Unsafe Flight- Watch it HERE!

Henning said:
Since this thread is seeming to make all the boards, I'll just quote my response from the Red Board...



As for all the "Punch his lights out" and "Whistle Blowing".... well, that makes me sick... The fact is he did nothing particularly dangerous and he was always positioned for making a safe landing. That so many people considered this so dangerous leads me to question the knowledge and abilities of those making the comments.
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Could you provide me with a picture of said cattle?

And why would his wife say "that's how he flies all the time" in a mildly derogatory tone without any mention of a practical use for that type of flying? And it wasn't just the cameraman making comments about his flying, it was everyone around him.

I understand that my "punch his lights out" comment was a bit harsh, but that's just not smart OR safe flying.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
Henning,

How many folks do those sorts of things in a rented 172? I'm guessing approximately none. Sure, it *could* be the best pilot in the world, but I think the chances are much higher that this is just some idiot who doesn't know what the hell he's doing. :(
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If he didn't know what he was doing, he would have crashed....
 
Henning said:
If he didn't know what he was doing, he would have crashed....
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I'm with you on that. There is no way he was just lucky enough to push the envelope that far over and over in that video. If he was a terrible stick he might have gotten lucky and managed a small part of that video. But that was intentional envelope pushing show off and scare the people on the ground type flying.

That really was not the place to be doing that kind of ****. He was about as close to the edge as you could get in a few of those spots. I'd rather him not do that **** in front of a bunch of unknowing people. Unacceptable.
 
my 2 pesados

looked like a Flying Farmer routine, which been around since ex-WWI Jennies were flown by ex-military barnstormers

it was at an airport, not necessarily in front of unsuspecting observers


I was at an airshow recently that had a very mediocre Extra pilot, but the crowd still ooo'ed every time he clumsily rolled inverted.

its all about perception
 
Henning said:
If he didn't know what he was doing, he would have crashed....
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Plus he would have scared himself so badly after the first touch and go or whatever that was that he wouldn't have come back for more shenanigans. Personally I think the pilot was a jerk who was trying to scare the people on the ground by making them think he was going to crash.
 
Henning said:
No, he's flying like on an average day of work mustering cattle.
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2 probs:

1. There's no cattle.
2. Even if there were cattle, herding cattle doesn't excuse the FARs for overflight of people, buildings, and vehicles.

Bust him.
 
So was landing really hot and long part of his exceptional piloting skills?
 
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FlyNE said:
So was landing really hot and long part of his exceptional piloting skills?
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Really hot, THREE point landing.

I'm sorry but even if he was a hot pilot showing off his remarkable cattle herding skills in a rented 172 he still, as Nick noted, violated FARs by operating so close to the crowd. That alone makes him unsafe.
 
Doesn't matter. The local Keystone Kops and Kangaroo Kourt have rendered their verdict and have sprung into action.

Kelvin said:
Who knows...just thought that point should enter the discussion...
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smigaldi said:
And the target is behind the trees or is it where all the planes are parked?
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No, no, no...

It's under the power lines! :yes: :cheerswine:

I noticed the flour bombing comment. That can explain some of the maneuvers, but not all of them nor the concerns of the other pilots. And yes, I say pilots, not just observers, because you can hear one of them talking about the incorrect crosswind inputs during a landing during which he was along for the ride, where he had to get on the controls and interfere to keep the plane under control (in his opinion).
 
When I look at this video I see a flying farmer routine. Even the comments sound put on for the sake of the finished video, repeating over and over that he always fly's this way...
 
iflyatiger said:
When I look at this video I see a flying farmer routine. Even the comments sound put on for the sake of the finished video, repeating over and over that he always fly's this way...
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In a rented airplane?
 
:dunno:
There's a lot about why he was doing what he was doing that puzzles me... but based only on the flying I see in that clip, I don't think this was someone who was not fully in control. And I don't get the repeated mention of the flaps- Flying a 172 like that clean would probably be really stupid (notice how slow it's going throughout). He never tries to climb very much or go very fast, and 30 degrees is not just for landing, despite the most common usage: that'll also help you fly very slowly, with adequate control. With experience, you can do a lot with that plane in that configuration, and quite safely. But I do hope this guy knew the strip and environs well... that would not be a good thing to improvise, I think. Not much margin to deal with surprises.

