (maybe uniquely so?), but even so, some of those very long connections do matter, were I applying to a high end role somewhere, and the hiring folks were academy grads. I'm not sure. I don't think it would ever take someone like me out of the running, but if it were me vs one of my USNA buds, hard to say. Might matter then.

Some grads seek to leverage connections for their 2nd career. Others do not. I'm more referring to when everyone hits 60ish and start retiring. Then the social aspect becomes a big thing for those with time and money on their hands.

I steer a wide berth around classmate connections where business is concerned. My company had a contract in CENTCOM for 15 years. During that time, one of my plebe roommates was the Chief of Staff and one of my rugby teammates was the commander. I never spoke a word about it to either of them.

But yeah, impending geezerdom does come with increased nostalgia for long ago experiences. That nostalgia can be a surprisingly strong bond. In my case, when I experienced a devastating life event, several classmates reached out and reestablished relationships that helped me try to rebuild my life.
 
Last edited:
In 21 years in the USAF, I never saw someone held back because they didn't go to USAFA and I never saw a USAFA grad get the nod over a non-grad simply because of where they went to school. "Ring knocker" is only a thing to people who try to make it one.
 
In 21 years in the USAF, I never saw someone held back because they didn't go to USAFA and I never saw a USAFA grad get the nod over a non-grad simply because of where they went to school. "Ring knocker" is only a thing to people who try to make it one.
I'm very glad to hear that. I always assumed that attending/graduating from one of the academies gave you a leg up on the competition because the deck was stacked that way.
 
Contact a local AF ring-knocker, there are those that provide mentorship for aspiring academy applicants. If you don't know someone like that, contact the nearest AF recruiting office, they should be able to put you in touch. Mentorship for the applicant and advising for the parents is (or should be) part of the process.
 
Back
Top