US Airways A320 Crash Into Hudson River

TangoWhiskey said:
Image5 gives it away, with that Ardis Travel sign with phone number: 151 Park Avenue, East Rutherford, NJ 07073 (Just south of Teterboro Airport). Google Map it into Street View.
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Good thing that trailer was steerable both in front and back - I've been there with a normal trailer (by accident!) and it was absolutely terrible trying to maneuver.

I can't tell from the pictures exactly how that trailer is hitched to the tractor. I've never seen a trailer with a steerable *front* end like that before.
 
FO Jeff Skiles is throwing the first pitch at the Milwaukee Brewers' home opener today - And more importantly, he's returning to work on Monday. :yes:

Anyone know if Sully's back yet, or when he will be? I assume they'll put him with one of the "training captains" on the first flight back, just in case? What would be the SOP?
 
Skiles took 3 months off?? For what?? He sustained no injuries and there was no crash or loss of life to recover from emotionally.
They just dont make pilots like they used to.
 
RedBaron6 said:
Skiles took 3 months off?? For what?? He sustained no injuries and there was no crash or loss of life to recover from emotionally.
They just dont make pilots like they used to.
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I thought Skiles was saying he wanted to go back to work and was scheduled to be back in the cockpit the Monday after his last TV appearance (on Charlie Rose?)
 
Skiles will be the 1st of the crew to get back to work when he returns next Monday. Says it's not psychological that he's been away for so long but he's simply been too busy taking bows (for what I don't know-perhaps not completing his checklist and forgetting about the ditch switch??) all this time.
You have to wonder what truly heroic pilots like Dave Cronin, Al Haynes and Bob Schornstheimer, who faced much more daunting and terrifying situations than what Sully and Skiles faced, really think about the 'patting themselves on the back tour' this crew has participated in for the past 3 months.
 
RedBaron6 said:
Skiles will be the 1st of the crew to get back to work when he returns next Monday. Says it's not psychological that he's been away for so long but he's simply been too busy taking bows (for what I don't know-perhaps not completing his checklist and forgetting about the ditch switch??) all this time.
You have to wonder what truly heroic pilots like Dave Cronin, Al Haynes and Bob Schornstheimer, who faced much more daunting and terrifying situations than what Sully and Skiles faced, really think about the 'patting themselves on the back tour' this crew has participated in for the past 3 months.
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That is a pretty low blow. I have to wonder what you would say if he had the altitude and the ability to make Teterboro only to face windshear and then go down... with half as many survivors.
 
RedBaron6 said:
Skiles will be the 1st of the crew to get back to work when he returns next Monday. Says it's not psychological that he's been away for so long but he's simply been too busy taking bows (for what I don't know-perhaps not completing his checklist and forgetting about the ditch switch??) all this time.
You have to wonder what truly heroic pilots like Dave Cronin, Al Haynes and Bob Schornstheimer, who faced much more daunting and terrifying situations than what Sully and Skiles faced, really think about the 'patting themselves on the back tour' this crew has participated in for the past 3 months.
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Oh, get over it. It's the only positive story about aviation that I've seen in a LONG time. I want them to milk it for all it's worth.
 
KennyFlys said:
That is a pretty low blow. I have to wonder what you would say if he had the altitude and the ability to make Teterboro only to face windshear and then go down... with half as many survivors.
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It's not a low blow at all. It's the truth! Skiles is running around taking bows when he played absolutely no role in landing that plane or saving anyone on that flight.
Sully deserves great credit for sticking a beautiful water landing when he had perfect weather/river conditions and no other options. That's also the truth!
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
Oh, get over it. It's the only positive story about aviation that I've seen in a LONG time. I want them to milk it for all it's worth.
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There's nothing to "get over". Simply making observations on this pre-existing thread about the ridiculous and over the top nature of the hype.
Cheesehead don't you worry about the boys milking this for all its' worth. Sully was hiring an agent to sell his story before his uniform had dried out. That's why I made the comments I did earlier about those 3 truly heroic pilots and how they view this milking exercise we've seen over the past 3 months.
 
RedBaron6 said:
There's nothing to "get over". Simply making observations on this pre-existing thread about the ridiculous and over the top nature of the hype.
Cheesehead don't you worry about the boys milking this for all its' worth. Sully was hiring an agent to sell his story before his uniform had dried out. That's why I made the comments I did earlier about those 3 truly heroic pilots and how they view this milking exercise we've seen over the past 3 months.
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That is total BS. These guys got chased and harassed to go on the air. If you remember those two - actually the whole crew - didn't say a word for weeks and it drove the media nuts.

So they finally get debriefed and clearance and start granting interviews and guys like you say they were in in it for the publicity. Both Scully and Skiles said from the beginning that they just wanted to get back to work and they planned on doing that ASAP. If they hadn't you'd be one the ones screaming why didn't they give their side of the story and what are they hiding.

So many of the calls they get are from agents hammering them to manage the barrage and get some cash for the kids, and when they agree you call them arrogant mercenaries.

You're wrong.

They managed the onslaught very well by my take.
 