Maybe the pilot has "a history", maybe not... but I only see some edgy low 'n' slow maneuvering that appears calculated to scare onlookers

Kind of inconsiderate to buzz unsuspecting folks after making them think you'd almost crashed, but it wasn't that low, IMHO. Illegal, maybe, but not hazardous.
 
One of the guys on AOPA claims to know one of the onlookers pictured. He says it's not staged, and the pilot really is that bad.
http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?p=1056980#post1056980
Personally, I'd rather the FAA spend time investigating, only to find it's a hoax or a well-choreographed stunt (in which case there'd be a waiver, right) than to presume it's perfectly safe and have someone killed.

When I saw a guy getting out of his car on the off-ramp, wandering around looking drunk, and then getting back in his car and trying to go down the off-ramp onto the expressway the wrong way, you'd better believe that I erred on the side of caution and called the cops. This doesn't seem very different to me, other than the immediacy of it.
 
rottydaddy said:
And I don't get the repeated mention of the flaps- Flying a 172 like that clean would probably be really stupid (notice how slow it's going throughout). He never tries to climb very much or go very fast, and 30 degrees is not just for landing, despite the most common usage: that'll also help you fly very slowly, with adequate control. With experience, you can do a lot with that plane in that configuration, and quite safely.
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I think the mention that it was "at least 30" didn't mean so much that the person who posted the video thought the left-seat occupier should have been clean, but that he should have been at 20 degrees - At least that's how I took it. Past 20 degrees, the flaps really don't do anything for stall, they simply increase drag.
 
I'm hoping Henning, who seems to know just about everything, can instruct us on which FARs we can safely break.
 
rottydaddy said:
:dunno:
There's a lot about why he was doing what he was doing that puzzles me... but based only on the flying I see in that clip, I don't think this was someone who was not fully in control. And I don't get the repeated mention of the flaps- Flying a 172 like that clean would probably be really stupid (notice how slow it's going throughout). He never tries to climb very much or go very fast, and 30 degrees is not just for landing, despite the most common usage: that'll also help you fly very slowly, with adequate control. With experience, you can do a lot with that plane in that configuration, and quite safely. But I do hope this guy knew the strip and environs well... that would not be a good thing to improvise, I think. Not much margin to deal with surprises.

Maybe the pilot has "a history", maybe not... but I only see some edgy low 'n' slow maneuvering that appears calculated to scare onlookers

Kind of inconsiderate to buzz unsuspecting folks after making them think you'd almost crashed, but it wasn't that low, IMHO. Illegal, maybe, but not hazardous.
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Isn't there a ruling somewhere that a "congested area" is several people on a beach?
:confused:

Also -- IIRC, up to 20 degrees in 172s reduces stall speed -- any additional after that merely increases drag with little to no decrease in stall speed...

:dunno:
 
Yeah, and none of us in here have ever flown within 500' people on the ground without the intention to land. Well I suppose a couple of stick up their posterior types might fall into the never have category, but I know for fact that a few in here saying "bust him" have done near the exact same thing, only under a "safer" perception.
 
I got a VERY open and frank email about the circumstances of the flight and names of the individuals involved, from the wife of the pilot (who was in the plane with him during the flight) and she thanks us for "giving [her] the platform to open a dialog with my husband to air my concerns about his maneuvers on that particular day".

Her husband has over 600 hours of MEL experience (owns and flies a 310). She said her husband has agreed to review his manner of flying the 172, and the video contents, with 'more experienced pilots whose opinion he respects' and that 'should and FAA inspector contact us, [he] will respond with the appropriate, respectful, red-blooded American pilot, EMT, carpenter/handyman, guardsman/veteran attitude', though she admits that her own reaction to his flight was 'inclined to be more violent'.

