US Airways A320 Crash Into Hudson River

Re: US Air A320 Crashes into Hudson River

Oh sorry - I was wondering why there was no active topic.
 
ReverendSlappy said:
Not shooting the messenger by any means, but that's certainly got this aviation neophyte's hooey-dar beeping.

FWIW, there have been interviews with people who have said they heard "explosions" or "bangs" in both the left and right engines, individuals who only heard them in the left, and individuals who only heard them in the right. Not drawing any conclusions or anything, but those two things seem to stand in contradiction to one another.
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Pjsmith said:
I agree, this seems a little BS-ish. I'm sure the airbus can download all sorts of things. The question is, can it UPload data, and to where does it upload? And if it were uploaded, would it go to a place that mechanics have access to it? Just speculating, but if I were running an airline, I'd sure as hell not have that type of data outside of some really tight control. I dunno, maybe US Airways does things that way. Does anyone know if this type of 'real time' system really exists, and if it does if it would be allowed to touch the FDR or CVR?
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Totally agree. Way to early to jump to conclusion, I just thought it was an interesting take on another website. I probably should not have posted it.

In any event, the pilot flew the plane and made a great landing.
 
Pjsmith said:
Does anyone know if this type of 'real time' system really exists, and if it does if it would be allowed to touch the FDR or CVR?
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Yes it does, and no, it is not connected to the CVR or FDR.
 
Pjsmith said:
.... Does anyone know if this type of 'real time' system really exists, and if it does if it would be allowed to touch the FDR or CVR?
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Yes it does. I've been warned of an impending PAC failure by maintenance before we had any indication in the cockpit. The Airbus records and uploads hundreds of data points to the company almost realtime. A mechanic disclosing the data right now is looking at possible negative career progression no matter what it says.
 
PittsDriver said:
According to the FAA registry, he's a commercial glider pilot as well. I bet this is the largest glider he's ever flown.
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Hah! One would have to imagine. :D

Also, from The Smoking Gun article linked earlier:

Sullenberger, who now must be considered the front runner to replace Hillary Clinton as New York's junior United States Senator, is also the founder of Safety Reliability Methods... Business should soon be booming... Expect his "executive career highlights" to be updated shortly.
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As one Homer J. Simpson might say, "it's funny because it's true." :rofl:
 
I'm not sure this is going to come out right, but here goes.

I've talked before about how folks in an airplane have signed up for the risk of flying and folks on the ground haven't, and that an aviator is supposed to protect the lives of his passengers without taking the lives of people on the ground.

I don't know where the bird strike occurred, but there is NOWHERE in that area to put down an airplane of that size other than TEB and EWR without likely killing a bunch of folks on the ground. I salute the crew for making a very quick decision to put the airplane down while it was controllable, and on their choice to ditch in the river rather than coming down in NJ.

I don't know if the fate of people on the ground popped into the captain's mind at all, but this could have been SO bad if they'd done something different.

Bravo Zulu, indeed. Or, as we used to say at Council Fire:

Woolegan, Woolegan!
 
maddog52 said:
Yes it does. I've been warned of an impending PAC failure by maintenance before we had any indication in the cockpit. The Airbus records and uploads hundreds of data points to the company almost realtime. A mechanic disclosing the data right now is looking at possible negative career progression no matter what it says.
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I've got a friend who used to do QA for Virgin, and they pulled data from airplanes at least once a day when the airplane was at a turnover or at the end of the flight day, and used it both for maintenance and other analytical functions. He never gave me the impression that the data was transmitted while the airplane was flying, though. I think hecalled it a quick access recorder something or other, because it was something the company could pull as needed, and while it stored all the data it didn't have all the rugged survival and locate-me features of the "official" FDR and CVR.
 
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maddog52 said:
Yes it does. I've been warned of an impending PAC failure by maintenance before we had any indication in the cockpit. The Airbus records and uploads hundreds of data points to the company almost realtime. A mechanic disclosing the data right now is looking at possible negative career progression no matter what it says.
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To bad the geese didn't have that feature.
 