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RedBaron6 said:
It's not a low blow at all. It's the truth! Skiles is running around taking bows when he played absolutely no role in landing that plane or saving anyone on that flight.
Sully deserves great credit for sticking a beautiful water landing when he had perfect weather/river conditions and no other options. That's also the truth!
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If Sullenberger had failed to put that bird down safely, the FO would be just as responsible as far as the public was concerned. That was a team effort since both were using CRM to accomplish the task. Was it Sullenberger who did the actual landing? Yes. But, do you think he could have pulled it off as well while still making a restart attempt on his own? Not likely.
 
(shakes head in amazement)
 
mikea said:
That is total BS. These guys got chased and harassed to go on the air. If you remember those two - actually the whole crew - didn't say a word for weeks and it drove the media nuts.
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Oh please! Just stop with this revisionist history. Sully and Co. didn't say a word for weeks because they had cut an "exclusive" interview with Katie Couric and CBS and were sworn to media silence until it aired. There wasn't enough star power in simply calling a press conference and talking to the media en masse. Interestingly CBS is affiliated with the publishing house that signed up Sully to write his life (gulp) story.
A quid pro quo?
Now why would anyone think there is anything mercenary and self serving in their handling of this?

So they finally get debriefed and clearance and start granting interviews and guys like you say they were in in it for the publicity.
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They were debriefed and given clearance to speak long before their "exclusive" interview on CBS was aired.

Both Scully and Skiles said from the beginning that they just wanted to get back to work and they planned on doing that ASAP.
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Then why aren't they back to work?? Neither was injured and they had no emotional trauma from passenger/crew deaths to deal with. How long did it take Cronin, Haynes and Schornstheimer, who did have trauma and death to deal with, to get back to work??
But then again those 3 heroic pilots weren't looking to milk their experiences for personal/monetary gain.

If they hadn't you'd be one the ones screaming why didn't they give their side of the story and what are they hiding.
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Actually they were hiding from the rest of the media while waiting for CBS to air their "exclusive".

So many of the calls they get are from agents hammering them to manage the barrage and get some cash for the kids, and when they agree you call them arrogant mercenaries.
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I never once referred to them as arrogant or mercenaries in my prior posts yet YOU have come up with that description. Your subconscious is speaking the truth. Listen to it!
 
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KennyFlys said:
If Sullenberger had failed to put that bird down safely, the FO would be just as responsible as far as the public was concerned. That was a team effort since both were using CRM to accomplish the task. Was it Sullenberger who did the actual landing? Yes. But, do you think he could have pulled it off as well while still making a restart attempt on his own? Not likely.
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Come on Kenny you're really reaching here in trying to justify Skiles hero status. I'm sure in his quiet moments even Jeff must feel a bit embarrassed with the hype. By the way the public would not have held the crew responsible had Sully not been able to pull off that water landing. There was no blame to be had if there had been a different outcome. They had no other options but the river.
 
RedBaron6 said:
Oh please! Just stop with this revisionist history. Sully and Co. didn't say a word for weeks because they had cut an "exclusive" interview with Katie Couric and CBS and were sworn to media silence until it aired. There wasn't enough star power in simply calling a press conference and talking to the media en masse. Interestingly CBS is affiliated with the publishing house that signed up Sully to write his life (gulp) story. Now why would anyone think there is anything mercenery and self serving in their handling of this?

...
They were debriefed and given clearance to speak long before their "exclusve" interview on CBS was aired.
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You have the detailed timeline?

Memo to self;

To-do

  1. Ditch the jet
  2. Clear the cabin (optional)
  3. Call agent on cell
  4. Media blitz
  5. Ghost write book
  6. Media blitz
  7. Profit!!!

RedBaron6 said:
I never once referred to them as arrogant or mercenaries in my prior posts yet YOU have come up with that description. Your subconscious is speaking the truth. Listen to it!
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song-chart-memes-online-comments.jpg
 
RedBaron6 said:
Come on Kenny you're really reaching here in trying to justify Skiles hero status. I'm sure in his quiet moments even Jeff must feel a bit embarrassed with the hype. By the way the public would not have held the crew responsible had Sully not been able to pull off that water landing. There was no blame to be had if there had been a different outcome. They had no other options but the river.
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I'm not justifying his hero status. I'm stating he played a much larger role than you state. His presence and his job was just as important considering the dual role in handling such an aircraft in this incident.

By the way, you don't think it's possilble for either of these two to be dealing with this issue in their own way? This may be their only incident in their entire career and it had the potential of killing everyone on their aircraft. If your heart, mind and soul isn't forcing you to take some time to reflect on this, you just may not be human.

Something tells me you probably think James Polehinke probably should have gone on and died with everyone else in Comair 191.
 
Well, pretty much all the opinions have been made known. Debate beyond this point is pointless.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Well, pretty much all the opinions have been made known. Debate beyond this point is pointless.
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Greg, it has not been legitimate "debate" for quite a while, now has it?
 