According to her, the person who recorded the video is an ATC controller; in his own words, he said that "I won't be calling FSDO. We in ATC, especially those of us that are pilots, don't want to be lumped in with the long arm of the FAA law. We have a reputation as being the good guys of the FAA in our local area, and want to keep it that way."

The “wife” speaking in the video is not the pilot’'s spouse-she was in the plane. The voice in the video is suspected to belong to the wife of a recently certificated pilot who learned in 79079 before its new engine and joined the flying pilot on a day-trip a few months ago.

Sounds like everybody involved has the right attitude--concern for safety, doing the right thing, helping a fellow aviator if indeed he needs such help (which we don't know, if we don't ask).
 
EdFred said:
Yeah, and none of us in here have ever flown within 500' people on the ground without the intention to land. Well I suppose a couple of stick up their posterior types might fall into the never have category, but I know for fact that a few in here saying "bust him" have done near the exact same thing, only under a "safer" perception.
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I am not squeaky-clean by any standard, but I am not proud of my own transgressions and would not encourage their repetition by anyone.
 
EdFred said:
Yeah, and none of us in here have ever flown within 500' people on the ground without the intention to land. Well I suppose a couple of stick up their posterior types might fall into the never have category, but I know for fact that a few in here saying "bust him" have done near the exact same thing, only under a "safer" perception.
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I see a big difference between a low pass at a fly in and a low pass, followed by flight at the edge of the envelope, under power lines, behind trees, etc. right next to a group of pilots.

But maybe I'm just a sissy, and don't think that flying a 172 under powerlines is a smart or safe move.
 
SkyHog said:
But maybe I'm just a sissy, and don't think that flying a 172 under powerlines is a smart or safe move.
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Well..it is a pretty simple thing to do. The issue isn't really that one can't fly under power-lines safely. The issue is that there is a time, place, and reason to be flying under power-lines. ****ing around with a bunch of unknowing people on the ground and a scared wife in the cockpit really isn't any of the above.

An appropriate time to be playing with power lines:
under.jpg

over.jpg


As you can tell -- if you have to be close to power lines it is much easier to go under than it is to go over. This guy really had no reason to be doing that sort of stuff there.
 
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SkyHog said:
I see a big difference between a low pass at a fly in and a low pass, followed by flight at the edge of the envelope, under power lines, behind trees, etc. right next to a group of pilots.

But maybe I'm just a sissy, and don't think that flying a 172 under powerlines is a smart or safe move.
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How do you think they inspect the underside of the power lines out west??

Sheese....

:rolleyes:
 
Does anyone besides me remember a shot in the video where he had an apparent bank well in excess of 60* close to the ground? Can't analyze it anymore, and it could have been an illusion, but...
 
SkyHog said:
I see a big difference between a low pass at a fly in and a low pass, followed by flight at the edge of the envelope, under power lines, behind trees, etc. right next to a group of pilots.

But maybe I'm just a sissy, and don't think that flying a 172 under powerlines is a smart or safe move.
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FAR is a FAR is a FAR...
 
I have the video still available should anyone NEED to see it. This guy can't get away that easily.
 
video's been yanked, by the user. post your own flight and then pull it down spike? why?
 
Wait, was it, in fact, posted to Youtube by Spike? If so, I'll destroy the copy I have as well.
 
Henning said:
Come to Australia, it's an everyday thing, especially out in Western Australia.
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In what type of aircraft? Seriously...most of what I have heard about is done in Aeronca's, or Maule, or other type of great low-slow aircraft.

Dude come on, this is not some typical buzz-job. Watch that video Henning....while I admit we need a bit more information to truly judge, the video itself is pretty damning.

This is the problem with "self policing", so many are so willing to just look the other way for fear that someone might misinterpret their own flying and turn them in.

Only after we have a smoking hole in the ground does someone say "why did no one do anything?".
 
tdager said:
In what type of aircraft? Seriously...most of what I have heard about is done in Aeronca's, or Maule, or other type of great low-slow aircraft.
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And even when such flights are performed with the appropriate aircraft by highly trained and experiences pilots, they frequently crash and burn. Not a part of the flight envelope I care to explore myself.
 
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