TMetzinger said:
I've got a friend who used to do QA for JetBlue, and they pulled data from airplanes at least once a day when the airplane was at a turnover or at the end of the flight day, and used it both for maintenance and other analytical functions. She never gave me the impression that the data was transmitted while the airplane was flying, though. I think she called it a quick access recorder something or other, because it was something the company could pull as needed, and while it stored all the data it didn't have all the rugged survival and locate-me features of the "official" FDR and CVR.
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That function is available, but some companies actually have their aircraft report inflight. Don't know if US Airways pays for the option but I would be surprised if they didn't.
 
TMetzinger said:
I don't know where the bird strike occurred, but there is NOWHERE in that area to put down an airplane of that size other than TEB and EWR without likely killing a bunch of folks on the ground. I salute the crew for making a very quick decision to put the airplane down while it was controllable, and on their choice to ditch in the river rather than coming down in NJ.
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That was the first thing I thought of, too... but of course his decision made sense even if he was only trying to save his own butt. :D
I'm not sure what their altitude was when they suddenly became a glider flight, but I'll bet "Sully" just ignored those tempting nearby airports and decided to go for the nearest place with lots of elbow room, so he could get that flight overwith quickly with the best survival odds for all concerned. He may have been concerned about fire on board, which would negate any plan to try to stretch the glide to an airport. So it worked out fine- lots of wide-open flat water to land on- and put out the fires. :D
Wouldn't surprise me if he'd thought of this scenario before, studying the area...obviously a glider pilot! :D
 
The pilot of a Eurocopter (N451SA) has quite a story to tell. Pull up Passur's page for LGA: http://www4.passur.com/lga.html

Set the time to 15:26 and click "Normal" then "Start".

Watch our US Airways flight depart LGA, lose the engine over Bronx Park. Notice the GA aircraft flying north up the Hudson? That's our intrepid copter at 1000'. Suddenly he's got a windshield full of A320 heading at him... I'm sure TCAS was screaming for both of them.

The helicopter ditches altitude and heads west to get out of the way of the big airliner, before heading back over where the Airbus just ditched.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
The pilot of a Eurocopter (N451SA) has quite a story to tell. Pull up Passur's page for LGA: http://www4.passur.com/lga.html

Set the time to 15:26 and click "Normal" then "Start".

Watch our US Airways flight depart LGA, lose the engine over Bronx Park. Notice the GA aircraft flying north up the Hudson? That's our intrepid copter at 1000'. Suddenly he's got a windshield full of A320 heading at him... I'm sure TCAS was screaming for both of them.

The helicopter ditches altitude and heads west to get out of the way of the big airliner, before heading back over where the Airbus just ditched.
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That's amazing...
 
weirdjim said:
I've been looking for that record on Landings.com and can't find it. Mind giving me a direction?

Jim
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https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/

CHESLEY BURNETT SULLENBERGER III
Certificate: AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT
Rating(s):
AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
COMMERCIAL PRIVILEGES
GLIDER
Type Ratings
A/A-320 A/AVR-146 A/B-737 A/BAE-146 A/DC-9
A/LR-JET
Limits
A-320 CIRC. APCH. - VMC ONLY.
Certificate: FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR
Rating(s):
FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR
AIRPLANE SINGLE AND MULTIENGINE
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE
GLIDER
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also advanced ground instructor and flight engineer.
 
weirdjim said:
I've been looking for that record on Landings.com and can't find it. Mind giving me a direction?

Jim
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"Sully" has four FAA certificates:

1. ATP-ASMEL, commercial privileges in Gliders, type ratings in A-320, AVR-146, B-737, BAE-146, DC-9, and LR-JET.

2. CFI-Airplane Single and Multiengine, Instrument Airplane, Glider

3. Ground Instructor - AGI, IGI

4. FE-Turbojet

I just looked up C Sullenberger and it's the only record that came up.
 
mikea said:
Besides making a great water landing the plane had to good sense to be over water that has enough traffic on it that you almost walk from one side to the other. :smile:
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Not exactly - Here's a perspective you don't get from the news on TV:
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we are going to need a source on this one!!!