I just thought of one aspect that made the story cool and facinating to mere mortals like David Letterman. We know that the crew pretty much did as they were trained with the skill and a little luck that Scully had glider experience, but if you step back a few paces it is amazing how all of that comes together to bring a complex problem to a successful solution.

For example; Many civilians are taken by how calm Scully was was. "My plane." We know that isn't an aberation. You fly the plane.

Civilians are shaken that mere birds can bring down a jet, which they want to think are just a bus or train with wings.

We can understand how it looks like a miracle. It was a miracle. It's just not as mystical to us.
 
mikea said:
You have the detailed timeline?

Memo to self;

To-do

  1. Ditch the jet
  2. Clear the cabin (optional)
  3. Call agent on cell
  4. Media blitz
  5. Ghost write book
  6. Media blitz
  7. Profit!!!
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ha ha ha ha ha ....your list is much closer to the truth than the "we just want to get back to work as soon as possible" spin.
By the way the two quotes of mine you highlighted where I used the word mercenary were from the same post on the same day and in response to YOU using that word to describe Sully and Skiles. Nice try though!!
 
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KennyFlys said:
I'm not justifying his hero status. I'm stating he played a much larger role than you state. His presence and his job was just as important considering the dual role in handling such an aircraft in this incident.

By the way, you don't think it's possilble for either of these two to be dealing with this issue in their own way? This may be their only incident in their entire career and it had the potential of killing everyone on their aircraft. If your heart, mind and soul isn't forcing you to take some time to reflect on this, you just may not be human.

Something tells me you probably think James Polehinke probably should have gone on and died with everyone else in Comair 191.
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Kenny. Skiles himself was quoted in a Wisconsin paper that he's been delayed in getting back to work not because of psychological reasons but because he's been too busy making public appearances on his hero tour. How laughable is that?
All I can do is judge these guys based on what they say and do. There has been a serious lack of modesty and humility with Mr. Sullenberger and Mr. Skiles. These two should meet up with ship Capt. Richard Phillips. Now there's a real life hero in deed and in word.
 
mikea said:
I just thought of one aspect that made the story cool and facinating to mere mortals like David Letterman. We know that the crew pretty much did as they were trained with the skill and a little luck that Scully had glider experience, but if you step back a few paces it is amazing how all of that comes together to bring a complex problem to a successful solution.

For example; Many civilians are taken by how calm Scully was was. "My plane." We know that isn't an aberation. You fly the plane.

Civilians are shaken that mere birds can bring down a jet, which they want to think are just a bus or train with wings.

We can understand how it looks like a miracle. It was a miracle. It's just not as mystical to us.
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Agree with your larger point about the public but strongly disagree on calling it a miracle.
What happened with A320 was a rarity, as water landings/attempts are, but not a miracle and a huge segment of the aviation community agrees with me.
These aviation message boards, while generally presenting a unified kool-aid drinking front for the general public when topics like this come up, do not reflect the actual vibe within Aviation nation concerning this event and the over the top and ridiculous PR fallout from it. My view on A320's water landing and the crews post landing behavior is widely shared. Sully might sell some books but I guarantee it won't be other pilots buying it. :D
The miracle label is pure media hype. Most pilots, when given the same optimum weather/wind/river conditions and applying their training and procedures would have made a successful water landing here. Might not have been picture perfect but they would have gotten the job done.
This was an aviation rarity!
This was not an aviation miracle!
 
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Michael, perhaps you are right; let us adopt that solely for the sake of discussion.

Is it so troubling to allow those who (rightly or wrongly) believe that the achievement of a successful water landing and evacuation is, at the very least, a remarkable thing? There is something very appealing about a circumstance where, after things went very badly (and losing both mills on climb-out from LGA is by any measure bad), the crew managed to salvage a very good result.

In any evaluation of performance of people, the ultimate conclusion, being made by humans, will never be as good (in some respects), or as bad (in others) as is appropriate. What matters greatly is that we evaluate each event and mine from it as much of the useful information it has to offer as possible.

And, if it makes people feel good to drape 1549's crew with laurels, what harm from this ensues?
 
SCCutler said:
And, if it makes people feel good to drape 1549's crew with laurels, what harm from this ensues?
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Bingo, Spike. This has been a GOOD thing for aviation. If nothing else, it got Sully and Skiles in front of congress to tell them what's happening to the aviation industry.

And isn't it about time there was some GOOD news coverage in aviation? Doesn't happen nearly enough.

So, I think I'm going to kill the troll again.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Bingo, Spike. This has been a GOOD thing for aviation. If nothing else, it got Sully and Skiles in front of congress to tell them what's happening to the aviation industry.

And isn't it about time there was some GOOD news coverage in aviation? Doesn't happen nearly enough.

So, I think I'm going to kill the troll again.
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RedBaron6 said:
These aviation message boards, while generally presenting a unified kool-aid drinking front for the general public when topics like this come up, do not reflect the actual vibe within Aviation nation
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We in aviation nation all know we can fly gooder than that guy with the stripes making $250,000 but they only pay us $24,000 because he got an agent. We all know it's not fair!
 

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