Geico266 said:
New info just came in came via a US Airways captain who says this came from a mechanic who saw the data. Word is that the Airbus can download flight data in real time. Apparently the plane did hit birds with an engine causing problems and the pilots shut down the wrong engine. Then they tried a restart on the bad engine.

In any event, they remembered to fly the dang airplane!
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Just to help steer us all in the right direction, one reporter said emphatically, "We need to get this information out to pilots... this is how it's done!" Sure glad he thought of it.
 
You know, it seems, and i'm not second guessing at all, since the outcome was amazing, but it seems like the pilot could have turned back to LGA and landed safely. Any locals know why that would not be possible?
 
SkyHog said:
You know, it seems, and i'm not second guessing at all, since the outcome was amazing, but it seems like the pilot could have turned back to LGA and landed safely. Any locals know why that would not be possible?
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He was too far away.
 
SkyHog said:
You know, it seems, and i'm not second guessing at all, since the outcome was amazing, but it seems like the pilot could have turned back to LGA and landed safely. Any locals know why that would not be possible?
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I've not flown into LGA, but I've flown very close to it when flying to Farmingdale (Long Island). I can't see how turning back would have worked. It certainly didn't look to me like they had enough altitude to assure a safe return to LGA. Even if they made it to the airport grounds, whether or not they would've been able to line up with one of the runways is another matter entirely. They would have surely lost altitude in the turn, thus making it less likely they would have succeeded.

Had they failed to make LGA, they would have most likely crashed into a densely populated residential neighborhood, not only probably killing everyone on board, but also people in their homes. This fact alone would make me unwilling to turn back, even in a small plane.

Had they made it to LGA and not lined up with the runway, they would have likely taken out lots of other structures, and run the risk of injuring/killing people on the ground and/or the passengers on board.

The first thing I thought when I saw how this played out was "That's absolutely what I would have done." (at least, I like to think that :redface:) The option they took did run the risk of the plane sinking and people drowning (which I would view as a pretty unlikely risk), but also minimized the risk of it taking out anyone else. There's also enough in the way of ferries, Coast Guard, etc. around that quick rescue aid was likely, as happened. I would actually consider it more likely to get a quick rescue where they landed in the Hudson than in the middle of Queens.
 
I discount entirely speculation about the pilots shutting down a wrong engine or any such rot; the level of training and professionalism maintained in today's airline cockpits does not allow that to be a legitimate consideration.

These guys performed heroically, executed in an unassailable way; and the cabin crew remind us just why they are there, and it ain't to ***** at about the coffee.
 
My girlfriend witnessed the whole thing from her office window. She called me screaming before it was even on the news. That crew kicked some serious ass!!! It really makes me want to take up some glider lessons.
 
I'm amazed no one has commented on Sully not following the proper side of the river for the Hudson river corridor. Did he not have the TAC showing him to stay on the jersey side when going south? Did he make his position call on 123.075?

PS. This is a joke,it is only a joke. If this had been a real comment you would have been directed where to go for further assistance.
 
SkyHog said:
You know, it seems, and i'm not second guessing at all, since the outcome was amazing, but it seems like the pilot could have turned back to LGA and landed safely. Any locals know why that would not be possible?
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There are bridges and buildings in the way. Same for a Teeterboro attempt. At that altitude in that location and terrain I'm sure it did not take him long to decide on the water. No chance in the river for the collateral damage that actually crashing a plane and the fire that would have happened if he tried for a dry landing.
 
Danos said:
My girlfriend witnessed the whole thing from her office window. She called me screaming before it was even on the news. That crew kicked some serious ass!!! It really makes me want to take up some glider lessons.
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Reminds me of the Gilmi Glider - that pilot also was also supposedly an experienced glider pilot.

(waiting for Tony and the other glider goobers to ring in about how we ALL should be taking glider lessons)
 
Well Ted now that you did, no need for Tony or the rest of us to chime in.....
 
And now you can become a fan of Sully on Facebook!

That didn't take long. He's already got over 5000 fans (including me).
 
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